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New shock absorbers #30447
04/06/09 11:15 AM
04/06/09 11:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 375
Germany (North-West)
109er Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!
109er  Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 375
Germany (North-West)
Folks,

is there anyone interested in bringing a new shock absorber system into the market? We are talking about a shock absorber with frequency dependent damping rate. High damping rate at low frequencies, low damping rate at higher frequencies. Such a system is patented by Koni and apparently used by McLaren in F1.

We have a new approach which has been figured out by a retired engineer in shock absorber development. The first mock-up has successfully been tested on a hydropulser. We see a switch in damping rates around 3-4 Hz.

First possible applications could be race cars or motorbikes, maybe even bicyles.

Any suggestions would be welcome,

Andy


Andreas

+4
Re: New shock absorbers [Re: 109er] #30457
04/06/09 06:38 PM
04/06/09 06:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,976
Co Wexford, Ireland
Robbie Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Robbie  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,976
Co Wexford, Ireland
To the uninitiated, what does this mean in the real world?? - Will these shocks give a better ride or will they give better road holding? or whatever --I.E. Why should we be interested?? I don't mean to be in any way rude, I just am not competent to interpret what your post means!!!

Regards from a Sunny Ireland!


Robbie
2018 Plus4 - Snoopy
181-WX-3082

"Fettlebodge"--A chief of the PaddyMogs
Re: New shock absorbers [Re: Robbie] #30464
05/06/09 05:18 AM
05/06/09 05:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 375
Germany (North-West)
109er Offline OP
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109er  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 375
Germany (North-West)
Robbie,
they should give better roadholding.
Low frequencies appear on uneven roads (undulations), upon cornering, breaking and so on. If the damping rate is high under these conditions, the ground clearance and the leveling of the car can be maintained within close limits.
To the contrary, higher frequencies occur at higher speeds due to imperfections of the road surface for example like edges between two adjacent surfaces. A low damping rate is desirable to keep these frequencies away from the chassis. To a race car that means that such influence is not introduced into the tyre alone or into the chassis, but is absorbed in the shock absorber. This should indeed improve the roadholding because you no longer have to find a compromise for a single damping rate addressing these two conditions. And it works without electronics which is essential to most race formulas.
I posted this because Iīd like to see ideas for applications and maybe someone is interested in developing or using a first prototype, if there are race enthusiasts around. Or any technical comments, maybe.
And Iīm not offended in any way.
Greetings from sunny and cold Germany,
Andy


Andreas

+4
Re: New shock absorbers [Re: 109er] #30470
05/06/09 07:38 AM
05/06/09 07:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,103
Kent, Blighty
Paul Hurst Offline
Retrobate
Paul Hurst  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,103
Kent, Blighty
Would be interested in a finished and proved product, but only at that stage.

Re: New shock absorbers [Re: 109er] #30472
05/06/09 07:48 AM
05/06/09 07:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 145
Kent, England
C
chris Offline
L - Learner Plates On
chris  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
C

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 145
Kent, England
I could be interested in testing them on a Plus 8, Andy. If you want to take it further, could you PM me technical details?

Re: New shock absorbers [Re: chris] #30487
05/06/09 10:47 AM
05/06/09 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,216
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,216
South Yorkshire
So, is it the case then, that low frequency = high damping/low deflection. But high frequency provides less (softer) damping and more deflection? Which will theoretically reduce harshness on irregular surfaces - because that sounds promising.
Where would a conventional damper sit within this range? I'm curious, because my AVO's on the softest setting (which I'm thinking will be similar to the 'high frequency' end) result in what is best described as front end 'float' over irregular surfaces, whereas on four clicks the ride is much harder, but without being uncomfortable - which I'm supposing would be closer to the low frequency end.
If high frequency damping needs additional travel, is this achievable given the Mogs limited avaiable suspension travel without bottoming, or coil binding on the front end?


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: New shock absorbers [Re: DaveW] #30489
05/06/09 11:45 AM
05/06/09 11:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 375
Germany (North-West)
109er Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!
109er  Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 375
Germany (North-West)
Dave,

- So, is it the case then, that low frequency = high damping/low deflection. But high frequency provides less (softer) damping and more deflection? Which will theoretically reduce harshness on irregular surfaces - because that sounds promising. -

Yes, exactly, I couldnīt describe it better. And as far as I know, there is no such damper commercially available yet. Only KONI are producing one for a race team, and this one has frequency-dependency only in one direction of travel.

It would be great to figure out a way to produce these dampers, but that is a long way. Maybe I can convince someone to enter production if I have a good application. I thought of Morgan, Lotus etc.

I donīt think they need additional travel because the high frequency influence usually have a small amplitude.

Andy

Last edited by 109er; 05/06/09 11:47 AM.

Andreas

+4
Re: New shock absorbers [Re: 109er] #30513
05/06/09 10:11 PM
05/06/09 10:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 123
London
Y
Yuri Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Yuri  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Y

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 123
London
I think this is good idea.Ready to invest.

Re: New shock absorbers [Re: Yuri] #30520
06/06/09 05:38 AM
06/06/09 05:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 234
Devon, Exeter
C
chris444 Offline
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chris444  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 234
Devon, Exeter
In my motorbike riding days I had a BMW K100RS 16 valve, the standard shock was dreadful and in the end I got a French Fournales shock, this uses air over oil and seemed to work quite well, we have some awful road surfaces over here and at illegal speeds the back end bounce made riding uncomfortable, I could go for the fournales system on the Morgan but I did have to have a special high pressure pump which is the tough part as the shocks are hidden under a car but in your face on a bike. so pumping the things up could be difficult

The front on a Morgan can be a little underdamped, one section of road between L'Orient and Vannes in Brittany could make you seasick, even wife noticed the St Malverns dance, would the front not upset the rear?


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