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P4 SS ...emissions failure.? #256234
01/03/15 09:24 AM
01/03/15 09:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,077
Derbyshire .England.
MR11MOG Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
MR11MOG  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,077
Derbyshire .England.
My P4SS is due for its first MOT on March the 28th.
I have always had running problems from day one re hesitation and exhaust smells ie.running rich .
It went back to the Factory last year and had the engine settings re done under warranty.
The car ran much better but was still too Rich in my opinion with black exhaust tail pipe and fumes coming in to the car .
I ran it for the summer with a view to sorting it out over the winter.
I contacted Omex who designed and supplied the system fitted to the car on about 5 occasions in November and December to ask if they would check the car on there rolling road ,Guy I think was the chap who designed the system for Morgan,eventually I was told that they don't deal with the public and to contact Williams .
I spoke to Henry in December with a view to trying to resolve the problem with Omex .
However I have heard nothing since December.
I took my car for a pre MOT yesterday 28 th Feb and it failed the test on emissions
Hydrocarbons read 750 pm at 2000 revs and they need to be 200 or less ???
So unable to get an Mot .
The ECU is sealed so no remap can be done So I'm in a bit of a spot .





Peter.

Roadster ARV6 3.7 Prosecco.
Riley RMB 2.5
VW Corrado 1.8 16V.
1968 Wolseley Hornet.
Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: MR11MOG] #256240
01/03/15 09:47 AM
01/03/15 09:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 891
Aberdeenshire
E
Eddie Cairns Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Eddie Cairns  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
E

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 891
Aberdeenshire
That sounds like a mechanical problem to me.

I would do a compression test next rather than chase an ECU fault or maybe coil pack, leads, plugs.

Says he who sorted a cutting out 92 MX5 for a friend yesterday for it to then refuse to start 10 minutes later.

eddie

Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: MR11MOG] #256241
01/03/15 09:54 AM
01/03/15 09:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,292
Dorset, UK
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
milligoon  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,292
Dorset, UK
Sounds almost like it's stuck on auto choke?

The air filter is totally clean I take it?


Mark - No Longer driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink
Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: MR11MOG] #256246
01/03/15 10:25 AM
01/03/15 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,361
South West England
C
Chunky4/4Racer Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Chunky4/4Racer  Offline
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C

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,361
South West England
I'll send you a pm


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Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: MR11MOG] #256247
01/03/15 10:26 AM
01/03/15 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,077
Derbyshire .England.
MR11MOG Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
MR11MOG  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,077
Derbyshire .England.
It's had the problem since new..
My local Omex tuning place did a rolling road check for me and said it was a set up issue injectors too big and ECU needed a remap but as it was under warranty
I should take it back to the factory which I did .


Peter.

Roadster ARV6 3.7 Prosecco.
Riley RMB 2.5
VW Corrado 1.8 16V.
1968 Wolseley Hornet.
Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: MR11MOG] #256258
01/03/15 11:36 AM
01/03/15 11:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
It is not correct that the Omex ECU can not be remapped. It has a 9 pin serial port and Omex supply the software and an instruction manual that you can download from their we site free of charge. I am now up to the 30th variation of my calibration, making small changes and recording the results in on-road testing. I am now pretty happy with the result for both hot and cold running. The calibration of the ECU involves much more than just the fuel map and also includes many corrections for various conditions such as altitude, air temperature, coolant temperature and so on. I would not recommend that anyone who is not technically minded attempts to change the calibration. Variations can be made using on-road testing but obviously the controlled conditions of a rolling road are much better.

I'm not surprised to hear of a Plus 4 SS that has problems with emissions.

My car was supplied new from the factory with a sports exhaust system that was essentially the same as the Plus 4 SS (but without throttle bodies). The only difference was that it used the post cat sonda lambda sensor (sometimes called an O2 sensor). Even before we left Malvern we had an engine warning light due to the insufficient functioning of the cat as read by the post cat sensor. This was rectified by the factory but came out again after about 80 kms. When we got home I had several discussions with the factory (Aero Racing), and when I said that we had a rich smell at times in the cockpit they said several SS owners had made the same complaints. I had some emissions tests done at their request and it was clear that the car would fail an MOT. The factory responded by sending me a 400 cell cat to replace the 200 cell unit. Other than reduce the noise levels of the exhaust, and reduce mid-range torque, it made little difference. They then supplied exhaust wrap and had it fitted by my dealer in an effort to keep the exhaust gasses hot and get, and keep, the cat up to its correct operating temperature. All of this was only partially successful. I have heard conjecture that the heavy flanges on both sides of the cat may be carrying away too much heat from the cat.

I then fitted a set of Omex throttle bodies and the Omex ECU. The kit, by the way, was developed by Omex in conjunction with Williams. I have to say that when the engine is hot we no longer get the rich exhaust smell coming into the cockpit, so I think it has improved in that respect. I have not had a gas analysis done yet so I don't know if it would pass an MOT.

To get back to your problem.
1) It is possible that you have an ECU that has an incorrect calibration. For example some twit may have installed the calibration for a 4/4 with throttle bodies.
2) Whatever the fuel map in the calibration once the coolant reaches 70 C the fuel mix is controlled by the sonda lambda feed back. Unless the fuel map is way out this system will always deliver the correct fuel mix. If you are getting a constantly rich mixture, enough to blow out black smoke, there is something very wrong. If you have done a lot of miles with the engine running like that you may have exhaust system problems that must be rectified. Firstly your sonda lambda sensor would now be so contaminated it is probably necessary to replace it. The same, unfortunately, goes for the much more expensive cat.
3) My first thought is that either there is a problem with the sonda lambda not functioning correctly or that the engine temperature sensor is not functioning correctly. This may not show up on the dash instruments because (at least in my case) the dash instruments are still controlled by the Morgan ECU. Hooking up the Omex ECU to a computer (and the Omex software) would soon check this. If the Omex ECU is not seeing the temperature rise above 70C then it would be constantly running as though the engine was cold. This could also be a problem of bad electrical connections. Under the cold running regime it would naturally have a rich mixture and the symptoms would match your description.

There may be issues with with other sensors or with mechanical issues such as the balance of the throttle bodies but after checking that the ECU has the correct calibration I would then replace the sonda lambda and check the correct functioning and reading by the ECU of the engine, and perhaps also the air, temperature sensors.

I have found Omex to be very helpful but I would suspect that in this case they see the issue as being outside their control as their components are part of a complete car and therefore better handled by Morgan or a Morgan dealer.

I would certainly suggest that if you are near to Williams you have a chat with them. They have a very close relationship with Omex and also have the possibility of changing exhaust systems and the cat if necessary in order to have the car pass an MOT.

Sorry for the long ramble. I hope it helps.

Last edited by Gambalunga; 01/03/15 11:44 AM.

Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: MR11MOG] #256273
01/03/15 12:17 PM
01/03/15 12:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
GTN Offline
New to Talk Morgan
GTN  Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
Had the same issue but my MOT centre literally revved the nuts off the +4 SS until the cats were glowing red and then it passed. They said don't bring it back this year unless it was completely hot & had been for a good run. Not sure if this helps?

Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: GTN] #256287
01/03/15 01:16 PM
01/03/15 01:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 90
R
redmorgan Offline
Just Getting Started
redmorgan  Offline
Just Getting Started
R

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 90
My car passed the MOT last May okay, but I think the ECU was remapped.

The road fund license is surprisingly modest for a motor that turns out circa 210bhp. I am not into the technical issues, but could this be a reason for the potential failure due to the emissions.



Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: GTN] #256289
01/03/15 01:36 PM
01/03/15 01:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
Originally Posted By GTN
Had the same issue but my MOT centre literally revved the nuts off the +4 SS until the cats were glowing red and then it passed. They said don't bring it back this year unless it was completely hot & had been for a good run. Not sure if this helps?

In order to function correctly the catalytic converter must reach 430C (806F)


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: P4 SS ...emissions failure.? [Re: redmorgan] #256297
01/03/15 02:05 PM
01/03/15 02:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,003
Cumbria UK
Jays Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Jays  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,003
Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By redmorgan
My car passed the MOT last May okay, but I think the ECU was remapped.

The road fund license is surprisingly modest for a motor that turns out circa 210bhp. I am not into the technical issues, but could this be a reason for the potential failure due to the emissions.




The way you drive yours, I suspect your cat was up to temperature! innocent



Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!
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