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Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: Mol] #557211
01/02/19 03:20 PM
01/02/19 03:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 163
SW Iowa, U.S.A.
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SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Something to keep in mind with upgrades is that while the factory "locked" ECU is adaptive to a large degree, the adaptive fuel/spark maps it creates are lost when the ECU is disconnected from power i.e. the battery is disconnected. It will of course "re-learn" the current engine set up on re-connection, but that takes some time/miles.

The "unlocked" ECU gives you the option of merging the "learned" adaptive maps with the baseline map, thus creating a new baseline map stored in non-volatile memory. Adaptation to changing conditions still occurs, but referenced to the new baseline.


Steve
2012 M3W #458
SW Iowa

Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: Bitsobrits] #557214
01/02/19 03:28 PM
01/02/19 03:28 PM
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My Stage 1 is being done at the factory while it is there for other work. MMC insist on an ECU reflash for that. Is there any notable benefit, since it seems that most Stage 1 adopters on TM seem to get by without touching the ECU?

Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: Bitsobrits] #557224
01/02/19 04:06 PM
01/02/19 04:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,704
West Sussex, UK
Chris99 Offline
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West Sussex, UK
Originally Posted By Bitsobrits
Something to keep in mind with upgrades is that while the factory "locked" ECU is adaptive to a large degree, the adaptive fuel/spark maps it creates are lost when the ECU is disconnected from power i.e. the battery is disconnected. It will of course "re-learn" the current engine set up on re-connection, but that takes some time/miles.


I've used a battery disconnect when not using the car since new and never had any issue with the ECU "forgetting" the adaptive settings - either when standard, Stage 1 or, as now, KH stage 3.

I ran the standard ECU with the MMC Stage 1 and switched to a KH unlocked ECU when I had the cams upgraded.


Red Leader drive
Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: M3W55] #557244
01/02/19 04:40 PM
01/02/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 198
CT, USA
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Originally Posted By M3W55
My Stage 1 is being done at the factory while it is there for other work. MMC insist on an ECU reflash for that. Is there any notable benefit, since it seems that most Stage 1 adopters on TM seem to get by without touching the ECU?


After hearing mixed messages on this topic between the forum and dealer, I contacted the factory in Oct. and was informed that an ECU flash was 'most probably' unnecessary for Stage 1.

In contrast, my US dealer feels its 'likely' necessary due to the already lean nature of the mixture to meet DOT requirements but not 100% sure. The only consensus seems to be that if you don't reflash and the ECU triggers a fault code, it's time to reflash.

Personally, if I weren't interested in Stage 2 (cams) and sure I'd hold firm at MMC Stage 1, I'd take the reflash to be sure. But at the absurd quoted $2k for a set of Stage 1 pipes, filter and minimal ECU tune, I can't help wonder if the true value play is the path I'm considering.

BTW, my battery is disconnected for the winter. I would imagine that once reconnected with a homemade Stage 1, it wouldn't take long to discover if this theory holds. Unfortunately, I haven't heard that Stage 1's are shipping yet and I'm impatient.


'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up
Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: Chris99] #557258
01/02/19 05:07 PM
01/02/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 163
SW Iowa, U.S.A.
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[/quote]
I've used a battery disconnect when not using the car since new and never had any issue with the ECU "forgetting" the adaptive settings - either when standard, Stage 1 or, as now, KH stage 3.
[/quote]

That the adaptive maps are stored in volatile memory and lost upon power disconnect is not conjecture on my part or internet lore-I took that information from the S & S Protune manual page 87 paragraph 9.5.

In your case I would imagine the adaptation was slight enough you did not notice the change and/or the new maps built quickly enough to mask the change.

In my own car, after a change to a cat-less straight through exhaust, the change from adaptive maps to baseline map after using the battery disconnect was quite noticeable, and it took 15-20 miles of running for the engine to return to its previous happy self. Merging the maps eliminated this. In all I did three maps merges after 100+ mile variable condition drives. The last one showed minimal change from the 2nd one, so I've stopped there. The Protune software allows you to visually and numerically compare maps, assuming you saved your previous versions

Last edited by Bitsobrits; 01/02/19 05:15 PM.

Steve
2012 M3W #458
SW Iowa

Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: Bitsobrits] #557300
01/02/19 07:29 PM
01/02/19 07:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 235
Rio Del Mar, CA
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Steve, did you purchase the ECU from Garage56? Was the installation straightforward?


2016 M3W, Army Green Matte/Tan Leather, 12k miles
Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: kankeL] #557366
01/02/19 09:57 PM
01/02/19 09:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 163
SW Iowa, U.S.A.
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Originally Posted By kankeL
Steve, did you purchase the ECU from Garage56? Was the installation straightforward?


Yes, from G56, with the fan kit upgrade installed, even though I don't have the fan kit yet. While I wouldn't call the installation easy, it was straightforward. Straightforward because you just unplug it (battery disconnected!) and remove the two mounting screws. It's not easy because getting to the two mounting screw involved working around tightly grouped wiring, and the connector I was finally able to remove from underneath the dash after removing the center under dash trim pad. I would also say a ball end hex key is required for the mounting bolts due to angle constraints. Seems the ECU is the first thing they mount on the chassis before everything goes on! After installation my speedo didn't work, because in my struggle I had dislodged a wire in the connector from the front wheel sensor. Was easy to fix (just push it home) but took a bit of internet searching to find some clues on why speedos stop working, and therefore which wires to examine.

It occurred to me at the time I should build a small sleeve/box to mount that would allow the ECU to just slip out. Didn't want to take the time.

The port for plugging in the computer cable is fairly accessible, but has very small screws you must not lose. During my driving/tuning weekend I left the cable plugged in with a cap over the computer end when not in use. Kept the risk for screw loss to a minimum.


Steve
2012 M3W #458
SW Iowa

Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: Bitsobrits] #557383
01/02/19 10:46 PM
01/02/19 10:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 235
Rio Del Mar, CA
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Rio Del Mar, CA
Originally Posted By Bitsobrits
Originally Posted By kankeL
Steve, did you purchase the ECU from Garage56? Was the installation straightforward?


Yes, from G56, with the fan kit upgrade installed, even though I don't have the fan kit yet. While I wouldn't call the installation easy, it was straightforward. Straightforward because you just unplug it (battery disconnected!) and remove the two mounting screws. It's not easy because getting to the two mounting screw involved working around tightly grouped wiring, and the connector I was finally able to remove from underneath the dash after removing the center under dash trim pad. I would also say a ball end hex key is required for the mounting bolts due to angle constraints. Seems the ECU is the first thing they mount on the chassis before everything goes on! After installation my speedo didn't work, because in my struggle I had dislodged a wire in the connector from the front wheel sensor. Was easy to fix (just push it home) but took a bit of internet searching to find some clues on why speedos stop working, and therefore which wires to examine.

It occurred to me at the time I should build a small sleeve/box to mount that would allow the ECU to just slip out. Didn't want to take the time.

The port for plugging in the computer cable is fairly accessible, but has very small screws you must not lose. During my driving/tuning weekend I left the cable plugged in with a cap over the computer end when not in use. Kept the risk for screw loss to a minimum.


Thanks! Will order myself a new ECU wink


2016 M3W, Army Green Matte/Tan Leather, 12k miles
Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: 06032] #557391
01/02/19 11:57 PM
01/02/19 11:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,704
West Sussex, UK
Chris99 Offline
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West Sussex, UK
Originally Posted By 06032
But at the absurd quoted $2k for a set of Stage 1 pipes, filter and minimal ECU tune


This would include a new, unlocked ECU as the standard one can only be reflashed with a MMC file.

So the $2k probably breaks down to approx $800 exhaust, $800 ECU and $400 air filter and fixings


Red Leader drive
Re: Wrapped headers, removed cats and exhaust baffles [Re: Mol] #557482
02/02/19 04:57 PM
02/02/19 04:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
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When you install your new ecu I would suggest ditching the screws in favor of Velcro. Unfortunately I figured this out after fitting the new ecu.

I have not played around with the software but likely need to to merge the maps.

It is hard to tell what did what but the engine is transformed to me as the power is much more linear and the below 3k feels much more lively. I had the factory stage 1 which was good but much better now.

It is a shame we don’t have a tuner like the two options in the UK in the US

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