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Air in fuel supply #508112
11/04/18 05:44 PM
11/04/18 05:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
CJB Offline OP
Just Getting Started
CJB  Offline OP
Just Getting Started

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
I’m hoping someone can guide me here. I’m working on my mate’s Series 2 Land Rover, it has a supplementary fuel (petrol) filter before the carb, this is the transparent disposable type, lying horizontal. Air bubbles enter the filter until it is empty although there is enough flow to keep the engine running. I’ve filled it with a syringe but it slowly empties. I’ve replaced the petrol hose, remade the joints and fitted new clamps on the suction to the pump. The mechanical pump diaphragm seems intact and it pumps ok with the priming lever.
I’m working on the basis that any leaks on the discharge side of the pump would leak petrol not suck air.
Is it possible air is entering the pump somewhere? It is the type with a glass filter bowl on the side of the casting.
Any help or ideas would be gratefully received!
Chris


1990 +8 Connaught Green
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1973 Lotus Europa TC/Special
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: CJB] #508116
11/04/18 05:51 PM
11/04/18 05:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Sounds as though fuel may be draining back into the tank?
Is there a non return valve in the fuel line?


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: CJB] #508123
11/04/18 06:01 PM
11/04/18 06:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
CJB Offline OP
Just Getting Started
CJB  Offline OP
Just Getting Started

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
Air is coming through with the engine running Graham, though it seems to be getting enough petrol to run ok. Got me beat!


1990 +8 Connaught Green
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1973 Lotus Europa TC/Special
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: CJB] #508145
11/04/18 07:59 PM
11/04/18 07:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Interesting. I had to ask that question (from a previous motor).
If all pipework from tank to filter is OK I'd suggest a pinhole in the lift pipe in the tank. Do you get air if the tank is completely full (as in part way up the filler, so above tank top)?


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: CJB] #508163
11/04/18 09:14 PM
11/04/18 09:14 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 175
Durham, UK
S
smudger1 Offline
L - Learner Plates On
smudger1  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
S

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 175
Durham, UK
Is there a reserve valve


1999 Morgan Plus 8. 3.9 ....
1961 Alvis TD21 Series1 3 Litre Auto....
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: Graham, G4FUJ] #508187
12/04/18 08:26 AM
12/04/18 08:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
CJB Offline OP
Just Getting Started
CJB  Offline OP
Just Getting Started

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
I wondered that and hoped it would stop when the tank was brimmed but it didn't. I've removed the lift pipe and it looks ok, I'll try running it with the end of the 'plastic' suction pipe immersed directly in the tank.
I appreciate your help Graham, I knew I would get a response on here, a lot of Morgan owners seem to run Landys also, strange that!
Chris

Last edited by CJB; 12/04/18 08:30 AM.

1990 +8 Connaught Green
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1973 Lotus Europa TC/Special
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: CJB] #508194
12/04/18 09:16 AM
12/04/18 09:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Perhaps a silly question, but has it always done this?


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: Graham, G4FUJ] #508197
12/04/18 10:04 AM
12/04/18 10:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
CJB Offline OP
Just Getting Started
CJB  Offline OP
Just Getting Started

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
Not silly at all Graham, it was reluctant to start and wouldn't idle, I got involved and cleaned up the SU carburettor which fixed it but then noticed the empty filter. The owner is non-technical and can't confirm if it's always pushed air through. I guess that as long as enough petrol is getting to the float chamber in the carb it will run, it doesn't display symptoms of fuel starvation at high revs. Bit hard to tell when an old 2.2 petrol Landy is down on power!
I don't see any air bubbles in the glass bowl of the filter on the pump but it's not easy to from above.


1990 +8 Connaught Green
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1973 Lotus Europa TC/Special
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: CJB] #508215
12/04/18 12:34 PM
12/04/18 12:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,425
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
If it's running OK now I wouldn't worry.
I'm pretty sure the filter on my '76 4/4 did not remain full. Don't think it ever appeared to be full, either. Check the casing on the plastic filter though, mine went soft after a few years and I decided to replace every couple of years after that - at under 5k miles p.a. it never clogged up.
Fuel certainly drained back to the tank after a couple of days - but the extra cranking (mechanical pump) for a cold start meant a little more oil circulation before the engine fired.

My first LR was a '66 IIa with a low compression petrol as far as we could ascertain - pulled better than the 2.3 diesel though smile


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper
Re: Air in fuel supply [Re: CJB] #508223
12/04/18 01:33 PM
12/04/18 01:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
CJB Offline OP
Just Getting Started
CJB  Offline OP
Just Getting Started

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 90
Winchmore Hill, Bucks
I've just given it a test run and foot to the floor in top it wouldn't go over 35 so defo fuel starvation at high demand.
I removed the hose connection to the lift tube and immersed it in a jar of petrol and the engine ran without drawing air, so I suspect the lift tube but it looks fine and I can't work out a way to pressure test it because of the mesh soldered on the bottom. Before I order a new one I'm going to replace the old plastic fuel tube with a continuous length of new ethanol proof tubing (not happy with the plastic to rubber inserted joint anyway), and test by dropping this straight in the tank. That should finally eliminate the problem. At least it's all easily accessible in an old Land Rover!
Thanks again, Chris


1990 +8 Connaught Green
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1973 Lotus Europa TC/Special
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