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#100559 - 08/08/12 03:27 PM Wheel bearing play/tolerance
NorthernMogman Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/11/10
Posts: 719
Loc: Yorkshire
I have just taken my 4/4 sport for it's first MOT.

Seems a bit daft as it is just like a brand new car, but it has now covered close to 10,000 miles so it was interesting to see if anything was flagged up by the tester.

Apart from putting a smile on the faces of my local village garage...and some joking remarks from one or too young mechanics working there (they still have much to learn about real cars oldgit), one thing that was remarked on was the slight play in all the wheel bearings.
For some technical reason (VOSA website), they couldn't call up the official advisory data on any 4/4 after 1985, so they could not tell if the play exceeded the advisory data for this model. They did however, note that there was no uneven tyre wear that would indicate any serious concerns, so the car was passed with an advisory on the bearing play, just to 'cover their backs', so to say.

I was wondering if I should be concerned about any bearing play ?
The car has recently been serviced at a Morgan service centre, and they seemed pretty thorough to me, so I would have expected them to have checked and adjusted accordingly as part of the service.

Any thoughts or suggestions ?
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Morgan 4/4 Sport
Moto Guzzi Daytona 1000 Racing
Harley Davidson XR1200

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#100575 - 08/08/12 04:50 PM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: NorthernMogman]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Yorkshire
Bearing play can be nipped up, but it depends how the split pin holes match the nut. The chances are that it's been adjusted properly, then backed off to the first available match. This is preferable to too tight.
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Red Roadster

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#100576 - 08/08/12 05:06 PM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: DaveW]
Dean-Royal Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 1811
Loc: UK (up north)
As DaveW suggested if Taper Bearings, they are adjustable and in sum cases the stub Axle will have 2 x holes runing through Top/bottom and Side to side, however if you look closely you will see the holes are slightly off set, allowing for the choice of which the Slot or (Castle) as it is some times known to align with the nearest hole.
(not sure if this is the case on your Morgan)

when tightening we were taught not to use the standard wrench spanner on these nuts, but to only tighten with plyers, hence when the Plyers slipped, the nut is tight enough, it is then the advise you turn it back (anticlockwise) to align with the hole then slot the Pin through (new one please)

When serving your apprentership under your Father remember not to use a spanner on this operation, as a size 11 comes hurtling towards your Ars at 90 mile per hour and a loud screem to tell you "dont Fu****g tighten them like that"

I am sure those on TM that have the knowledge to apply a diagram of the bearing set up maybe able to add this to assist.


Edited by Dean-Royal (08/08/12 05:10 PM)
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#100595 - 08/08/12 06:48 PM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: Dean-Royal]
Martyn Culling Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 525
Loc: Snorbans, UK
As a rule, that sort of bearing you do up, make sure everything is seated, undo, do up again to something like 20 foot pounds and slacken off to the first split pin hole or perhaps the second one if the bearing is binding. (As above - there are two holes in the axle, so that with the castellated nut the bearing should easily find a comfortable home).

I do them by feel, there is a book figure but really it's so simple most real mechanics will do the same.

Crucially though a correctly set wheel bearing will have the tiniest and detectable amount of free play. If it hasn't you risk the bearing seizing when the assembly heats up and in extremis, the wheel and hub fall off! There is a picture where this has occurred to a German +8 in Colin Musgrove's book, 'Moggie'.

Given all this, quite plausible nothing needs adjusting and the MOT tester doesn't know his bearings. I'd still check with a Morgan dealer if you are unsure though as I've not felt the play in your car and am assuming it's the same type of bearing as fitted to 1972 car.

Certainly on some modern cars (Mercs) there is no free play on a front wheel bearing by design. So the tester quite literally might never have met one of the Morgan types.
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1930 Super Sport Aero 'The Elk'

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#100607 - 08/08/12 07:51 PM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: Martyn Culling]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Yorkshire
My Roadster has tapers. The Golf Mk1V has massive double race plain bearings, which as Martyn says has no play.
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Red Roadster

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#100636 - 08/08/12 11:12 PM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: DaveW]
NorthernMogman Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/11/10
Posts: 719
Loc: Yorkshire
Ok thanks everyone for confirming my same thoughts on the subject. Puts my mind at rest.

It's good to be assured by those who have been kicked up the ar*e by teacher dad. Not conventional teaching practice, but at least you don't forget the important bits.

I was not quite so 'fortunate' as your good selves, as my father was not too mechanically minded so as to dish out advice in such a self assured way...but I can say that I inherited his charm and good looks ! laugh2
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Morgan 4/4 Sport
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#100638 - 08/08/12 11:27 PM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: NorthernMogman]
Taffmog Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 22/09/10
Posts: 117
Loc: Wales
Whilst we are on Wheel bearings does anyone know the refs. or application for the plus 8 roller taper fronts? My car has just come back from a full service by a Morgan specialist and both front wheels have very noisy bearings, but little play. All was well before the service. I thought that if I am going to strip the bearings to grease them I may as well replace them.
Early 4/4's etc. used Ford Anglia front bearings.

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#100645 - 09/08/12 07:23 AM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: Taffmog]
Dean-Royal Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 1811
Loc: UK (up north)
Originally Posted By: Taffmog
Whilst we are on Wheel bearings does anyone know the refs. or application for the plus 8 roller taper fronts? My car has just come back from a full service by a Morgan specialist and both front wheels have very noisy bearings, but little play. All was well before the service. I thought that if I am going to strip the bearings to grease them I may as well replace them.
Early 4/4's etc. used Ford Anglia front bearings.


Its possible someone who has not been Kicked up the a++ as adjusted them to tight on your service !!! this would give an immediate effect of noise.
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33 MAX v SPIDERMAN

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#100718 - 09/08/12 05:13 PM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: Dean-Royal]
Fjemog Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 102
Loc: Yorkshire
I would concur with Dean-Royal and Martyn Culling on adjusting bearings. However I would add that while tightening (with your pliers!), remember to spin the hub to ensure the rollers are fully seated against the shoulder of the inner races.

See this link for the proper Timken way: http://www.timken.com/en-us/solutions/au...N_Vol1_Iss3.pdf

By the way the Timken rep always used to tick me off for calling them taper roller bearings - thay are tapered roller bearings!
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Fjemog

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#100777 - 10/08/12 08:14 AM Re: Wheel bearing play/tolerance [Re: Fjemog]
Martyn Culling Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 525
Loc: Snorbans, UK
Please tighten and loosen nuts with a spanner! Rounded and damaged nuts when folk don't have the right spanner annoy the heck out of me.

The fact the wheel bearing nut is not done up tightly does help, but all Morgan owners should have a large adjustable spanner and that would more than do.

No need to go as potty as I did buying one of these:
http://www.tooled-up.com/ManProduct.asp?PID=776

But the spanner does fit the huge hub nuts a disc wheel Morgan has. Also the hub nuts on my three wheeler.
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1930 Super Sport Aero 'The Elk'

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