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#466457 - 12/08/17 08:08 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: Hamwich]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 18613
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Quite. I notice no lag on my 200 Tdi! grin2
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Sunny yellow 2 seat smile
'56 Fusion (commutacar); '90 LR 90 SW

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#466479 - 12/08/17 10:55 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: Hamwich]
Gambalunga Offline

Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 9186
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted By Hamwich
There's a simple solution to any perceived 'problem' with turbo lag - just drive the car properly.

If you want any engine to deliver its best performance, you need to have it revving at the point where the torque curve is just becoming its steepest, that way you will get the fastest increase in torque when you open the throttle.

For most 4-cylinder petrol engines, this is usually to be found above 2.5k rpm, and you'll probably find that in an engine redlined around 7 to 8k rpm, then the thing really comes alive at 4-5k.

It's all very well expecting a 2-litre turbo 4 to have the same power characteristics of a 6-litre V8, but it ain't ever going to happen. But then neither do you have to suffer catastrophic fuel consumption figures, so you can go twice as far or more for your money.

I agree Tim. You really learn this with small capacity motorcycle engines;never let your revs drop and it's surprising just how quickly you can go. Often faster than an inexperienced guy on a fast machine. He might get past you on the main straight but you'll go round him on the twisties. After you've passed him a few times he'll back off and let you go out of sheer embarrasment grin2
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#466491 - 13/08/17 02:38 AM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: Gambalunga]
Button Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 19/12/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: Seattle, USA
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Originally Posted By Hamwich
There's a simple solution to any perceived 'problem' with turbo lag - just drive the car properly.

If you want any engine to deliver its best performance, you need to have it revving at the point where the torque curve is just becoming its steepest, that way you will get the fastest increase in torque when you open the throttle.

For most 4-cylinder petrol engines, this is usually to be found above 2.5k rpm, and you'll probably find that in an engine redlined around 7 to 8k rpm, then the thing really comes alive at 4-5k.

It's all very well expecting a 2-litre turbo 4 to have the same power characteristics of a 6-litre V8, but it ain't ever going to happen. But then neither do you have to suffer catastrophic fuel consumption figures, so you can go twice as far or more for your money.

I agree Tim. You really learn this with small capacity motorcycle engines;never let your revs drop and it's surprising just how quickly you can go. Often faster than an inexperienced guy on a fast machine. He might get past you on the main straight but you'll go round him on the twisties. After you've passed him a few times he'll back off and let you go out of sheer embarrasment grin2


I very much agree with Tim and Peter. There is something thrilling about getting the most out of a small displacement engine. Nothing thrilling from going to gas (Petrel) stations as fast as My +8 will go.
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#466553 - 13/08/17 12:34 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: howard]
sospan Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 31/05/10
Posts: 4545
Loc: Llanelli
When I changed from my 4/4 to the Plus8 it was a totally different drive.
1.6cvh efi in the 4/4 and a nice engine-110ish bhp.
The Plus8 is 2002 4 litre with Gems management.
The torque characteristics are totally different.
At first I became lazy in the Plus8 due to the higher torque, almost an "automatic" feel. Staying in higher gear too much.
When in the 4/4 revs needed to be kept up and gears used, reading the road to gauge changes/revs. Good fun! Enabling keeping up with plys8/roadsters.
Having learned the engine characteristics of the Plus8 it is a great drive. 3rd gear is fun! It starts to come alive at 3k rpm. I have taken it to just over 4.5k rpm on upchanges but at those rates roadspeed is high. Care needed.
Accelerating out of bends/roundabouts in the wet is the time for care though due to the higher torque.
I do think fondly of the revving 4/4 though. The thoughts of managing the engine to maximuse fun using revs was awesome.
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#466571 - 13/08/17 04:07 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: howard]
Button Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 19/12/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: Seattle, USA
Recently I learned how awesome 3rd gear was In My +8 Bitsa. I had just replaced My home built 3.5 with a 3.9 that I bought from Bill Fink (ISIS) that became surplus with a +8+ conversion. I sold the Hotwire FI and use a Edelbrock/Weber carb. I also have larger brakes both front and back than a stock +8. Also a 3.73 rear axle ratio. I was chasing a 2005 3.0 Roadster down a notoriously twisty road in Northern California (Hiway 1 from the Ocean to Leggett). It was the first time I was able to use 3rd gear effectively. I just left it in third and let the RPM do as it will. With those brakes and the torque of a +8 I was pushing the Roadster quite a bit. The Roadster Driver was an old Sail Boat competitor of Mine. There was no doubt than I could not pass Him but He admits I pushed Him a "little".

But the fuel I consumed! OH MY!
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#466711 - 14/08/17 11:26 AM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: Hamwich]
howard Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2775
Originally Posted By Hamwich
There's a simple solution to any perceived 'problem' with turbo lag - just drive the car properly.

If you want any engine to deliver its best performance, you need to have it revving at the point where the torque curve is just becoming its steepest, that way you will get the fastest increase in torque when you open the throttle.

For most 4-cylinder petrol engines, this is usually to be found above 2.5k rpm, and you'll probably find that in an engine redlined around 7 to 8k rpm, then the thing really comes alive at 4-5k.

It's all very well expecting a 2-litre turbo 4 to have the same power characteristics of a 6-litre V8, but it ain't ever going to happen. But then neither do you have to suffer catastrophic fuel consumption figures, so you can go twice as far or more for your money.


As I said - you adapt. You have to. But there are situation in which it isnt always easy - entering into a gap in roundabout traffic for example. Any time you are bimbling along and need sudden unexpected acceleration.

Anyway there is a personal choice issue here. Whilst oddly I am happy to have a big lazy bike engine ( 1200 BMW) I like a revvy NA car engine in a sports car. A friend let me drive his carbed plus 8 yesterday and whilst it is a lovely car in excellent nick, I wasnt taken by the old tech push rod Buick V8. Apart from the noise that is.


Edited by howard (14/08/17 11:27 AM)

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#466754 - 14/08/17 03:45 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: howard]
Button Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 19/12/11
Posts: 1038
Loc: Seattle, USA
Originally Posted By howard

Anyway there is a personal choice issue here. Whilst oddly I am happy to have a big lazy bike engine ( 1200 BMW) I like a revvy NA car engine in a sports car. A friend let me drive his carbed plus 8 yesterday and whilst it is a lovely car in excellent nick, I wasnt taken by the old tech push rod Buick V8. Apart from the noise that is.


A 1.6 Japanese Sedan will out accelerate My +8 Bitsa from a STOP. But when I must pass an 18 wheel truck or RV I have plenty of power to quickly pass, even on steep mountain roads. To Me, if I had a smaller engine with a Turbo the Turbo would already be wound up so lag would not be an issue.

I drove a Peugeot Station Wagon with a Gas Turbo and manual 5 speed for Years. What a sweet car. However the Turbo did shorten the life of the engine.
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#467107 - Today at 02:32 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: howard]
howard Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2775
Anyway, to put a metaphorical full stop to this thread, I am thinking of not tuning the Duratec but looking at a Plus 4 Super Sports instead. All the work done for me.

Anyone got one for sale?

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#467111 - Today at 03:05 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: howard]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 18613
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Have you tried an ARP4?
That or the +4 SS seem to fit your needs most.
Neither listed on MMC car finder though, sorry!
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Sunny yellow 2 seat smile
'56 Fusion (commutacar); '90 LR 90 SW

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#467115 - Today at 03:17 PM Re: tuning the duratec [Re: howard]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 13033
Loc: South Yorkshire
A year ago there were a half dozen P4SS's on the MMC website.

One will show up eventually. Check Car & Classic also.
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2005 Red Roadster S1
2016 Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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