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#477447 - 17/10/17 02:11 PM An all electric future!
Gambalunga Offline

Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 9619
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Many countries, China included, are planning to phase out fossil fuel cars over the next 20 years. Toshiba seem to have come up with a new battery technology that may just make it feasible. No doubt this sort of development will continue to make strides ahead over the next few years.

Just imagine: You drive for about 200 to 250 kilometres, stop for a pee and a cup of coffee and by the time you get back to your car, about 6 minutes, it is fully charged with a possible range of over 300 kilometres.

Toshiba say that their next generation 50Ah SCiB lithium-ion battery is a ‘game-changer.’
_________________________
Peter


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#477448 - 17/10/17 02:39 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
howard Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 3033
Plusses and minusses. For the family runabout, I can only see positives - electric motors and batteries have to be intrinsically more reliable than IC engines and gearboxes. Cars will be quieter. Until the government catches up, electric "fuel" will be cheaper. Servicing less.

For fun cars I have my doubts. There really is nothing to compare with a flat plane crank V8 from Maranello at 8000rpm. Well maybe a V10 or V12 as well. The sound of a Dyson vacuum cleaner doesnt hack it.

Mind you, how long will we be able to use a performance car? When driverless ones come along they will have inbuilt safety campaigner boredom controls. Its already at the point congestion wise where I try to get SWMBO to drive the family car with me as passenger.

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#477451 - 17/10/17 02:49 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
robmog88 Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 21/05/07
Posts: 803
Loc: Walsall, uk
It's gotta be the way ahead. I'm on my third hybrid and next spring I'll trade my gas guzzling clk320 Merc in for a new Nissan Leaf.
Leccy cars have to be the way forward, can't believe the ICE has lasted this long with dwindling resources.
Probably have the solar array and tesla power wall installed at the same time.

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#477457 - 17/10/17 04:07 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: howard]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 9378
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Howard, I agree that as a local runabout electricity is the future.
But it will be a while before they ban "real" cars and even longer before Motorcycles are banned, as they must be if they want autonomy.

In the UK horses have been marginalised as a form of transport since the 1950s, yet the ONLY roads that horses cannot use are Motorways.... I see Motorways restricted to autonomous vehicles in the future, but everywhere else?
No chance.

I'm confident that there will be petrol hybrids for many years, the Politicians in Europe and N America may dream of a green, electric future but it won't happen. Too much existing infrastructure and culture.

Yes, the autocratic governments in China and other places will mandate and it will happen and their drive will underpin developments in the west.

Petrol Hybrids will make fun cars, after all F1 built round a sophisticated petrol hybrid power unit.
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#477460 - 17/10/17 04:24 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Jack The Lad Offline
Posting Desperado
Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 6859
Loc: The frozen North
Its took them years to start to build the power station and we need another 5 so they say so what about the cost and the waste and what about these electrical points . If one wants to go into Northumberland or around Scotland and that's just a bit of GB . Then are they just going to elbow BP Shell etc etc there is a lot more to this than meets the eye and like most government stuff a great lot of B/S involved that they have not sorted out . Along when it goes for a major service is that 6 new batteries 5K At the moment its like all government stuff all bloody talk from idiots who have not a clue. As they change from housing minister to something else after its found out they know bugger all about it.
A bit like Blair and his Diesel nor can I see the huge wagons we see on the m/way with electric motors .


Edited by Jack The Lad (17/10/17 04:31 PM)

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#477461 - 17/10/17 04:33 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Jack The Lad]
Ken A Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/01/16
Posts: 682
Loc: Kent, UK
Originally Posted By Jack The Lad
Its took them years to start to build the power station and we need another 5 so they say so what about the cost and the waste and what about these electrical points . If one wants to go into Northumberland or around Scotland and that's just a bit of GB . Then are they just going to elbow BP Shell etc etc there is a lot more to this than meets the eye and like most government stuff a great lot of B/S involved that they have not sorted out . Along when it goes for a major service is that 6 new batteries 5K At the moment its like all government stuff all bloody talk from idiots who have not a clue. As they change from housing minister to something else after its found out they know bugger all about it.
A bit like Blair and his Diesel nor can I see the huge wagons we see on the m/way with electric motors .


JtL I could not agree MORE.........+101
_________________________
Ken A.
Plus 8 Metallic Green
Mercedes A250
MV F4 750
Honda CB1000
Triumph Thruxton 900
Greeves 350

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#477463 - 17/10/17 04:54 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Ken A]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 12636
Loc: Devon UK
Originally Posted By Ken A
Originally Posted By Jack The Lad
Its took them years to start to build the power station and we need another 5 so they say so what about the cost and the waste and what about these electrical points . If one wants to go into Northumberland or around Scotland and that's just a bit of GB . Then are they just going to elbow BP Shell etc etc there is a lot more to this than meets the eye and like most government stuff a great lot of B/S involved that they have not sorted out . Along when it goes for a major service is that 6 new batteries 5K At the moment its like all government stuff all bloody talk from idiots who have not a clue. As they change from housing minister to something else after its found out they know bugger all about it.
A bit like Blair and his Diesel nor can I see the huge wagons we see on the m/way with electric motors .


JtL I could not agree MORE.........+101


+1

I could raise more enthusiasm at the prospect of enforced vegetarianism doh hide.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#477470 - 17/10/17 05:31 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Eddie Cairns Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 09/08/11
Posts: 606
Loc: Aberdeenshire
If you look at the latest government energy paper they want all Oil Fired heating changed to electricity i.e. a ground sourced heat pump or district heating in towns and then in the longer term they are talking about changing the gas grid to provide hydrogen or other low carbon sources.

Therefore more new power stations to run the heat pumps and what power source do you use for the hydrogen production.

Then without advising who is paying for it apart from a few loose statements, that all houses and offices will be at energy conservation level C which is say the same standard as 10 year old houses today.

With the results of recent rail electificion costs that electrification of the railways is too expensive they are saying that rail and agriculture, shipping and air transport are problems they have not solved with their broad statements for home and office heating.

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#477474 - 17/10/17 06:01 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
The Austrian Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 17/10/14
Posts: 2618
Loc: Austria, Vienna area
In 20 years I'm an old bugger and they should keep me away from fast cars than.
I don't mind an electric future.

BTW: Today I checked if my new Audi Q diesel would do more than 125miles/hour and had no problem to exceed that speed.
I hope there was no radar box... hide
_________________________
Hannes
Green M3W; built 2013
Red 4/4 Sport; built 2011
and some practical cars for use in real life

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#477493 - 17/10/17 07:57 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Ruut Bianchi Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 987
Loc: Sittard, The Netherlands
As I stated before in other threads, yes the future will become more and more electric, and no, don't be afraid, since Tesla is my daily driver I enjoy driving it every day. The main challenge is the infrastructure and further improvements in battery technology. Fifty years ago, not every family(!) had a telephone connection, in 2017, just not everybody(!!) has a smartphone.....! Things can go rapidly.
_________________________
Ruut Bianchi
Morgan 4/4 4-seater 1990 Royal Ivory

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#477501 - 17/10/17 08:29 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Gambalunga Offline

Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 9619
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Euro 4 diesels banned in Milan today and the ban won't be lifted until pollution levels fall.

I. for one, doubt that it will make any difference. I believe the source od this pollution is not the diesels with particle filters but other sources. Politically easy to hit the car owners.
_________________________
Peter


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#477504 - 17/10/17 08:32 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Ruut Bianchi Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 987
Loc: Sittard, The Netherlands
_________________________
Ruut Bianchi
Morgan 4/4 4-seater 1990 Royal Ivory

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#477513 - 17/10/17 09:02 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Stringers Best Mate Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 16/10/13
Posts: 5101
Loc: Northamptonshire UK
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Euro 4 diesels banned in Milan today and the ban won't be lifted until pollution levels fall.

I. for one, doubt that it will make any difference. I believe the source od this pollution is not the diesels with particle filters but other sources. Politically easy to hit the car owners.


I'm inclined to agree with you, Peter. I'm not sure how the structure of government works over in Italy, but here in the UK the central government team dictate that 'something' should happen (to appease either everyone, or just those with the loudest voice / largest wallet) and stick a date on by which it should happen.

This then is thrown out to the localised governments around the Uk, who have no resources to do much about it and no ideas how to do it, save for introducing local laws and schemes to penalise the biggest source of income, namely the motorist.

We all agree that emissions should be lower, but no-one knows who to believe and how to do it most efficiently.

Maybe we should all go back 200 years..
_________________________
Steve


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#477524 - 17/10/17 11:06 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 3635
Loc: Hampshire
Okay i've got it.

In some cities we extend the pool car programs with electric cars.
In the more regional locations where most of us actually live we tether a couple of horses.
_________________________
Is it true ? I just have to pop out to the garage and check again, see you in an hour (or three)

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#477528 - 18/10/17 12:00 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Alistair]
BobtheTrain Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 3767
Loc: Renfrewshire
And put the exhaust on the roses.
_________________________
Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek

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#477531 - 18/10/17 12:13 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 12636
Loc: Devon UK

With room for luggage too ...

The driver can tell you exactly the nature of the emissions grin2.

_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#477561 - 18/10/17 10:01 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
sospan Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 31/05/10
Posts: 4704
Loc: Llanelli
Fit a nosebag at the front and a gasbag at the rear. Collect the methane. ooo
_________________________
Red Plus8

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#477569 - 18/10/17 10:26 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Jack The Lad]
Jack The Lad Offline
Posting Desperado
Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 6859
Loc: The frozen North
Just a few government statistics from several pages I keep records of all kinds .

BSE Dr John Pattinson GOVERNMENTS CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER would kill 500.000 every year .

Edwina Curry Salmonella in eggs 1988.

Bird flue 2005 would kill 150 million

The millenium bug was going to cause 1/2 the worlds PC's to crash causing planes to fall out of the sky.

DDT causes cancer to humans 50 million lives in 3rd world gone.

NO NEED TO GO ON rofl

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#477580 - 18/10/17 12:05 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
The Austrian Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 17/10/14
Posts: 2618
Loc: Austria, Vienna area
JTL, you frogot the extinction of all European forests in the 70's

But everything changed and was prevented by our forsighted governments!😜
_________________________
Hannes
Green M3W; built 2013
Red 4/4 Sport; built 2011
and some practical cars for use in real life

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#477581 - 18/10/17 12:16 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: The Austrian]
Jack The Lad Offline
Posting Desperado
Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 6859
Loc: The frozen North
We have German friends known them since the 1970s they have a place in the Black Forrest. Its stunning love the area . But what makes me think is all the huge moors in Britain that do nothing not even a sheep on it why dont they plant trees like Keilder if it helps clean up the air COUGH COUGH and also make money and jobs.

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#477583 - 18/10/17 12:50 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
The Austrian Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 17/10/14
Posts: 2618
Loc: Austria, Vienna area
The reforestation could have been a perfect EU supported development programme. That option seems to have gone...
_________________________
Hannes
Green M3W; built 2013
Red 4/4 Sport; built 2011
and some practical cars for use in real life

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#477586 - 18/10/17 12:54 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 12636
Loc: Devon UK

They may well need to flood the deforested areas with solar arrays and wind turbines to keep the Duracell cars going grin2..

Rather sadly our Dairy farmers are making far more out of the panels than Dairy farming and we see more each day taking over our countryside, pretty they are not. I would take the same decision though.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#477613 - 18/10/17 03:08 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 19239
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Those moors hold back a lot of water, releasing it more slowly, so keeping flooding under control. At least, they do where man hasn't bu99ered about with drainage from same, thereby allowing water to rush off high ground...
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Sunny yellow 2 seat smile
'99 Z3 1.9; '90 LR 90 SW

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#477627 - 18/10/17 04:18 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Jack The Lad]
sospan Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 31/05/10
Posts: 4704
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By Jack The Lad
Just a few government statistics from several pages I keep records of all kinds .

BSE Dr John Pattinson GOVERNMENTS CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER would kill 500.000 every year .

Edwina Curry Salmonella in eggs 1988.

Bird flue 2005 would kill 150 million

The millenium bug was going to cause 1/2 the worlds PC's to crash causing planes to fall out of the sky.

DDT causes cancer to humans 50 million lives in 3rd world gone.

NO NEED TO GO ON rofl


Just more “Fake news”.
Donald will sort it out by revamping the US coal industry......
_________________________
Red Plus8

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#477676 - 18/10/17 07:24 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
smudger1 Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 20/05/09
Posts: 80
Loc: Durham, UK
I was party to a conversation a couple of weeks ago, where I was informed the motor industry is already looking beyond batteries and working with capacitors which will be able to charge up quicker than filling a petrol tank.

So all the government need to do is to ensure the supply is via an obscure voltage, a weird frequency & some sort of pulse generator and ---- any tampering will set off alarms on a satellite somewhere - then hey presto you're paying through the nose in tax, every time you charge up!

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#477703 - 18/10/17 11:54 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 3635
Loc: Hampshire
If this is anything like the high power storage that Williams built for the first round of F1 electrification then I will personally never visit a forecourt again if they mix this with petrol delivery!

Ultra high voltage and petrol fumes. It will make the idiot on the phone seem like a good option.

Just lick that cable and see if it's live ?
_________________________
Is it true ? I just have to pop out to the garage and check again, see you in an hour (or three)

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#477708 - 19/10/17 12:32 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Ray Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 3298
Loc: Llanelli
I dont think any of us with 30 + years left to live need to worry about any of this. innocent Thats from a 73 yrar old . in early Nov.


Edited by Ray (19/10/17 12:47 AM)
_________________________
1979 +8. 1950 series 1 DHC.

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#477722 - 19/10/17 07:48 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Gambalunga Offline

Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 9619
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
At the moment diesels are being targeted but we already have situations in this area, particularly in the major cities such as Milan, when older petrol vehicles are banned from circulation too. Both Milan and Torino, plus many smaller centres, currently have bans on Euro 4 diesels without particle filters. Pre Euro standard (so called Euro 0) petrol, GPL and methane vehicles are also banned.

My Morgan, at least on the documents, is Euro 5 but it is just a matter of time and they will start to ban that too. Perhaps not in the next 5 years but I think it is only about that far away.
_________________________
Peter


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#478490 - 23/10/17 10:45 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 12636
Loc: Devon UK

So a question for the team - the only all electric car that I have read about on here and in the media that performs as advertised seems to be the Tesla.

Has anybody else heard or read about any other all electric car that does what it says on the tin, really I'm talking about a real world priced commuter car here I think.
The only reports I am seeing are dire range statistics even with the lights off !

p.s. At Goodwood Revival we saw the new Tesla with the Gull wing doors being used as a taxi and it was very cool indeed.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#478548 - 24/10/17 09:20 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
howard Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 3033
I still occasionally go on the Ferrari forums and I was amazed to read a thread on there showing excitement about electric cars. OK it was all about how fast they can go rather than saving the planet but nevertheless real petrolheads were enthusing about an electric future.

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#478572 - 24/10/17 11:36 AM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Alistair]
Budster Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 5502
Loc: Devon
Originally Posted By Alistair
If this is anything like the high power storage that Williams built for the first round of F1 electrification then I will personally never visit a forecourt again if they mix this with petrol delivery!

Ultra high voltage and petrol fumes. It will make the idiot on the phone seem like a good option.

Just lick that cable and see if it's live ?


Interesting to see in the programme on TV about Williams, with Guy Martin.
It shows the emergency highly insulated hook kept in every F1 garage.
It’s purpose, to pull people clear of the car in event of an electric shock!
scared
_________________________
Bud
4/4 "Stanley"

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#478596 - 24/10/17 02:45 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 19239
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
From IET News received yesterday (23/10/17)

Petrol stations across the UK could be forced to install electric vehicle charging stations under new draft regulations from the government.


The Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill, which undergoes its second reading today, is aimed at reducing the carbon footprint of cars in the UK as well as ushering in a new era of driverless vehicles.

Last year, research conducted by The Times showed that UK residents face a “postcode lottery” when it comes to electric vehicle charging stations, which is hampering adoption.

The research found that there were more chargers available in the Orkney Islands than in Blackpool, Grimsby and Hull combined.

With more stations installed at motorway service stations and petrol stations across the country, car buyers could travel longer distances, with energy top-ups along the way, relieving anxiety about running their batteries flat.

In addition to greater adoption, the Bill will seek to ensure that new charging stations are ‘smart’ so that they have the ability to interact with the grid to manage electricity demand during peak and off-peak times.

This functionality should help to allay fears echoed by the National Grid that the increasing number of electric vehicles could place too much strain on Britain’s power networks which currently have very limited spare capacity.

The smart stations will give drivers access to live data showing the location and availability of charging points at any time.

The new legislation will also require the drivers of automated vehicles to insure themselves in order to compensate bystanders involved in collisions.

“This bill will aid the construction of greater infrastructure to support the growing demand for automated and electric vehicles as we embrace this technology and move into the future," commented John Hayes, a minister in the Department for Transport.

In July the government announced it would ban the sale of cars fuelled by diesel and petrol from 2040 onwards under new rules designed to tackle air pollution.
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Sunny yellow 2 seat smile
'99 Z3 1.9; '90 LR 90 SW

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#478611 - 24/10/17 04:23 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 13791
Loc: South Yorkshire
I think it will take years for electric to catch on in a big way. The masses won't be able to afford it.
And London seems to be buses, black cabs, vans and not much else.
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#478631 - 24/10/17 06:36 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: DaveW]
Burgundymog Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 2943
Loc: Essex & Somerset
Originally Posted By DaveW
I think it will take years for electric to catch on in a big way. The masses won't be able to afford it.
And London seems to be buses, black cabs, vans and not much else.


In the local Rag this week, Mr electric car owner complaining that he couldn't get on the charging points at ASDA due to the spaces being filled by ICE vehicles. Customer services messages didn't help (well this is Essex) when eventually a space became available and he tried to plug in he discovered vandals had smashed the point !!! meanwhile ICE cars filling up on cheap fuel at the filling station hide stirpot
_________________________
Keith
2013 narrow bodied + 4 Ruby
The world is my Lobster

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#478664 - 24/10/17 08:48 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Burgundymog]
Roger-Cheshire Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 5136
Loc: Cheshire
Originally Posted By Burgundymog
Originally Posted By DaveW
I think it will take years for electric to catch on in a big way. The masses won't be able to afford it.
And London seems to be buses, black cabs, vans and not much else.


In the local Rag this week, Mr electric car owner complaining that he couldn't get on the charging points at ASDA due to the spaces being filled by ICE vehicles. Customer services messages didn't help (well this is Essex) when eventually a space became available and he tried to plug in he discovered vandals had smashed the point !!! meanwhile ICE cars filling up on cheap fuel at the filling station hide stirpot


Perhaps he should stick a solar panel on his car roof and wait for it to charge up. grin2
_________________________
Roger

Mogless in Cheshire. Ex -2011 4/4 Sport


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#478694 - 24/10/17 11:49 PM Re: An all electric future! [Re: Gambalunga]
Ray Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 3298
Loc: Llanelli
They never sorted the milk float out. quiet
_________________________
1979 +8. 1950 series 1 DHC.

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