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#521863 - 12/07/18 12:02 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: +8Rich]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2167
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By +8Rich

Blimey, that really puts it in perspective surely the legal department must have looked at this and done a few sums. God forbid anything happens to anyone else as it did in the wet in France but I can't help thinking eventually it will with the prevailing attitude surrounding these failures. As the numbers steadily increase in the states with the kind of mileages those guys are doing litigation would be uppermost in my mind were it my baby to hold.

A wing and a prayer comes to mind, is it possible to get these welds and tubes ultrasonically tested in situ. If this is the case I think that's what I would be doing. I hired some kit and an operative to check out on site some 50 metre X 150mm tubular guyed transmitting masts and this worked very successfully.

Good luck with your M3W they really are exciting cars for sure.


Thank you for this insight.


That is a very good suggestion Richard and if that is possible, Morgan should cover the cost....
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#521864 - 12/07/18 12:15 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: +8Rich]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2167
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By MJF
The relevant words from the DVSA governing recalls are as follows

The general product safety regulations 2005 states that where a producer or distributor knows that a product it has placed on the market or supplied poses risks to the consumer, that are incompatible with the general safety requirements, it will immediately notify an enforcement authority in writing.


“A safety related defect is a failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product/aftermarket part without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others. This defect will be common to a number of products/aftermarket parts that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom”
If such a defect occurred it could cause significant risk of serious injury or death and cannot normally be identified by routine maintenance or obvious changes to the normal handling or performance of the vehicle that the driver continues to ignore. It is a sudden and catastrophic failure of a component that occurs with little or no warning to the driver to enable preventative action to be taken.


Well as I read that statement there is no ambiguity in it whatsoever.


That kind'a nails it....
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#521877 - 12/07/18 08:15 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: Rog G]
NeilL Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 16/10/12
Posts: 6496
Loc: Warks
It sure reads like a full recall to me.

From past experience with the M3W MMC do seem reluctant to trigger this.
Maybe I am wrong. My overriding concern is safety.
I do not want to read about a catastrophic event.
_________________________
Neil


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#521878 - 12/07/18 08:22 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: OZ 4/4]
Rog G Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 800
Loc: Near Windsor Berkshire
Just to put this into perspective there have been no "sudden and catastrophic" failures of the chassis lower wishbone mount.

Since first noticing it on my car I drove it approximately 1000 miles before it reached the stage as shown in the pictures on the first page, I was trying to convince myself initially it was just a scratch.
_________________________
2013 M3W
1971 4/4 2 Seater
1934 Sports

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#521880 - 12/07/18 08:40 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: Rog G]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2167
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By Rog G
Just to put this into perspective there have been no "sudden and catastrophic" failures of the chassis lower wishbone mount.

Since first noticing it on my car I drove it approximately 1000 miles before it reached the stage as shown in the pictures on the first page, I was trying to convince myself initially it was just a scratch.


Thank God...

So lets wait till there is, really. ooo
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#521892 - 12/07/18 09:46 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: OZ 4/4]
CBM Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 24/08/17
Posts: 159
Loc: Kent
Originally Posted By OZ 4/4
Just to put this into perspective there have been no "sudden and catastrophic" failures of the chassis lower wishbone mount.


Bar one, which was sudden but thankfully not catastrophic. Thanks to Rog G's alert, owners who follow this forum will hopefully have checked for signs of stress (although the failure of my front wishbone member was on the underside of the bushing tube and therefore difficult to view; the rear member failure was at the weld to the tube). The newer wishbone and mount do look like an improvement on the original.

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#521911 - 12/07/18 11:17 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: Rog G]
MJF Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 04/06/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Bristol
I spent the first 10 years of my career working for an American braking system manufacturer which gives me a more than a certain sensitivity to product failure, recalls and litigation.

I fully understand the difficulty that MMC will have in assessing the statistical likelihood of a failure being "sudden and catastrophic" vs a progressive failure on a chassis / wishbone mount that can be anticipated in advance as a result of differing vehicle behaviour. I suspect it is this dilemma which is causing them rightly to be very supportive of fixing issues when they occur so they can also see and touch the failures first hand and determine the likelihood of one of these failures becoming "sudden and catastrophic" as opposed to progressive and observable.

I suspect any other wishbone failures (as opposed to chassis / wishbone mount) if they occur, will never be progressive which in my mind falls into a different category.

Truth is though, I just want to enjoy driving this beautiful looking car, enjoy the strange noises, interesting unreliability, and all its other fantastic idiosyncrasies without worrying about rate of propagation of stress fractures in items which should have been designed not to fail in normal use in the first place.

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#521914 - 12/07/18 11:32 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: MJF]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2167
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By MJF
I spent the first 10 years of my career working for an American braking system manufacturer which gives me a more than a certain sensitivity to product failure, recalls and litigation.

I fully understand the difficulty that MMC will have in assessing the statistical likelihood of a failure being "sudden and catastrophic" vs a progressive failure on a chassis / wishbone mount that can be anticipated in advance as a result of differing vehicle behaviour. I suspect it is this dilemma which is causing them rightly to be very supportive of fixing issues when they occur so they can also see and touch the failures first hand and determine the likelihood of one of these failures becoming "sudden and catastrophic" as opposed to progressive and observable.

I suspect any other wishbone failures (as opposed to chassis / wishbone mount) if they occur, will never be progressive which in my mind falls into a different category.

Truth is though, I just want to enjoy driving this beautiful looking car, enjoy the strange noises, interesting unreliability, and all its other fantastic idiosyncrasies without worrying about rate of propagation of stress fractures in items which should have been designed not to fail in normal use in the first place.

Excellent post MJF
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#521915 - 12/07/18 11:49 AM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: CBM]
Rog G Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 800
Loc: Near Windsor Berkshire
Originally Posted By CBM
Originally Posted By OZ 4/4
Just to put this into perspective there have been no "sudden and catastrophic" failures of the chassis lower wishbone mount.


Bar one, which was sudden but thankfully not catastrophic. Thanks to Rog G's alert, owners who follow this forum will hopefully have checked for signs of stress (although the failure of my front wishbone member was on the underside of the bushing tube and therefore difficult to view; the rear member failure was at the weld to the tube). The newer wishbone and mount do look like an improvement on the original.



CBM
I was referring only to the chassis wishbone mount cracks, not your wishbone failure. which is a different failure to mine and the others, lets not confuse the two issues.
_________________________
2013 M3W
1971 4/4 2 Seater
1934 Sports

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#521928 - 12/07/18 01:07 PM Re: Chassis Cracks- Lower Front Wishbone Mount [Re: Rog G]
KBMOG Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 293
Loc: North London
My car was one of the 7 mentioned by Roger.

Despite MMC carrying out the actual repair for free, we all have had to finance the action of getting the cars to the factory. This was after being told by the factory that on no account should we drive them until the repair had been carried out.
Riger and I shared the cost of trailer hire, which with the addition of 2 trips to the factory, cost us over £100.00 each, which the factory were not prepared to reinburse.
And after all this MMC are still not able to give us a guarantee that the crack will not re-appear either in the same place or elsewhere.
Quoting MLF:-
"Truth is though, I just want to enjoy driving this beautiful looking car, enjoy the strange noises, interesting unreliability, and all its other fantastic idiosyncrasies without worrying about rate of propagation of stress fractures in items which should have been designed not to fail in normal use in the first place".

This whole episode does not do much for the confidence of the driver and/or passengers with the possibility of it happening again, resulting in a nasty or fatal accident, and certainly detracts from the driving pleasure we should all be getting from our cars.

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