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#38329 - 09/12/09 08:23 PM
Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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Please don't get too excited just yet......... However...... On Friday night at 21.30hrs I was relaxing on the setee. MrsW was busy in the kitchen (as usual). Suddenly there was a loud "explosion" followed by a long 'breaking/broken glass' sequence which went on forever. The glass oven door had been left down and was cooling off. My forensic examination when the dust settled led me to believe that the left hand return spring had broken, and the unwinding spring had struck the edge of the glass, leading to to a zillion pieces of toughened glass over everything. You might remember that "The Deal" with MrsW was 'Bathroom'>'Morgan'>'Kitchen'>'Ahem...BroomBroom2'. It appears that my strategic stalling may now have been prejudiced by this fatigued spring.......... To be fair, this kitchen is 23 years old, but still works. Obviously a new glass door will be hard to find at this age, and those more modern and available are well over £100. A quick check on replacement cookers quickly proved that we should wait for 'The new kitchen' - probably early next year. Although I did the bathroom myself (over 3 months), I can't live on sandwiches for 3 months so we will have to get a man in. He'd better be good is all I'll say.......  So I was left with the problem of getting us through Christmas with hot food. At least the inner oven door was intact. This is a steel pressing. First I lined the inner door with some spare insulating blanket from Agriemach Ltd which I had used on the front mudflap backing covers. Next I ordered some "Reflect-a-cool" from Agriemach which is self adhesive, and thinner than the original blanket - more of that in a minute. Next I trawled the web for a supplier of small stainless sheets. I ordered a precut sheet of stainless on Sunday (they were monitoring E-Mail) from here..... http://www.metalsheets.co.uk/index.phpIt was delivered today and fitted tonight with the new insulation. MrsW is delighted and now I should get hot Turkey on Christmas Day.  ....even though it needs the help of a garden cane to seal the door on the left side. 'Metal Sheets' sell most metals and there may be future Mog applications as they also cut holes etc etc so there are definite possibilities.  So where is this leading you might ask??? The answer is that I have a nice patch of "Reflect-A-Cool" to use productively. I was looking under the Morgan bonnet before I packed up tonight and have developed some ideas..... Hmm.  I will be getting on with this job as soon as possible, but a trip to Devon is in the offing at the weekend, so doing much before Christmas depends on domestics and how cold it gets. I'm looking forward. And I also need to get the seats out to oil the floor beneath. As a PS, I've just been sent the Demon Tweeks competition catalogue, probably since I bought the friction modifier for the diff from them. It's an incredible catalogue of competition parts, including stuff you didn't know you wanted......or anybody made. All the stuff is on the website, but I still prefer a catalogue so I can read it in bed. So over Christmas I'll be thinking about treating myself. More will follow in due course. The stainless panel was £12.90 +P&P by the way.
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#38330 - 09/12/09 08:29 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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L - Learner Plates On
Registered: 31/08/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Perthshire, Scotland. UK
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Hi, What does a 'friction modifier' do to the diff???
Will
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#38333 - 10/12/09 08:05 AM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: lightsphere]
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Learner Plates Off!
Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 467
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
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Dave, What are you hoping to achieve with underbonnet insulation? Is it to reduce engine noise , or , perhaps bulkhead / transmission tunnel heat? I would not like to reduce engine noise as it is part of the character of the car, and I must say that the new car is much cooler as regards the temperature of the transmission tunnel.
Just musing as to what you are looking for!!
Cheers!
_________________________
Robbie Plus4 Aston Martin Mendip Blue 09-WX-2269
"Lord Plus Faw of Kilgibbon"
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#38344 - 10/12/09 10:17 AM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: Trent]
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Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 1305
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Demon Tweeks catalogue.... good reading material
Can also recommend
GPR Direct Catalogue Burton Power Catalogue Cosworth Catalogue
Demon's et. al. front a whole bunch of small companies... I've had good results going to the companies direct (post discussion with Demon's) for custom engineered Morgan Components where evidently Demon's don't have many Morgan parts listed.
Result!
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#38360 - 10/12/09 07:28 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: nputtick]
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Just Getting Started
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 99
Loc: Norway
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Hi,
I fitted "Cool It: Thermotec wrapping" on the manifold of the crossflow engine of my previous Morgan. The alternator broke down after a track day, and I wanted to protect the new one from excessive heat.
I like to believe that the engine felt a little bit more responsive similar to driving at night compared to a hot summer day, due to colder intake air, but perhaps I had a too strong imagination.
Harald
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+4 4-seater 2008 Squadron Blue BMW 318i 2010 Citroën Xsara Break 1.6i 2003
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#38361 - 10/12/09 07:30 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: cerealsurfer]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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So many questions!!!! Flyfisher: friction modifier – from the Demon Tweeks website - Use with 'recommended diff oil' to fine tune the performance of your LSD. Perfect for hill-climbs/sprints/drag race and auto tests. Use up to 4% in oil. Use also as a break-in additive to reduce friction and heat generated by new gears, which can ruin hardness of teeth. May be used with any synthetic or mineral gear oil.Lightsphere: The coolant treatment has not stopped the level falling.  It’s very slow but over the last couple of hundred miles has dropped a quarter inch. Some of this will be due to the much cooler weather – the water will contract slightly. There’s no sign of a leak, although I’m not convinced it’s sorted the damp patch on the radiator. Robbie: I (deliberately) bought more insulation material than I needed for the oven door…………  so then I started looking how to make use of it. It’s not to reduce the noise, but it will be 'easy' to insulate the vertical parts of the bulkhead. I also want to upgrade the master cylinder insulation, as it’s messy. Then on the offside the front exhaust manifold passes very close to the alternator. On the nearside a metal water pipe runs under the exhaust manifold against the block. Under the offside wing, the loom runs close to the Cat. All this can be fine tuned with the self adhesive insulation. Pictures will follow as soon as I get the time. Trent: Glad you enjoy the stories. It looks like they will go on and on………. By the way, tomorrow is my first anniversary on this site, having stumbled across it after a chance mention on Mogtalk. And what a great site this is......  I feel as if I've been on here forever And in the year I've managed to meet Graham at least three times, and Simon, Boshly, AsboJohn, Easter, Minikeefy and Frank 4x4 once. All very nice chaps. I hope I haven't forgotten anybody... Cerealsurfer: Good point about small companies behind Demon Tweeks, and well worth remembering. I might just chase up those other catalogues........... The stainless oven door......... 
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#38382 - 11/12/09 07:46 AM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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Learner Plates Off!
Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 467
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
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Dave, Many thanks for the explanation -- I will now look at this area of the new +4!! I await your photos and findings. Brilliant site this -- great ideas to which you, Dave, have contributed hugely, Thanks!  BTW - Great job on the oven(Necessity - full tum -- mother of invention!!) cheers!
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Robbie Plus4 Aston Martin Mendip Blue 09-WX-2269
"Lord Plus Faw of Kilgibbon"
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#38676 - 19/12/09 02:02 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: Robbie]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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I found a couple of hours this morning , although the garage was -1.5degrees C to begin with  . With the help of two fan heaters it quickly rose to 5 degreesC......  The easiest side to sort out on the Series One Roadster is the nearside/passenger side. The next photo shows the coolant pipe which passes under the exhaust manifold. There is only one or two mm clearance to the first pipe, rather more on the other two. Clearly in summer, some heat radiated from the manifold will be absorbed into the coolant, even though the pipe is silver. Because the coolant pipe is kinked, it's not easy to fit a single length of insulation, so I split it into manageable lengths. It's self adhesive so is easy enough to wrap around the pipe. The second photo is with air collector box removed which makes access easier.  Now the vertical part of the bulkhead.  The washer bottle lifts out, but needs a bit of persuasion with a screwdriver, as there are two plastic bulges which hold it in place. Interestingly the bracket was loose, even though it's riveted. I managed to fit four strips of insulation around the edge to tighten it up, as I couldn't be bothered drilling the rivets out and re-doing it.........too cold. I used three pieces of insulation to cover this area, as one big single piece would be very difficult to fit neatly.  And here it is with the bottle refitted.  So for today, that's all....... PS - a reminder that this product is 'Reflect-a-Cool' from Agriemach.
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#38919 - 27/12/09 01:10 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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The bonnet corners rub on the cowl and bulhead, and this eventually rubs the paint away. I'm not that keen on the leather corners which are available, but there is another way. The first photo shows a small neoprene square which buffers against the hinge fastener. It's stuck with Bostik.  On the bonnet corners I've stuck some sacrificial electrical tape to protect the paint. This eventually rubs off. Just visible here, vertical alignment, and the top is blackening.  On the front edge it's horizontal alignment with the edge rounded to match the bonnet shape.  This is the cowl - offside, and you can just make out that there's an oblong of red electrical tape onto which is stuck a small length of neoprene, which is just enough to buffer the bonnet.  And finally the bulkhead - a square of neoprene. 
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#38940 - 28/12/09 01:27 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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Next I intended to remove the master cylinder heat shield to smarten it up, but a look underneath put me off. It seems that the brake pipe may have been connected after the shield was fitted. You can see how it fits here:  The brake pipe is closer than it looks, so I've fitted a plastic edge trim to the aluminium (not fitted here), although I don't think that it will chafe. Lower down the pipe touched the body on the corner of the metal here:  The clutch slave cylinder lower fixing is in view here. Neoprene provides a cushion and a quick fix:  Here is the brake master cylinder heat shield from the top, as it comes with frayed edges:  And later with Reflect-a-cool added to tidy it up, and provide a bit more insulation:   Finally for today, as it's too cold to stay long in the garage. a photo of the starter motor:  Jaguar eh???? Mmmm. 
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#39125 - 04/01/10 04:48 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: nputtick]
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Green & Grown Up
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 1155
Loc: Buckinghamshire UK.
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Jaguar indeed, but made in India. How times have changed. The MWS wires are of course made in India too.
Great set of informative photos again Dave Regarding items from India - It was Marco Polo that gave Italy its Icecream, Silk, Grappa, Pasta, and a few other things nicked during his trips to China. The Italian Artisans then added their magic touch. Does anyone know the equivalent 'Invented in, and nicked from India' story?
Edited by Frank 4x4 (04/01/10 05:11 PM)
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Frank - Green Goddess Roadster (Home again at last)
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#39131 - 04/01/10 07:01 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: Frank 4x4]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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Well, a bit more progress yesterday on insulating the drivers side bulkhead. This is how it looked: You can see a small grommet left of the column. There were four small holes in the bulkhead, into which I fitted these grommets (from my grommet jar)...............  You can also see how tricky this side is. The easiest way is to fit small pieces in an overlapping tile effect.  While I was under there I also added some rubber caps to the three starter connectors - to reduce the likelyhood of shorts.  There's still a bit more to do but that was all I could manage in the time available - and the fact that it was ffffffreezing.
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#39152 - 04/01/10 09:40 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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Green & Grown Up
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 1155
Loc: Buckinghamshire UK.
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More great ideas and photos - Is there no limits to your talent Dave? There were four small holes in the bulkhead, into which I fitted these grommets (from my grommet jar) Is that the Aircon done for then Dave? While I was under there I also added some rubber caps to the three starter connectors And no limit to the contents of your spare parts jars? 
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Frank - Green Goddess Roadster (Home again at last)
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#39570 - 11/01/10 07:36 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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Slow progress on this due to But I snatched an hour or so over the weekend. Next on my list was the clutch master cylinder. Although it's not close to the manifold, there's no harm in adding some protection from the radiated heat. This is much more relevant to the Plus 8 where the manifold is closer. My requirement was for a push fit guard. First a brown paper template......  Then using an offcut of aluminium sheet.......covered in Agriemach 'reflect a cool' - with an extra layer of woven insulating mat on the forward facing edge. Curving the aluminium is a bit time consuming. Once completed it's drilled and secured with two stainless allen bolts & locknuts. The slot allows it to 'slot over' the bracket...... Fitting was trial & error in the usual way and it just fits through the gap above the steering column.   Slotted over.......   One final job to do in this section but this must wait a bit longer. 
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#39772 - 16/01/10 04:13 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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Right then. Today was a balmy 10degrees C in the garage after I had the heater on. So I could get on with the remaining jobs. First a small diversion......... Those red & green wires are untidy. It's where there is a join in the loom and usually such joins are left visible, but not quite as visible as this.  Here's a much closer look..........  Four cable ties?????? I reckon that may be the way this is made.......... But I can do a bit better. Cutting cable ties is fiddly but I have the perfect tool. A Xuron track cutter. This tool is sold to cut model railway track, but is perfect for cable ties, having a very precise cutting blade, so no damage to the surroundings.  Then I used some loom tape, (which is not self adhesive) to bind the loom and make it a bit tidier. The convention seems to be to leave the join visible, so that's what I did. The end of the tape is secured with a tiny blob of superglue.  So, back to the final piece of insulation. I was planning on making a starter motor shield in the style of the one sold by Agriemach. This would have looked like a tube with a covered end. But looking underneath, not only is access tricky, but a cable comes off the solenoid in the forward direction, so the closed tube plan is difficult. In the end I settled on a simple 'blanket' fix, which means that the air can still get to the lower half, which might actually be a better idea. So first the brown paper template:  This is 'before'.......  Then with the cut piece of insulation fitted - held with a cable tie.........  Underneath........  And from the front, which also shows the rubber covers I recently fitted to the starter terminals.  So as far as the underbonnet goes, that's all for now. 
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#39858 - 19/01/10 06:59 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: nputtick]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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I wouldn't rule that out Nigel..... Especially if the foil comes unstuck.... 
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#41332 - 05/03/10 07:05 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: lightsphere]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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I was back on the heat management trail today. But first the three electric connectors which on the Series1 Roadster are, at least, fixed to the front of the offside cam cover. But with the wires sloping down into the connectors, if any water gets on the wires...........it will run into the connectors. Here it is as standard............  I've considered all sorts of fixes involving stainless steel and neoprene, but its a bit of a stumper. So for now I've fashioned a piece of high density neoprene just to act as a deflector. I've also added a bit more loom tape to tidy those wires up. It makes quite a difference.  Next is the top hose and stainless pipe which runs down the centre of the "Vee". This pipe is very close to the 'distributor/coil pack'. Electronics don't like heat, so I've made a simple shield from aluminium, and covered it in my favoured foil.  This next photo is taken with the air filter removed, and the foil looks a bit messy, but the curve is there to accommodate the air filter. Note how close the tube is to the HT leads.  I'll cover the air filter next on a separate post. 
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DaveW Red Roadster
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#41836 - 21/03/10 06:58 PM
Re: Traditionals - next step - underbonnet insulation
[Re: DaveW]
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Roadster Guru
Has a lot to Say!
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1295
Loc: Yorkshire
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I managed a bit of fine tuning over the weekend, but not really much time. I wanted to replace the 3 nuts each side between manifold and catalyst, so that I could apply a bit of Coppaslip. This is as a precaution for future removal, because these manifold nuts can be really tricky to get off after few years. I resisted using stainless nuts because these can semi weld themselves to the studs when really hot, so I stuck with plated nuts, and new washers and lockwashers. The nearside is easy with good access. Even so these nuts take a bit of starting and are stiff to get off.  Offside is much harder to access. The top one is OK, but the forward nut must be accessed from below, and the alternator gets in the way. The rearward nut is blocked by the master cylinder heat shield. Initially I tought this couldn't be removed without disconnecting the rear brake pipe on the m/cyl, but with a bit of jiggery pockery it can be done. The upper fixing is an 8mm nut on a crosshead setscrew through the inner wing. The lower fixing on the m/cyl is a 13mm nut. Once released the heat shield can be manipulated through the gap around the steering column, but it's tight. Only then can you get a spanner on that manifoild nut.  And here's the job done......  One more thing. The fuel pipes rise vertically against the bulkhead in the rear offside corner. In doing so they pass the bulkhead flange which is an edge of stainless steel. Mine were touching, so I've inserted a neoprene U channel as protection. It's just visible here:  The pipes are tight, but we don't want any chafing do we?  Next on the list is to add some heat protection to the fuel pipes under the offside running board, but that means the exhaust will have to come off again on that side, so I need more time.......
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DaveW Red Roadster
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