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#170493 - 11/12/13 05:24 PM 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7
Bluesman Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 4
I have owned 2 lotus - Caterham Super 7's (one standard and one wide body SV model)and I really enjoyed them for what they were. I actually commuted (in the US) with goggles and earplugs one for almost a year. I have since sold them and now own a Lotus Elise SC.

I love the feel of light fast cars and I was wondering if any of you have owned or driven sevens of any brand and if you can comment from hand's-on experience on how they compare to the Morgan 3 wheeler driving experience. Handling, power, feel, noise level, wind buffeting, general enjoyment, etc.

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#170506 - 11/12/13 07:41 PM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: Bluesman]
PeterG Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 24/09/12
Posts: 771
Loc: Essex
Welcome TM

Never had a Caterham but a couple of guys on here have them as well as a 3W. They maybe able to help you.

Plus there was this video review a while back.

http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php...deos#Post137931

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#170509 - 11/12/13 07:50 PM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: Bluesman]
RedThree Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/10/12
Posts: 595
Loc: Furry Boots City
Remarkably similar to each other whilst being completely different.
We should all have one of each.
All I need now is the money and the garage space.
_________________________
Calum
Staying back on the road.

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#170512 - 11/12/13 08:20 PM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: PeterG]
Bluesman Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 4
I had watched the video on Drive previously. Great fun!

Any owners with first hand experience?

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#170515 - 11/12/13 08:51 PM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: RedThree]
St Eve Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 14/10/12
Posts: 332
Loc: Bedfordshire, UK
Originally Posted By: RedThree
We should all have one of each. All I need now is ... the garage space.

When I traded in my Super 7 for what I drive now (see below) I commented to the dealer that I wish I could have both. He replied that I wouldn't have time to do either of them justice and he was probably right. I much prefer the Morgan and feel that I have at last grown up (apologies to other Caterham owners). Drives are now less frantic and I can take passengers in comfort. However, I was at first thrown by having to "haul" the steering of the Morgan, rather than just "twitch" it as I did in the 7. And the joy of arriving at a roundabout (assuming no other traffic) at 50-60mph and not having to slow down was exhilarating to say the least. Sorry to say I have no experience, but I guess a M3W would provide a similar thrill.
_________________________
Steve
2010 Plus 4, 4-seater, 2.0 Duratec, Baby Blue

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#170525 - 11/12/13 09:46 PM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: Bluesman]
donaldosaurus Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 1225
Loc: Dumfries and Galloway
I had an S7 until a year ago but only a 1600 vauxhall one. I have to say that the M3W is better on almost every department. I liked the roof and the doors though.
_________________________
4/4 Sigma, ex M3W, Range Rover Sport V8. A French Clio Cup 182.

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#170527 - 11/12/13 10:03 PM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: Bluesman]
R1NGA Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 344
Loc: Guildford, UK
Although I have not owned a Se7en, we have had many amongst friends and family and I feel I can comment (the nearest I got was 10 years owning a 1974 Europa JPS Special, which was also rather good).

My most recent comparison is with my brother's 1999 Classic Se7en - a live axle, 100bhp 8v 1.6 Vauxhall engined car on 14" wheels. His car is much the same in terms of performance - what he loses out to the M3W in torquey punch out of corners, he makes up for later with greater top-end shove. Grip is similar, as he has the very tough Avon 175's on his car which are built for mileage, not corner speed. Whilst the M3W has less grip in bends than the Se7en, his car slides in a nicely balanced way, much as does the Morgan. So on a give and take drive on flowing A and B roads in the UK, they are very similar...... and therefore great fun as you don't need to be doing license-busting speeds to have a ball.

Steering is initially very similar in my experience. Initial reaction and turn-in at speed are the same - sensitive steering, little required movement of the wheel to get the car to begin arc'ing into the apex - but that's where the similarities stop. As cornering loads increase on the front tyres, the M3W starts to scrub wide as grip is relinquished when the tall sidewalls begin to fold under, where as the Se7en just scythes its way through to exactly where you wanted it to go. The M3W responds remarkably well to increased steering angle and actually holds on very well all things considered (particularly when on track or VERY smooth tarmac with lifted tyre pressures), given the width of the fronts.

Exiting the bend is also different. The Se7en pilot simply needs to back off the lock gently and the car unwinds to the exit exactly as you want. The M3W driver needs to carefully meter out the unwind though, as the car will do some of that for you as the tyres also unwind when the sidewalls spring back to their normal shape.

Ride comfort is better in the M3W, but you're far more exposed and buffeted around. Se7ens have heaters too and with the roof on they make tolerable winter fun cars too - M3W's need hardy types for all year round use.

Se7ens don't bumpsteer all over the place either, but we know why (check out their true double-wishbone and steering geometry....!) but that's now going to be easily fixed, so no need to worry there any more. The Morgan also gets far more looks.

I had the choice and went M3W and haven't looked back to be honest. But if you wanted to spend more time on track I'd take the Se7en, otherwise have the bigger laugh in the Morgan and become part of this very helpful, informative and above all lively forum!

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#170532 - 11/12/13 11:25 PM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: R1NGA]
PaulJ Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 16/10/11
Posts: 1633
Loc: Somerset, UK
Having owned Sevens since 1985, coninuously, I do have some thoughts on the subject, but as I am catching up over breakfast, in WA, I cannot write much at present, my wife takes a dim view of me "spending hours on the computer"
as it is.

I shall follow the thread with interest, and contribute when I can.
_________________________
Paul
Caramel M3W, yellow Caterham, red MINI, white Macgregor 26M, silver Powabyke X, yellow Stiga4wd

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#170534 - 12/12/13 01:32 AM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: Bluesman]
Crowbar Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/03/13
Posts: 329
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
I feel somewhat capable of providing some information on the subject, as a good friend of mine is an owner of a Duratec powered Caterham, and I spend a lot of time tracking my 997 with the Lotus group here in Houston, and have had a bit of seat time in many flavors of 7's and Elise's on the track.

Frankly, I'm baffled by the common comparison of the M3W and the Caterham. The only things the two cars share is the fact that they are small, British, and impractical. This hasn't stopped the press (Top Gear, Fifth Gear, etc.) from providing wonderfully enjoyable comparisons that make for great entertainment, but aren't particularly instructive.

The Caterham is a track day weapon, bred with it's first priority being handling. The car is responsive, dynamic, fast, and unforgiving. It appeals to those who value the driving experience first and foremost. They are iconic but ugly (sorry hide ), without any concessions to styling whatsoever. This is part of their appeal, I love them, and would love to own one someday, but they are a specialized tool for a specific task - driving quickly and precisely.

The Morgan 3 Wheeler isn't any of the things the Caterham is. It really doesn't handle all that well, it isn't particularly fast, and it's 3 wheel geometry is fundamentally flawed. The Morgan has no place on the track at all, BUT it has more character and style in it's left front wheel that an entire Porsche Panemera. The Morgan is for owners who want to be different. It's for folks who want to drive at moderate speeds around town, or through the countryside and have more fun doing so than most anyone else. The Morgan is for the owner who would also like to own an MGA or Austin Healey 100-4 (Sorry, I'm not a fan of the 3000's innocent)' but who doesn't want the headache of owning a 60 year old rust bucket). I think the Morgan appeals to folk who want a vintage experience in modern guise. On nice days, I'll take my Morgan to work (local drive, no highways) in a heartbeat over my 997 Turbo. It get to talk to car people about the car at every gas station and stoplight, and I draw a crowd whenever I park. No one ever wants to talk about my Porsche...

So there you go, my 2 cents...
_________________________
Houston, Texas USA
997 Turbo Cab, M3W gunmetal over red quilted, MotoLita

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#170558 - 12/12/13 07:09 AM Re: 3 Wheeler compared to Caterham Super seven 7 [Re: Bluesman]
Black Adder Offline
Toys for Boys
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 14/06/10
Posts: 290
Loc: France
"The Morgan has no place on the track at all, BUT it has more character and style in it's left front wheel that an entire Porsche Panemera. The Morgan is for owners who want to be different. It's for folks who want to drive at moderate speeds around town, or through the countryside and have more fun doing so than most anyone else."

As the owner of a Panamera and a M3W I can certainly agree with that, however I know which one to choose for a 1000km run across Europe.

Horses for courses as they say.
_________________________
13 M3W - 09 Roadster V6 - Panamera Diesel

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