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Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: asbojohn] #45836
13/06/10 02:16 PM
13/06/10 02:16 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,554
Easter Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Easter  Offline
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,554
MMC deserve a round of applause for surviving in the current climate, and another for launching new models, however its the trads that appeal to me and I suspect to many other enthusiasts, endless 'limited' runs doesn't seem a viable long term strategy because I don't see that as a way to expand a loyal customer base

Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: asbojohn] #45837
13/06/10 04:16 PM
13/06/10 04:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,602
England
Simon Offline

Talk Morgan Guru
Simon  Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,602
England
Originally Posted By asbojohn
Comes on guys as fans of MMC we should be rejoicing the fact that they are not letting the grass grow under them and are trying to move the company along.


Personally, my support of the company is never in question. As for letting the "grass grow" under them and "moving the company along", my points do not contradict these.

I see constant improvement in customer services and customer experience as "moving the company along". In fact, I view winning new customers over, and keeping them happy, as essential to progression of the brand and continued finical stability of the company.

Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: Simon] #45840
13/06/10 05:13 PM
13/06/10 05:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,224
european union
1560 Offline
Goodwood Drifter
1560  Offline
Goodwood Drifter
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,224
european union
STOP WEENING
LET'S discuss the car

Simon: better start a new topic,

ENGINE
I love the noiz of this engine, but wtf: give us the 350bhp version of this engine!!!

ADDENDA
wipers hidden etc. : finaly!!!!! hope they make it a car up to compete with Astons/Porsches on the "details" that make day to day driving a bit mor comfier, once more had troubles with my wipers on the Max a few weeks back

CHASSIS
hope it doesn't get too much longer, I love my Morgans for their agility AND the way the Aero-series stays controlable in a drift (trad is less like that...)

LOOKS
what we can see: I like, Girlfriend doesn't (someone coming out of a Fiat box can't be taken serious crazy2)

WHAT I HOPE MOST: interior/dashboard to stay as simple as possible, but with ventilation-openings towards my feet so I don't freeze like in my Max snow)

come on guys, let's talk about the car!!!!!
(I'll order on when my dealer is back from holiday)
(will make a party out of speccing it)


now: NoMog
sold: A'max/M3W/V6/444seater
Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: Boshly] #45842
13/06/10 06:10 PM
13/06/10 06:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,497
N.Yorks, UK
nputtick Offline
Has a lot to Say!
nputtick  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,497
N.Yorks, UK
Originally Posted By Boshly
Originally Posted By nputtick
"Aimed at the young family" - at £80k?
Are those fortunate few who can afford expensive vehicles not allowed to breed?






Of course they are. But to make it a "selling point" is stretching credibility beyond any intelligent limit!

I suspect the +2 part of it will actually be space for 2 suitcases in reality. Getting 2 baby seats in the back, or more to the point, getting the sprogs into them, would be an "interesting" exercise!

I'd love one. I don't have a young family any more, but it wouldn't have been my choice - irrespective of funds - when I did.

I share others' admiration of MMC for having the sheer business bravado to produce cars like this , the Max and SS. But I also agree with the point that the "moderns" and "trads" are now effectively different businesses, and one has to wonder where that strategy will lead.

Nigel

Last edited by nputtick; 13/06/10 06:25 PM.
Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: nputtick] #45845
13/06/10 07:34 PM
13/06/10 07:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,890
South Yorkshire
DaveW Online content
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Online Content
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,890
South Yorkshire
The question must be whether one can exist without the other.
And the future of the Trad as we know it must be limited by legislation. I agree with Nigel, that the "+2" must be restricted. A straight six needs a lot of room. The trad doesn't have the length in the engine bay, so where does the space come from? A straight six needs 50% more length than a four or V8....... thinking


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4
Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: DaveW] #45847
13/06/10 09:05 PM
13/06/10 09:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,259
Eton, Berks
Aeroman Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
Aeroman  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,259
Eton, Berks
Dave: There has been a Trad with a BMW 6-cylinder fitted into it in the past, though not produced by MMC.

However, in the case of the EvaGT the chassis according to the press release is a:
Originally Posted By MMC
developed version of the bonded aluminium chassis of the Morgan Aero SuperSports

And as such there should be plenty of room to shoehorn the BMW straight six into it, with all the ancillary turbo gear.



Brian

Morgan SP1 (Rocket Red)
Morgan Plus 8 (Rocket Blue)
Morgan Plus 8 - Moss Box (Black)
Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: Aeroman] #45858
14/06/10 12:06 PM
14/06/10 12:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,820
London
mr_tony Offline
Mr Fezza
mr_tony  Offline
Mr Fezza
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,820
London
Right then, just one thing rankling with me here - engine choice. And I'll explain why.

The press release goes on about being envionmentally friendly, but I see this as total marketing spin, and potentially actually harmful to this launch.

My concerns follow

1. Fuel consumption as a marketing headline?
Who cares what the tank costs to fill. the owner paid 80k for the car and does 5000 miles a year.

2. Low Co2 footprint.
Great story in terms of the works and the overall lifecycle of the car. Bad story in terms of CO2 levels to run. How many international flights do you think owners take a year?

3. Range
As a GT - range is a mildly interesting marketing tool. 40mpg and a 55 litre tank takes me 450 miles. Great. But few people drive for more than 2 hour stretches. The Bentley Continental GT has an effective range in practice of 200 miles, didn't harm sales..

4. Noise
V8 > V6 S6 F6 in every single application I've ever heard. It's a special car, it needs to sound special, not like a vaccum cleaner.

5. Power to weight will go gown vs SS?
New halo car with less power than outgoing halo car? + more weight.

So overall I think the focus seems to be on 1,2,3 - which make a good press release and will probably ahve a few environmentalists thinking that Morgan are nice people. But if they are that environmental to care, then buying a car will not be something they do, let alone a showy looking one for 80k+..

Whereas points 4,5 which in the end are pretty powerful persuaders (Even if they are basic and we might as enthusiasts feel a little embarassed about it) - and far more important to sales..

Look at the lotus Evora? Universal praise, ncie to look at, but a terrible soundtrack and a percieved lack of power have been the prime contributors to what can only be desribed as glacial sales.. I've still yet to see one anywhere..

Just hope Morgan don't fall for their own hype and forget what makes petrolheads buy cars. And more inmportant what makes Morgan folk buy Morgans. It's got to have the shape, it's got to have wings, have an interior that I just couldn't get on any other car and that definite 'hand made' quality that you just don't get anywhere else.

Sure if the specs are true then I'll be falling over myself to get one, but a bit concerned there is a lot of optimisim in the power / weight calculation right now...

Last edited by mr_tony; 14/06/10 03:43 PM. Reason: to be a bit more positive because I really do love it and want one...

--------------
Maxxed out!
Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: mr_tony] #45866
14/06/10 03:41 PM
14/06/10 03:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,890
South Yorkshire
DaveW Online content
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Online Content
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,890
South Yorkshire
Hmm. If somebody managed to squeeze a straight six in, there must have been bulkhead mods I suspect...... thinking

I agree with Mr Tony that it's an odd choice. Well balanced, but long, so not compact. It will put the weight forward in the chassis - unlike the V6 which has a foot of space between the engine and crosshead. In a given length a longer engine equals less cabin space, so the compromise must be the +2 bit.

But then I'm a Trad man so have nothing more than interested curiousity........... smirk2


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4
Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: nputtick] #45872
14/06/10 06:05 PM
14/06/10 06:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,564
Surrey, UK
Boshly Offline
NGUNS!!
Boshly  Offline
NGUNS!!
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,564
Surrey, UK
Originally Posted By nputtick
Originally Posted By Boshly
Originally Posted By nputtick
"Aimed at the young family" - at £80k?
Are those fortunate few who can afford expensive vehicles not allowed to breed?






Of course they are. But to make it a "selling point" is stretching credibility beyond any intelligent limit!

I suspect the +2 part of it will actually be space for 2 suitcases in reality. Getting 2 baby seats in the back, or more to the point, getting the sprogs into them, would be an "interesting" exercise!

I'd love one. I don't have a young family any more, but it wouldn't have been my choice - irrespective of funds - when I did.

I share others' admiration of MMC for having the sheer business bravado to produce cars like this , the Max and SS. But I also agree with the point that the "moderns" and "trads" are now effectively different businesses, and one has to wonder where that strategy will lead.

Nigel


Hi Nigel

Strategy apart, and that is a valid discussion I still think your comment/quote was a bit innaccurate.

As a sales point the car is aimed at young families. The price in conjunction with that comment is irrelevant.

A four seater Bugatti is to be produced and will also be aimed at young families (as well of course at anyone else who requires 4 seats) but more specifically at those far more wealthy than myself.

As far as I'm concerned we are talking about a production of (and I am guessing) no more than 200 cars a year and thus does not need to be at a low price point to achieve this.

As for your assumption of the size of the seats (and many other 'assumptions' made above) why such a negative assumption? It's the same old same old. Sure critocise or comment when the actual car is announced but until then? FYI I have it on good authority that it will be a 4 seater with more than just token seats.

BTW I also apply the same rationale to our own Simon regarding the taster CAD sketch released and told him at length during the day today, why assu
e it will not match the rendering shown? MMC have produced two dramatic and daring and in keeping with Morgan roots designs in the last few years. Why can't they do it again? Looks like it has 'flair in spades' to me. When I see the actual car I 'may' change my mind, I may not, but until then it looks mighty fine smile

Glass is half full guys cheers


Cheers

BtG
Re: New Morgan 2+2 to be Revealed at Pebble Beach [Re: Boshly] #45875
14/06/10 06:25 PM
14/06/10 06:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 455
T
Trevor Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Trevor  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
T

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 455
I like what the car represents and applaud MMC for taking the plunge but in truth I find it difficult to comment past that point until the details are firm and a concept has been revealed. cheers

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