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#539011 - 25/10/18 09:11 AM Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due..
flyfisher Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 31/08/06
Posts: 584
Loc: Perthshire & London
Basically new chassis for next year with Trad body.

Completely new style Morgan’s due 2020’s based on the new chassis...

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#539016 - 25/10/18 10:04 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16772
Loc: South Yorkshire
These are interesting times for sure!
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#539017 - 25/10/18 10:07 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: DaveW]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By DaveW
These are interesting times for sure!


Certainly is. Hmmmm.......53 views and only one comment? Just how interesting to some??

I’m surprised that the news regarding the chassis has broken well before Geneva next year.
_________________________
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#539021 - 25/10/18 10:22 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Fox Terrier Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1056
Loc: Luton, Bedfordshire
Originally Posted By Jays
Originally Posted By DaveW
These are interesting times for sure!


Certainly is. Hmmmm.......53 views and only one comment? Just how interesting to some??

I’m surprised that the news regarding the chassis has broken well before Geneva next year.


Grumpy start to the day Jays? Maybe folks are digesting the news before commenting. I know I am. coffee

(PS. Anyone got a link to the article?)


Edited by Fox Terrier (25/10/18 10:31 AM)
_________________________
Morgan Plus 4
Brompton M6L
Giant TCX Advanced

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#539023 - 25/10/18 10:24 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9823
Loc: Lancashire, England
Big news but not unexpected
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#539027 - 25/10/18 10:34 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Eddie Cairns Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 09/08/11
Posts: 790
Loc: Aberdeenshire
I cannot find anything on the Autocar site has the article been removed ot is it just hiding.

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#539028 - 25/10/18 10:35 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Lord Sward Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 14/05/14
Posts: 435
Loc: Grim North
Nope, I thought it was just me missing the article.

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#539033 - 25/10/18 10:54 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Eddie Cairns]
P Dron Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1262
Originally Posted By Eddie Cairns
I cannot find anything on the Autocar site has the article been removed ot is it just hiding.


I expect it is only in the print version for the time being. It will probably be on the website in a few days from now. If someone could scan it...

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#539035 - 25/10/18 10:59 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
deano Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 5235
Loc: Taunton
That's got us hungry for more detail. Very exciting news.


Edited by deano (25/10/18 11:03 AM)
_________________________
Martin (Deano)

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#539038 - 25/10/18 11:22 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
sospan Offline
Charter Member

Registered: 31/05/10
Posts: 5814
Loc: Llanelli
Interesting.......
Remember the thread with a debate re Trad future and developments?
Let’s hope MMC give details soon.
_________________________
Red Plus8

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#539042 - 25/10/18 11:48 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Fox Terrier]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By Fox Terrier
Originally Posted By Jays
Originally Posted By DaveW
These are interesting times for sure!


Certainly is. Hmmmm.......53 views and only one comment? Just how interesting to some??

I’m surprised that the news regarding the chassis has broken well before Geneva next year.


Grumpy start to the day Jays? Maybe folks are digesting the news before commenting. I know I am. coffee

(PS. Anyone got a link to the article?)


Ha ha.....that me....Mr Grumpy! Hadn’t had my coffee 🙄

Nothing on Autocar website yet and popped into local shop to pick up magazine and all sold! It’ll be interesting to see what they reported.
_________________________
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#539054 - 25/10/18 12:54 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16772
Loc: South Yorkshire
I'm looking forward to a test drive...............

Obviously only to consider one when I get old and soft (in the head)........ innocent

How to fool MrsW is the issue.................should the time come swmbo
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#539056 - 25/10/18 01:05 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Robbie Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2580
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
I have license — but only if I am under my cardiologists stated weight limit(tough!)
_________________________
Robbie
Plus4 AM Mendip Blue
09-WX-2269 -- SSL RS & 5L

"Fettlebodge"-- chief of the PaddyMogs

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#539058 - 25/10/18 01:06 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10764
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Be interesting to see the price point.....
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#539060 - 25/10/18 01:11 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Peter J]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 6979
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By Peter J
Be interesting to see the price point.....


Indeed.
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#539061 - 25/10/18 01:13 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16772
Loc: South Yorkshire
Starting at.........?????

We ought to have a wager........... grin2
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#539062 - 25/10/18 01:18 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: DaveW]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 6979
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By DaveW
Starting at.........?????

We ought to have a wager........... grin2


I bet you a pound to a penny they won't come in under £50k
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#539063 - 25/10/18 01:27 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Robbie]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By Robbie
I have license — but only if I am under my cardiologists stated weight limit(tough!)


That's a tough one is that on an annual basis ?
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#539068 - 25/10/18 01:52 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
flyfisher Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 31/08/06
Posts: 584
Loc: Perthshire & London
The ‘new roaster and couple due 2020’s will be priced at the price level of the AM V8 so likely £120-130k..

No mention of pricing of trad body on new chasis. They do say it’s 50% stiffer than the old Aero one and offers more cabin space. Known as the wide bodied car by the development team..

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#539079 - 25/10/18 03:15 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Draggin Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 13/07/15
Posts: 2484
Loc: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Remember in that old video of Peter Morgan where he says the Morgan is always been a cheap car? No longer! All in, in the USA, my three wheeler cost me 65 Grand


Edited by Draggin (25/10/18 03:15 PM)
_________________________
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2016 M3W John A Prestwich Special

1968 Honda CL175,and 2012 Enfield for sale







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#539082 - 25/10/18 03:29 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: DaveW]
Clipper Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 14/03/12
Posts: 3301
Loc: South Yorks
Originally Posted By DaveW
Starting at.........?????

We ought to have a wager........... grin2


Weren’t the S5’s originally advertised at £78k?
_________________________
2017 Ravenblau Blue Aero 8
2010 Ferrari Blue Plus Four




DHA1G

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#539087 - 25/10/18 04:06 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Hamwich]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16772
Loc: South Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Hamwich
Originally Posted By DaveW
Starting at.........?????

We ought to have a wager........... grin2


I bet you a pound to a penny they won't come in under £50k


I imagine £50k basic no frills smallest engine...........
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#539093 - 25/10/18 05:01 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
lowebird Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 3065
Loc: norfolk, UK
I for one don't really care what they do as I love my car just the way it is but obviously whatever comes along I hope it is a great success which will ensure the company keeps going for another 100 years ( not very likely but still )
_________________________
Here for a good time not a long time!!
Reg

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#539094 - 25/10/18 05:07 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: lowebird]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10764
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By lowebird
I for one don't really care what they do as I love my car just the way it is but obviously whatever comes along I hope it is a great success which will ensure the company keeps going for another 100 years ( not very likely but still )


I rather agree, I have Tarka and with care it should last me out.
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#539100 - 25/10/18 05:29 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Peter J]
deano Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 5235
Loc: Taunton
Originally Posted By Peter J
Originally Posted By lowebird
I for one don't really care what they do as I love my car just the way it is but obviously whatever comes along I hope it is a great success which will ensure the company keeps going for another 100 years ( not very likely but still )


I rather agree, I have Tarka and with care it should last me out.


My thoughts entirely, my plus 8 will keep me happy (I think!!!)
_________________________
Martin (Deano)

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#539102 - 25/10/18 05:46 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: deano]
pandy Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 6883
Loc: West Paris, France
Thanks for the heads up. Interesting article; I liked the editorial comment.

I hope I’m not breaking copyright law by reproducing the article.


_________________________
Giles. Mogless in Paris.

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#539103 - 25/10/18 05:49 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
Thanks Giles thumbs
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#539105 - 25/10/18 05:55 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
RBW Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/16
Posts: 132
Loc: Kent
Personally I will be upgrading to a modern chassis.

I am glad to see that Morgan have decided to take the chance and jump forward into a new world, the previous chassis design has lasted for 80+ years, it's entirely possible that the replacement could last for a long time as well, the fact they have designed it with different power options in mind certainly stands them in good stead.

If they want someone to test one I would be more than happy to do so laugh

Hopefully a classic bodied new chassis car won't be too expensive...


Edited by RBW (25/10/18 05:55 PM)
_________________________
2015 Yellow +4

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#539108 - 25/10/18 06:17 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: RBW]
MDS61 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/07/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Shropshire
I personally think Morgan's best chance of survival is:

- upmarket - bespoke vehicles, that have a British theme and engineering excellence.

This will of course have an expense entry point...but so what? crazy2



Edited by MDS61 (25/10/18 06:20 PM)
_________________________
Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 - "Seve"

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#539109 - 25/10/18 06:18 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK

I'm more than happy with my Plus 8, but looking ahead to the future customers and the company this has to be good news as long as they can keep entry level below 60K I think they'll struggle to do that.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#539110 - 25/10/18 06:22 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: +8Rich]
MDS61 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/07/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Shropshire
This is the type of car and price point I would expect:

www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-l...ndon-motor-show
_________________________
Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 - "Seve"

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#539112 - 25/10/18 06:29 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
P Dron Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1262
For how long will the trads continue? I was hoping that the question would at least be asked.

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#539116 - 25/10/18 06:39 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
P Dron Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1262
Also, I never liked the shape of the Plus Four Plus. But if one is looking for inspiration with an historical touch, which I consider essential for Morgan, there is the SLR. The design has stood up well to the passing years.

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#539119 - 25/10/18 06:43 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
The first new cars around mid 2020s.....so around six to eight years time 😳. What happens to the rather large void left by the Aero and Plus8 in the meantime? They can’t rely on the Trads and the Three Wheeler to sustain them.
Costwise, the alloy platform will put the cost of the Trads up if they move to it and it looks as though Morgan want to go upmarket anyway to compete with the likes of Aston Martin. I can understand their desire to do so, but they really will have to up their game with construction and trim quality.

The next few years will be very interesting. 🤓

Ps. Peter I agree with you. The styling sketch shown in the article left me with a feeling of dread....the Plus 4 Plus really isn’t a car to influence design. Mind you, attractive as it is the SLR isn’t a Morgan design as far as I know.


Edited by Jays (25/10/18 06:46 PM)
_________________________
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#539127 - 25/10/18 07:05 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4326
Loc: East Anglia
What with a potential re map in the near future and a switchable exhaust from KH nothing can touch it for fun !
_________________________
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .



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#539129 - 25/10/18 07:17 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
The Austrian Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 17/10/14
Posts: 3262
Loc: Austria, close to Vienna
Wish them good luck!
If they change their focus torwards quality control and upfront testing there may be a future but if MMC wants to enter the competitive field of modern sports cars with their traditional approach of "It's a Morgan, they all do that (or not)" than the future is at risk!

Trad Mog fans are sooo forgiving while Modern Car owners expect to have a perfect product.
_________________________
Hannes
once: Green M3W; 2013
now: Red 4/4 Sport; 2011
and some practical cars for use in real life

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#539132 - 25/10/18 07:48 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
RJW Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 17/10/12
Posts: 153
Loc: Somerset
I'm happy enough with my 2013 PLUS 4 but think a more modern suspension system (front and rear) would add to the experience. I know that alternative systems are available at a cost but should not a modern approach to the suspension of the trad range be standard by now?

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#539133 - 25/10/18 07:56 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: RJW]
P Dron Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1262
Originally Posted By RJW
I'm happy enough with my 2013 PLUS 4 but think a more modern suspension system (front and rear) would add to the experience. I know that alternative systems are available at a cost but should not a modern approach to the suspension of the trad range be standard by now?


That could be done easily and is already available. The problem for the 'trads' is existing and future legislation concerning all sorts of things. You cannot, these days, modify this and that without having to go through extensive and very expensive testing. That is the main difficulty facing the MMC.


Edited by P Dron (25/10/18 07:57 PM)

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#539149 - 25/10/18 08:47 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: P Dron]
BertR Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 13/12/09
Posts: 514
Loc: Aerdenhout, The Netherlands
I find that the article does not say much. Partiiculary, when they write about the design. It is as if you listen to a politician.
A retro model based on the plus four plus, would be the first succesful retro design on a model that commercially was a flop.
Good to read is that there is a plan, multiple ways to use a chasis.
I am shocked to read mid 2020 before the new modle would become available. With Aero and plus 8 out, And left wt trads and 3 wheelers only, I wonder about their plan to keep cashflow sufficiently high. 30 people working this project is costly.
I wonder that following the model of Aston Martin is smart. Low volumes with high price per unit is tricky, often tried and often failed, not a very robust model.
Cheers,
Bert
_________________________
2009 Roadster, Lancia midnight blue, cinnamon upholstery.

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#539152 - 25/10/18 08:55 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
P Dron Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1262
Concerning Aston Martin, that would be a very tough target. And staying in profit has always been tough for AML.

David Brown, whose initials are still used, once received an American actor (I think it was Clark Gable) at the factory, who said that he wished to buy the latest model but that he insisted on paying cost price. Brown replied that that was very generous of him, because most of his customers paid less.


Edited by P Dron (25/10/18 09:54 PM)

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#539161 - 25/10/18 09:31 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
IvorMog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/04/17
Posts: 673
Loc: Staffordshire
What's the point of planning a super new ICE car for the mid 2020's with all the high development costs when, if certain factions of the Government get their way, the all Electric start date could be pulled forward to the early 2030's to match Germany in their 2030 ambitions.

Let's hope there will be an all electric version planned because it will be tough to amortise all the development costs over 5 years.
_________________________
Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec Silvertop

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#539166 - 25/10/18 09:47 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Alistair Online   happy
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5292
Loc: Hampshire
We need to be honest here. There is the published price, the real price they get sold at and the whole warranty cost before you can see a real profit in cashflow terms. The later Aero's could be a little sticky and perhaps the final series high prices were a test of what could be done?

My suspicion is that the last few years of Aero models (Coupe/SS/S5/+8) were not as profitable as the other ranges. The simpler +8 got most of the final BMW V8 engines showing where the smart money was placed and where the customer base was best.

I have to say god bless them if they are going to pitch it at £150k. It will need to come out with the QA stamp on every item at this level which will be a challenge. I hope the delay for shipment allows them to get it to this level. Lets face it the handmade element etc means that would be a real forward looking profit which is great for the long term future of the business.

It will need to be incredible for me to consider buying one at this price.
_________________________
Is it true ? I just have to pop out to the garage and check again, see you in an hour (or three)

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#539175 - 25/10/18 11:53 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9823
Loc: Lancashire, England
Thanks for posting the article Giles

Well I didn’t see that coming, taking inspiration from the Plus 4 Plus!!

It’s got a bit of a 60’s ‘space age’ design to it

All a bit left field
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#539184 - 26/10/18 03:53 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Georgetoad Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 18/11/13
Posts: 130
Loc: Virginia, USA
Thanks Giles.
Did anyone pick up on the centerline driver position? Is this why its a widebody? 3 side by side or maybe 2 behind the driver.
Are we looking for the new Plus 3.
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'34 Family 4
'70 +8
'03 Hummer H2

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#539185 - 26/10/18 05:54 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Georgetoad]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By Georgetoad
Thanks Giles.
Did anyone pick up on the centerline driver position? Is this why its a widebody? 3 side by side or maybe 2 behind the driver.
Are we looking for the new Plus 3.


I think it meant that the driver sits well back George, rather than a three seater. Nice idea though!

The other thing......the next engine to replace the V8. Straight six turbo......sounds like a lovely BMW one 🤓


Edited by Jays (26/10/18 05:56 AM)
_________________________
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#539189 - 26/10/18 07:14 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
ewn Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 1004
Loc: NE Scotland
All good news from my point of view and I’m not surprised that there was already a plan for the future, I’ll start saving now, I’m going to want to buy one.

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#539190 - 26/10/18 07:53 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3376
Loc: Cologne, Germany
All the activities about new developments at Morgan is all very well and good. In addition to all the challenges mentioned here such as price point in the market, quality control, the returnability for MMC and much more, I have another question.

Why happen all the changes now, and all the worse, now all at once, in every respect and for so many models? With the consequence that a part of the type offer is no longer built.

It looks to me like MMC didn't want to recognize the threats, or may be that everything has been carefully planned in secret, but things are taking way too long now.

I wish MCC much success for a great and long future, and I wish myself a new Morgan in the future for 58,000 € or GBP (according to today's value, of course that number might be higher in 5 years) And finally I wish that I still want to have such a new model 5 years from now regarding all the pros and cons of „change“.








Edited by Heinz (26/10/18 08:02 AM)

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#539192 - 26/10/18 08:19 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Fox Terrier Offline

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I would imagine this has been the plan for years. Quite obvious when you think about it. Similar shift to when they went from three wheels to four. Change at Morgan happens at a glacial pace then suddenly a new iceberg calves.
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#539194 - 26/10/18 08:33 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Alistair Online   happy
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One thing I did not say which I should have is that despite it being a little destabilising (quite fairly) in some peoples view I support Morgan's team for choosing to make the decision TO change.

It would be easy to keep on down the same path making trads gradually more efficient and having no halo model. As you all highlight there is a good identifiable customer base. It truth it is a lovely cul-de-sac in the medium term.

So hats off to them for choosing to make change. They know there customer base, I doubt they will isolate them.
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#539210 - 26/10/18 10:10 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Robbie Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2580
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
The real issue is the prospect of a new chassis with a trad body — look at the recent plus8 I think it prospered BECAUSE it had a trad body and we all know that the plus 4 has been the most popular model. The appeal of a Morgan has been the look of a trad with - mostly- modern underpinnings - the Achilles heel being the chassis and ride quality.

Solve this with a new alloy chassis AT A REASONABLE PRICE POINT and the prospects are huge - I suspect the big price rises of the past 2-3 years have been to get to a point where the price of a new car is not too much more

I for one WANT ONE!!!

Cheers!


Edited by Robbie (26/10/18 10:11 AM)
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#539235 - 26/10/18 12:28 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
sospan Offline
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Registered: 31/05/10
Posts: 5814
Loc: Llanelli
The chassis modernisation is a good move. However, what power unit would it carry?
The chassis change is long overdue in a Trad design but the next few years will see emissions as a huge factor. Having shelved the EV3 project (car is too small in my view to house the motor/battery) what are MMC plans to go with Hybrid/EV? That seems to be the route that has been chosen by Governments so legislation will need that development. Will the new chassis be a modified/smaller Aero version or one to incorporate Hybrid/EV needs?
Unless small volume manufacturers get dispensation to stay with ICE units then the project becomes far more than dropping an engine into a chassis as happened when Maurice Owen developed the Plus8.
Also add on crash safety design.......
The project grows!
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#539243 - 26/10/18 01:19 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Alistair Online   happy
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Will it be down to "new cars introduced post the introduction of the new regulations" and not be back applied to existing models? I am guessing that the Trad has got away without needing all the new tweaks by being an old model in effect?

Did all the Aero models also fell under the same overall approvals entitlement?
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#539268 - 26/10/18 03:39 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Jays Offline

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Loc: Cumbria UK
The report mentions the new platform being designed for a range of power units including electric. So Morgan are designing for the future.

They do talk about the “wide bodied” chassis and I wonder how this will translate into a Plus 4 and Roadster that still has the same proportions as now. I’d hate to see all the Trads the same width as the Aero Plus 8.

I assume that as it will be an entirely new platform, the Trads will need to be re homologated which may well bring in requirements such as ABS and traction control etc.

I can see that this is going to be a very hot topic for quite some time🤓
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#539274 - 26/10/18 04:20 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
MDS61 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/07/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Shropshire
Originally Posted By Jays
The report mentions the new platform being designed for a range of power units including electric. So Morgan are designing for the future.

They do talk about the “wide bodied” chassis and I wonder how this will translate into a Plus 4 and Roadster that still has the same proportions as now. I’d hate to see all the Trads the same width as the Aero Plus 8.

I assume that as it will be an entirely new platform, the Trads will need to be re homologated which may well bring in requirements such as ABS and traction control etc.

I can see that this is going to be a very hot topic for quite some time🤓


Nah its run its course now - laugh2
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#539278 - 26/10/18 04:29 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
DaveW Offline
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Registered: 11/12/08
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Originally Posted By Jays
The report mentions the new platform being designed for a range of power units including electric. So Morgan are designing for the future.

They do talk about the “wide bodied” chassis and I wonder how this will translate into a Plus 4 and Roadster that still has the same proportions as now. I’d hate to see all the Trads the same width as the Aero Plus 8.

I assume that as it will be an entirely new platform, the Trads will need to be re homologated which may well bring in requirements such as ABS and traction control etc.

I can see that this is going to be a very hot topic for quite some time🤓


^^^^This is spooking me a bit. I wouldn't want a bloater. I don't mind the look of the 'current' Plus 8, it's grown on me, but as Jays said, the proportions need to be 'right'.

Maybe the 4/4 will continue as it is with evolution.......
Maybe the Plus 4 could be offered with old or new chassis.............

A Roadster with current dimensions on an aluminium chassis would be a real temptation, whether it was V6 or straight 6. I would have to swallow the BMW engine...... innocent swmbo

But I can't see a new spec Roadster coming in at under £75k????
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#539293 - 26/10/18 05:02 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
SimonH Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/02/10
Posts: 658
At no point in the article does it mention the new chassis being used for Trads....
This is Aero et al replacement. The "halo" models in modern industry jargon

Simon @ SiFab.co.uk

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#539295 - 26/10/18 05:12 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
deano Offline

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Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 5235
Loc: Taunton
The article does say the new chassis is in final development and will be used next year with the current traditional body.
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#539300 - 26/10/18 05:37 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
+8Rich Offline

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Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
Yes and it mentions that the model launch will form part of the 110th Anniversary celebrations.
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1999 Indigo +8






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#539301 - 26/10/18 05:41 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: SimonH]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By SimonH
At no point in the article does it mention the new chassis being used for Trads....
This is Aero et al replacement. The "halo" models in modern industry jargon

Simon @ SiFab.co.uk


_________________________
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Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#539309 - 26/10/18 06:34 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Alistair Online   happy
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
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No mention of the EV3 cancellation?
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#539311 - 26/10/18 07:13 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Paul F Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/08/10
Posts: 2114
Loc: Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Originally Posted By Jays
Originally Posted By SimonH
At no point in the article does it mention the new chassis being used for Trads....
This is Aero et al replacement. The "halo" models in modern industry jargon

Simon @ SiFab.co.uk




I did not read “classic architecture” as meaning 4/4, +4 etc. I read it as ICE, gearbox and rear wheel drive.
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Costock, UK
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#539313 - 26/10/18 07:31 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Jays Offline

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Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
You can read it any which way......the proof will be next year.
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Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#539315 - 26/10/18 07:41 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
P Dron Offline

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Registered: 03/06/13
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Originally Posted By Jays
You can read it any which way......the proof will be next year.


In the meantime, you could supply an illustration, Jays. I nearly wrote "a suggestive illustration" but you know what I mean...

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#539331 - 26/10/18 09:05 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Paul F Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/08/10
Posts: 2114
Loc: Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Originally Posted By Jays
You can read it any which way......the proof will be next year.


Agreed
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Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 4
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#539356 - 26/10/18 10:31 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Alistair Online   happy
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Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5292
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Yes everything we say is speculation (but fun) until we see what comes out. It's a big jump for them so I am certain they have gone through it a thousand times.
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#539360 - 26/10/18 10:58 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
My interpretation was that the Classic bodied cars will appear as part of the 110th Anniversary Celebrations supported on the new aluminium bonded stiffer chassis - so we'll see what turns up next year.
Whatever it is they have got my interest.
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1999 Indigo +8






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#539362 - 26/10/18 11:13 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Robbie Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2580
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
Some time ago I believe the dealers were told of a new range of engines for 2019 -- I took that to mean a range from one manufacturer -- What money on a range of BMW engines for a Plus3, Plus4, and Plus6/roadster????
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#539369 - 26/10/18 11:27 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Robbie]
+8Rich Offline

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Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
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I like the sequential thinking - who knows anything is possible..

I'd like to see them stuff a Merc V8 in the "Aero" replacement but will confess to being a little biased grin2 .
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1999 Indigo +8






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#539411 - 27/10/18 12:33 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Robbie]
Lord Sward Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 14/05/14
Posts: 435
Loc: Grim North
Originally Posted By Robbie
Some time ago I believe the dealers were told of a new range of engines for 2019 -- I took that to mean a range from one manufacturer -- What money on a range of BMW engines for a Plus3, Plus4, and Plus6/roadster????


BMW make 4 cylinder engines in Hams Hall, so why not?

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#539446 - 27/10/18 05:06 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Giacomo Bertolio Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 8
My bet is on naturally-aspirated Mazda Sky-activ engines, as in the MX5: 1,5 litre 131 hp for 4/4 and 2,0 litre 184 hp for Plus 4. Morgan already uses Mazda gearboxes. For the Roadster a Ford engine to keep relationship.

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#539447 - 27/10/18 05:09 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Giacomo Bertolio]
P Dron Offline

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Registered: 03/06/13
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Originally Posted By Giacomo Bertolio
My bet is on naturally-aspirated Mazda Sky-activ engines, as in the MX5: 1,5 litre 131 hp for 4/4 and 2,0 litre 184 hp for Plus 4. Morgan already uses Mazda gearboxes. For the Roadster a Ford engine to keep relationship.


Interesting - you may be onto something there.

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#539453 - 27/10/18 05:38 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
PeterG Offline

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Registered: 24/09/12
Posts: 1050
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After a lovely albeit chilly morning blast upto the factory and a very knowledgeable tour guide (you know where to post the cheque Graham wink )and then after much bribery to various Morgan employees (allegedly attempted) all I can just say is, its very nice (supposedly) and based on traditional architecture.... thumbs

I didn't sneak back in after everyone left and I don't have pictures innocent

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#539454 - 27/10/18 05:39 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Alistair]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 21438
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Originally Posted By Alistair
No mention of the EV3 cancellation?

No. As yet, not cancelled (as I wrote elsewhere).
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#539456 - 27/10/18 05:47 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Robbie]
Fox Terrier Offline

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Registered: 05/08/15
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Originally Posted By Robbie
Some time ago I believe the dealers were told of a new range of engines for 2019 -- I took that to mean a range from one manufacturer -- What money on a range of BMW engines for a Plus3, Plus4, and Plus6/roadster????


This is almost a given, and it’s just about certain that the Plus 3 will involve some sort of hybridisation. Remember, you heard it here first!!!
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#539459 - 27/10/18 06:01 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Alistair Online   happy
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Registered: 18/03/09
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It's not just the engine though is it.

I am guessing that given the car is new it will require all the modern electronic, emission, safety and other approvals ? At least the halo model might. From a pre-impact point of view I would quite like a few of them as well.

This means the electronics will need to come along with the engine and gearbox at a guess. Similar to the Aston deal outlined by others with AMG/MB.

BMW brings a lot of post-brexit value with the smaller engines from HH as you mention. Being able to borrow all their electronic gubbins would be good.
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#539462 - 27/10/18 06:06 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
+8Rich Offline

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Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK

And then of course there is the final drive to consider with Holden ceasing production the limited slip diff has gone.

Front wheel drive is a possibility not to be ruled out either - Ford Focus ST engine (up to 370 bhp) and drive train with good electronics package maybe, the guessing is limitless smile

If it comes out looking even a little like this one I'm selling relatives and getting one.... Reggie will too carrot



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1999 Indigo +8






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#539483 - 27/10/18 08:31 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: +8Rich]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Registered: 03/07/07
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Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Holden bought their axles from Dana Spicer (Indonesia).
That's where Morgan now source them.
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'07 MINI Cooper

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#539485 - 27/10/18 08:34 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
+8Rich Offline

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Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
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Thanks Graham.
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#539704 - 29/10/18 10:59 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Gambalunga Offline

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Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 10519
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Am I the only one that thinks a sports car is not all about who has the fastest or most powerful car.

To my mind a sports car should have enough power to out accelerate the average family car. The classic sports cars used, by and large, tuned versions of engines that were used in the family car and were much lighter thereby achieving performance advantages. A sports car should also be able to corner well and be fun to drive.

There are very good reasons why the Toyota MX-5 or Miata is the biggest selling sports car of all time. It simply meets the above criteria at a reasonable cost.

To me Morgan have lost sight of this and unless they work out a way of producing an entry point car at a competitive price they will continue to chase the manufacturers of the GT cars with a quality, fit and finish, that they will be unlikely to match.

Caterham, though very different to the Morgan, seem to have understood the sports car/fun track day car concept and continue to produce cars at a reasonable price for their target market.

At this point I would be unlikely to purchase a new Morgan but certainly wish they had developed the concept more over the years, particularly in the area of chassis design and suspension. Now, for me, it is too late.
_________________________
Peter


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#539705 - 29/10/18 11:01 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Gambalunga]
BobtheTrain Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 4850
Loc: Renfrewshire
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
There are very good reasons why the Toyota MX-5 or Miata is the biggest selling sports car of all time. It simply meets the above criteria at a reasonable cost.


I didn't know that Toyota had taken over Mazda.
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#539706 - 29/10/18 11:04 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: BobtheTrain]
+8Rich Offline

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Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By BobtheTrain
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
There are very good reasons why the Toyota MX-5 or Miata is the biggest selling sports car of all time. It simply meets the above criteria at a reasonable cost.


I didn't know that Toyota had taken over Mazda.


As quick as lightning these takeovers, I hadn't read that either Bob..
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1999 Indigo +8






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#539753 - 29/10/18 03:55 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
auster Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 28/03/15
Posts: 974
Loc: Vienna Austria
I think Peter has hit the little brass tack right on the head. There has to be an entry level Morgan that allows yer average wage earner to at least stand a chance of getting on the Morgan ladder. A few years back a very experienced Morgan dealer said to me "I think Morgans are becoming too expensive" and I fear he might be right. I don't mind there being expensive, fast and flashy Morgans but I would mind if there wasn't one that someone on the average wage could aspire to.
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#539758 - 29/10/18 04:35 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
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Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16772
Loc: South Yorkshire
I couldn't get near a Morgan until I was 55. After a lifetime of Classic cars, the Morgan I wanted was a Trad.Because the Trad epitomises what my motoring was and still is.

A new shape Morgan costing twice+ the price on an Mx5 isn't going to appeal to many younger buyers, because price rules when you're younger.

The 4/4 is bread and butter and in terms of volume, unless the 4/4 continues as it is, it's hard to see how an entry level 4/4 with the new chassis could be made at a similar cost to the current 4/4.

Only time will tell how it all pans out...........
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2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
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#539760 - 29/10/18 04:41 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
I agree with Peter wholeheartedly. Morgan are getting very close to forgetting their roots.......simple and relatively inexpensive sports cars. Now they are aspiring to compete with the likes of Aston Martin. They might do as far as price is concerned, but they will never match design, engineering or standards of finish...apart from paint which they do excel in.
_________________________
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#539764 - 29/10/18 04:45 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: DaveW]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By DaveW
I couldn't get near a Morgan until I was 55. After a lifetime of Classic cars, the Morgan I wanted was a Trad.Because the Trad epitomises what my motoring was and still is.

A new shape Morgan costing twice+ the price on an Mx5 isn't going to appeal to many younger buyers, because price rules when you're younger.

The 4/4 is bread and butter and in terms of volume, unless the 4/4 continues as it is, it's hard to see how an entry level 4/4 with the new chassis could be made at a similar cost to the current 4/4.

Only time will tell how it all pans out...........


Spot on Dave except I was 53 with 3 youngsters to pull at the university purse, they have always had a grass roots model so lets hope they don't reach too far ahead of themselves and fall.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#539765 - 29/10/18 04:46 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: DaveW]
MDS61 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/07/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Shropshire
Originally Posted By DaveW
I couldn't get near a Morgan until I was 55. After a lifetime of Classic cars, the Morgan I wanted was a Trad.Because the Trad epitomises what my motoring was and still is.

A new shape Morgan costing twice+ the price on an Mx5 isn't going to appeal to many younger buyers, because price rules when you're younger.

The 4/4 is bread and butter and in terms of volume, unless the 4/4 continues as it is, it's hard to see how an entry level 4/4 with the new chassis could be made at a similar cost to the current 4/4.

Only time will tell how it all pans out...........


This eek
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#539778 - 29/10/18 06:02 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Gambalunga]
paulmog Offline
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Registered: 27/02/10
Posts: 318
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Am I the only one that thinks a sports car is not all about who has the fastest or most powerful car.

To my mind a sports car should have enough power to out accelerate the average family car. The classic sports cars used, by and large, tuned versions of engines that were used in the family car and were much lighter thereby achieving performance advantages. A sports car should also be able to corner well and be fun to drive.


Agreed - so you're not alone. smile
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70 Black +8
74 Blue 4/4
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17 Green 4/4

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#539807 - 29/10/18 08:44 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: paulmog]
P Dron Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1262
Originally Posted By paulmog
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Am I the only one that thinks a sports car is not all about who has the fastest or most powerful car.

To my mind a sports car should have enough power to out accelerate the average family car. The classic sports cars used, by and large, tuned versions of engines that were used in the family car and were much lighter thereby achieving performance advantages. A sports car should also be able to corner well and be fun to drive.


Agreed - so you're not alone. smile


With drivers of equal ability, a recent 4/4 with unmodified engine (but with a few suspension mods) is roughly on a par with what I would call a 'mild hatch' (ie not quite a 'hot hatch'). And that, to me, is the point of the 4/4 (and of the Plus 4): you have to put in some effort to get the best out of it.

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#539809 - 29/10/18 08:50 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: P Dron]
Paul F Offline

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Loc: Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Originally Posted By P Dron

With drivers of equal ability, a recent 4/4 with unmodified engine (but with a few suspension mods) is roughly on a par with what I would call a 'mild hatch' (ie not quite a 'hot hatch'). And that, to me, is the point of the 4/4 (and of the Plus 4): you have to put in some effort to get the best out of it.


And that why the 4/4 is so much fun.
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#539820 - 29/10/18 09:18 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: P Dron]
Jays Offline

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Originally Posted By P Dron
Originally Posted By paulmog
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Am I the only one that thinks a sports car is not all about who has the fastest or most powerful car.

To my mind a sports car should have enough power to out accelerate the average family car. The classic sports cars used, by and large, tuned versions of engines that were used in the family car and were much lighter thereby achieving performance advantages. A sports car should also be able to corner well and be fun to drive.


Agreed - so you're not alone. smile


With drivers of equal ability, a recent 4/4 with unmodified engine (but with a few suspension mods) is roughly on a par with what I would call a 'mild hatch' (ie not quite a 'hot hatch'). And that, to me, is the point of the 4/4 (and of the Plus 4): you have to put in some effort to get the best out of it.


Performance wise perhaps but I doubt a Trad will handle better than a mild hot hatch on anything other than a perfectly smooth road. More fun though.
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#539830 - 29/10/18 09:44 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
P Dron Offline

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Originally Posted By Jays
Originally Posted By P Dron
Originally Posted By paulmog
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
Am I the only one that thinks a sports car is not all about who has the fastest or most powerful car.

To my mind a sports car should have enough power to out accelerate the average family car. The classic sports cars used, by and large, tuned versions of engines that were used in the family car and were much lighter thereby achieving performance advantages. A sports car should also be able to corner well and be fun to drive.


Agreed - so you're not alone. smile


With drivers of equal ability, a recent 4/4 with unmodified engine (but with a few suspension mods) is roughly on a par with what I would call a 'mild hatch' (ie not quite a 'hot hatch'). And that, to me, is the point of the 4/4 (and of the Plus 4): you have to put in some effort to get the best out of it.


Performance wise perhaps but I doubt a Trad will handle better than a mild hot hatch on anything other than a perfectly smooth road. More fun though.


Handling is not the problem, but in the 4/4 you start with a disadvantage in tyre footprint and braking performance. Also there is a complete absence of electronic get-you-out-of-s.h.i.t systems.

That is why I bought a 4/4.


Edited by P Dron (29/10/18 10:02 PM)

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#539845 - 29/10/18 10:24 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Shooter Offline

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Anyone else see a connection in the look of the drawings and the SLR's?
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#539849 - 29/10/18 10:40 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Shooter]
Malcolm Hoar Offline
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Originally Posted By Shooter
Anyone else see a connection in the look of the drawings and the SLR's?


If Morgan were to go down that route would they be allowed to use the abbreviation SLR ? (and I don't mean self loading rifle.) laugh2
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#539850 - 29/10/18 10:42 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
+8Rich Offline

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Someone way back in the thread saw a similarity.
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#539855 - 29/10/18 11:01 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: BobtheTrain]
Gambalunga Offline

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Originally Posted By BobtheTrain
Originally Posted By Gambalunga
There are very good reasons why the Toyota MX-5 or Miata is the biggest selling sports car of all time. It simply meets the above criteria at a reasonable cost.


I didn't know that Toyota had taken over Mazda.

Oops that's embarrassing. pantsdown I can't even claim a typo. Just put it down to a senior moment oldgit
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#539866 - 30/10/18 05:13 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Stewart S Offline
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Originally Posted By Jays
I agree with Peter wholeheartedly. Morgan are getting very close to forgetting their roots.......simple and relatively inexpensive sports cars. Now they are aspiring to compete with the likes of Aston Martin. They might do as far as price is concerned, but they will never match design, engineering or standards of finish...apart from paint which they do excel in.


I agree J but I think with modern standards and regulations - crash, airbags, ABS etc, it’s now much more difficult to engineer an inexpensive sports car and make it profitably in such small numbers
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#539867 - 30/10/18 05:24 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: +8Rich]
Stewart S Offline
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Originally Posted By +8Rich

And then of course there is the final drive to consider with Holden ceasing production the limited slip diff has gone.

Front wheel drive is a possibility not to be ruled out either - Ford Focus ST engine (up to 370 bhp) and drive train with good electronics package maybe, the guessing is limitless smile

If it comes out looking even a little like this one I'm selling relatives and getting one.... Reggie will too carrot





Wasn’t the new Bristol supposed to look very like this - that didn’t sell, not even 1

Might have had something to do with the £250k price
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#539870 - 30/10/18 07:06 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Jays Offline

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I don’t see anything of the SLR in the rendering in the Autocar report....much more a modern interpretation of the Plus4Plus. Much that I like the SLR design, it isn’t a Morgan design as far as I know. Perhaps they should get Matt Humphreys back to design some thing like the Alcraft GT with a Morgan grill on it.

Rich.....the new Bristol had a similar Barchetta (?) body but with strange tail fins. It was the same proportions at a Plus 8 as it was built on the Aero chassis.
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#539876 - 30/10/18 08:25 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: DaveW]
Rob Thornton Offline

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Registered: 06/07/15
Posts: 192
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By DaveW
I couldn't get near a Morgan until I was 55. After a lifetime of Classic cars, the Morgan I wanted was a Trad.Because the Trad epitomises what my motoring was and still is.

A new shape Morgan costing twice+ the price on an Mx5 isn't going to appeal to many younger buyers, because price rules when you're younger.

The 4/4 is bread and butter and in terms of volume, unless the 4/4 continues as it is, it's hard to see how an entry level 4/4 with the new chassis could be made at a similar cost to the current 4/4.

Only time will tell how it all pans out...........


I think that this way into Morgan ownership, i.e. knowing precisely what one wants and being prepared to wait and save must be reflected in most owners. The wait was tolerated because you knew exactly what you were going to get at the end of it. If Morgan are heading for new designs then I would think that the days of aspiring to ownership and accruing the necessary funds over a period of time are probably over. Most car purchases for a younger age group are now comparison purchases and cost is very high up on the list so for a usable sports car it surely has to be attractive to someone who might be tempted towards the MX5. I have no experience of the auto industry let alone its commercial imperatives but if one works back from the physical aspects of production such as the size and physical qualities of the factory and the numbers and skills of the workforce, both of these will determine what can be produced and what its price will be but, in respect of Morgan, neither of these compare in any way to the production of, say, the MX5 or an Aston Martin. The first relying on volume production for its cost base and the second being reliant on state of the art production, testing and quality control.
I don't envy Morgan trying to come up with something that will either satisfy a new, younger customer base at a price they wish to pay or a group of traditionalists who know what they want, all within the constraints of the site at Pickersleigh Road.
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#539990 - 30/10/18 07:00 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
MJF Offline

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Registered: 04/06/18
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Loc: Bristol
Any connection with all of this and the sale of the Aston Martin Vanquish tooling and design

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#539996 - 30/10/18 07:34 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Alistair Online   happy
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I always thought the SLR was a very attractive design. Not 'Morgan' in the conventional sense but still a real part of history. An update of it would be lovely.

I think MMC have all the panels pre-formed then delivered so it would seem a little unlikely that they have bought the tooling but applause for a great spot of speculation. It would be very cool if it were true. I need salt for that hat?
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#539998 - 30/10/18 07:48 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Ivo Offline
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Hi all smile

Just found this article about the subject thumbs

Sunny greetings,
Ivo
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#540000 - 30/10/18 07:59 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Ivo]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Ivo,
How nice to see you post again! thumbs
I was only wondering a day or two ago where the yellow and black machines were hiding. smile
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#540007 - 30/10/18 08:25 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
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Likewise. Ivo we've missed you!!
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#540010 - 30/10/18 08:46 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: DaveW]
Heinz Offline

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Registered: 07/09/09
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Originally Posted By DaveW
Likewise. Ivo we've missed you!!


+1

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#540012 - 30/10/18 08:59 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Ivo]
Jays Offline

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Loc: Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By Ivo
Hi all smile

Just found this article about the subject thumbs

Sunny greetings,
Ivo


Ah ha.........photos of the new chassis! Interestingly close in dimensions to the Trad chassis!
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#540014 - 30/10/18 09:20 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
P Dron Offline

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[/quote]

Ah ha.........photos of the new chassis! Interestingly close in dimensions to the Trad chassis! [/quote]

But how close in cost?

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#540015 - 30/10/18 09:21 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
SimonH Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/02/10
Posts: 658
Originally Posted By Jays
Originally Posted By Ivo
Hi all smile

Just found this article about the subject thumbs

Sunny greetings,
Ivo


Ah ha.........photos of the new chassis! Interestingly close in dimensions to the Trad chassis!


Dramatically wider though.....

And does look a lot like Aston’s outgoing VH chassis architecture

I got to compare a lot of notes with the Aston designers when they were pinching our cake in the garage at the Britcar 24hr Race in 2007

Simon @ SiFab co.uk

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#540016 - 30/10/18 09:24 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Ivo Offline
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Thank you smile I’m still around and well, same as my yellow/black baby(ies) woohoo Even if I barely write anything, I regularly visit the forum. thumbs


Edited by Ivo (30/10/18 09:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Typing error
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#540028 - 30/10/18 10:58 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: pandy]
Alistair Online   happy
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Originally Posted By pandy




The prototype has been caught in the open already. scared rofl

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#540029 - 30/10/18 10:59 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
+8Rich Offline

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You are spending too much time on Facebook rofl

Pot = Kettle grin2
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#540030 - 30/10/18 11:22 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Stewart S Offline
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rofl rofl

Love it Alistair
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#540047 - 31/10/18 07:26 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: P Dron]
Jays Offline

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Originally Posted By P Dron
[/quote]

Ah ha.........photos of the new chassis! Interestingly close in dimensions to the Trad chassis!


But how close in cost? [/quote]

Not very close by the looks of it!



Plenty of space for a nice BMW straight six 🤓 and a wider and longer cockpit by the looks of it. Just trying to get my head around clothing it in a Trad body and keeping proportions.
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#540067 - 31/10/18 09:33 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
PeterG Offline

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Originally Posted By Jays
Originally Posted By P Dron


Ah ha.........photos of the new chassis! Interestingly close in dimensions to the Trad chassis!


But how close in cost? [/quote]

Not very close by the looks of it!



Plenty of space for a nice BMW straight six 🤓 and a wider and longer cockpit by the looks of it. Just trying to get my head around clothing it in a Trad body and keeping proportions.[/quote]

But looking at the internal rear section of the chassis in the photo, it appears to be squared off like an Aero, as opposed to the aluminium chassis of the Plus 8 which is angled.

Maybe just my eyes but I think this could be the new Aero (6?) Chassis...

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#540069 - 31/10/18 09:40 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
nick w Offline

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Registered: 31/03/09
Posts: 1862
Hell of a transmission tunnel for a trad?

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#540086 - 31/10/18 10:47 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Wonder where/how Pistonheads got the photo?
I now see where the prototype EV3 is hiding smile
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#540093 - 31/10/18 11:22 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: nick w]
CooperMan Offline

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Registered: 19/11/15
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Originally Posted By nick w
Hell of a transmission tunnel for a trad?


The 3.7 Bellhousing & gearbox is massive compared to S1 Roadsters
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#540099 - 31/10/18 11:50 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Peter J Offline
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Nice to see the wooden trestles are still the foundation of the assembly process!
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#540137 - 31/10/18 03:26 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Peter J]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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You sure they're not part of the wood chassis? laugh2
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#540149 - 31/10/18 03:59 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Peter J]
P Dron Offline

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Originally Posted By Peter J
Nice to see the wooden trestles are still the foundation of the assembly process!


Are you sure those are wooden trestles?

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#540161 - 31/10/18 05:02 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: P Dron]
Jays Offline

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Originally Posted By P Dron
Originally Posted By Peter J
Nice to see the wooden trestles are still the foundation of the assembly process!


Are you sure those are wooden trestles?


They are metal trestles. As used in the chassis shop.

The photo by the way G came from Autocar rather than pistonheads so must be an official photo.


Edited by Jays (31/10/18 05:08 PM)
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#540171 - 31/10/18 06:03 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
P Dron Offline

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Registered: 03/06/13
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Originally Posted By Jays
Originally Posted By P Dron
Originally Posted By Peter J
Nice to see the wooden trestles are still the foundation of the assembly process!


Are you sure those are wooden trestles?


They are metal trestles. As used in the chassis shop.

The photo by the way G came from Autocar rather than pistonheads so must be an official photo.


I thought so, John. I tried to upload your nice photo of my 4/4 in build in 2015, on obviously wooden trestles, to show the difference. I haven't cracked it so far, not sure why.

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#540176 - 31/10/18 06:11 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Ah, thanks J.
I missed it in Autocar. Unless it was only on their web site?
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#540185 - 31/10/18 06:31 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Jays]
Peter J Offline
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I sent the photo to a Lotus Obsessed pal and he said that the tub had "Lotus written all over it" and also commented that there was more than enough length for a straight 6.

The present BMW straight 6 is available with one or two turbos and a power output from the B58 of 322 to 382 (single Turbo) and from the S55 (twin turbo) from 405 to over 500bhp.

I have a B58 with 335 bhp in the M140 and it is a delight, instant power, oodles of torque - it peaks at 1520 rpm with 369 ft lbs and is flat from there to 4500 rpm.
The engine is also used in the latest Toyota Supra "J29". I think that makes it good enough for MMC...

I have asked Williams to "register my interest" with MMC.
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#540209 - 31/10/18 07:50 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Peter J]
Jays Offline

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Registered: 08/02/11
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Loc: Cumbria UK
Well Peter, there have been ex Lotus chassis guys working at Morgan for at least three years.....so a good guess!


G......yes, just on the Autocar website!


Edited by Jays (31/10/18 07:51 PM)
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#540314 - 01/11/18 03:53 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
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Look at the bulkheads and there's a RHD and a LHD.

It also looks like if there's to be an ash frame, it will slot over the tub as in the Aero Plus 8.........
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#540325 - 01/11/18 05:39 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
milligoon Offline
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The chassis in the picture is not for the trad, it's for their new expensive range - ie Aero replacement, from how I read the article.

Maybe they will drop a relatively affordable (!) model range all together?
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#552309 - 07/01/19 06:02 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Gambalunga]
middlekingdommog Offline
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Morgan classic cars have increased in price by 25% on average over the past 5 years with no difference in specifications.
NO ABS, Power Steering, AIRCON, Windows, Stereo...
They are pretty but noisy and hard now to justify buying a new one with so much stock available of vehicles which are essentially the same.
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#552341 - 07/01/19 11:49 AM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: middlekingdommog]
Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted By middlekingdommog
Morgan classic cars have increased in price by 25% on average over the past 5 years with no difference in specifications.
NO ABS, Power Steering, AIRCON, Windows, Stereo...
They are pretty but noisy and hard now to justify buying a new one with so much stock available of vehicles which are essentially the same.


I suspect that this has been a deliberate Strategy.

Sales volumes have not fallen.
They built up cash that allowed them to but the factory freehold back
They ramped up R&D significantly

So, when the new models appear at Geneva 2019 I predict that we will see:

A Trad body sitting on the new tub, with a BMW straight 6 and a BMW hybrid 4, priced at about the level of the Roadster, which will disappear.

My prediction for Geneva 2020 is that we will see a smaller 3 cylinder engine, and a hybrid and that will replace the 4/4 and +4.

Geneva 2020 or 21 We should see a further new chassis and an Aeroesque body with a BMW V8 as the flagship, but also with a hybrid 4 for markets where a V8 is bot viable due to taxes on large engines.

By Geneva 2022 there will be fully electric versions of all cars on offer.

But I could be totally wrong!
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#552359 - 07/01/19 01:39 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
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The lifespan of the V6 Roadster will depend on the engine supply contract.
So it may continue for a while.
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#552408 - 07/01/19 05:38 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Stewart S Offline
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Interesting

How long will the steel chassis trad remain available do we think?
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2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#552462 - 07/01/19 10:06 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16772
Loc: South Yorkshire
I can only guess, but maybe two years? The run out models will be interesting/rare/expensive.
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#552561 - 08/01/19 04:59 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Robbie Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2580
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
almost enough to make one book flights to Geneva in March!!!!!!
_________________________
Robbie
Plus4 AM Mendip Blue
09-WX-2269 -- SSL RS & 5L

"Fettlebodge"-- chief of the PaddyMogs

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#552568 - 08/01/19 05:30 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Peter J]
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4326
Loc: East Anglia
Originally Posted By Peter J
Originally Posted By middlekingdommog
Morgan classic cars have increased in price by 25% on average over the past 5 years with no difference in specifications.
NO ABS, Power Steering, AIRCON, Windows, Stereo...
They are pretty but noisy and hard now to justify buying a new one with so much stock available of vehicles which are essentially the same.


I suspect that this has been a deliberate Strategy.

Sales volumes have not fallen.
They built up cash that allowed them to but the factory freehold back
They ramped up R&D significantly

So, when the new models appear at Geneva 2019 I predict that we will see:

A Trad body sitting on the new tub, with a BMW straight 6 and a BMW hybrid 4, priced at about the level of the Roadster, which will disappear.

My prediction for Geneva 2020 is that we will see a smaller 3 cylinder engine, and a hybrid and that will replace the 4/4 and +4.

Geneva 2020 or 21 We should see a further new chassis and an Aeroesque body with a BMW V8 as the flagship, but also with a hybrid 4 for markets where a V8 is bot viable due to taxes on large engines.

By Geneva 2022 there will be fully electric versions of all cars on offer.

But I could be totally wrong!





I hope this all happens , sounds excellent , are the factory noticing our posts as we are the cutting edge of Morgan interested clients !!
_________________________
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .



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#552574 - 08/01/19 05:55 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: madmax]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10764
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By madmax
Originally Posted By Peter J
Originally Posted By middlekingdommog
Morgan classic cars have increased in price by 25% on average over the past 5 years with no difference in specifications.
NO ABS, Power Steering, AIRCON, Windows, Stereo...
They are pretty but noisy and hard now to justify buying a new one with so much stock available of vehicles which are essentially the same.


I suspect that this has been a deliberate Strategy.

Sales volumes have not fallen.
They built up cash that allowed them to but the factory freehold back
They ramped up R&D significantly

So, when the new models appear at Geneva 2019 I predict that we will see:

A Trad body sitting on the new tub, with a BMW straight 6 and a BMW hybrid 4, priced at about the level of the Roadster, which will disappear.

My prediction for Geneva 2020 is that we will see a smaller 3 cylinder engine, and a hybrid and that will replace the 4/4 and +4.

Geneva 2020 or 21 We should see a further new chassis and an Aeroesque body with a BMW V8 as the flagship, but also with a hybrid 4 for markets where a V8 is bot viable due to taxes on large engines.

By Geneva 2022 there will be fully electric versions of all cars on offer.

But I could be totally wrong!





I hope this all happens , sounds excellent , are the factory noticing our posts as we are the cutting edge of Morgan interested clients !!


I know that this place is monitored by MMC.
I've told Mark Leddington that I'm interested in the new Morgans..
But the price will be key....
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#552623 - 08/01/19 08:36 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: flyfisher]
Robbie Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2580
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
Key is the word, Peter also the CO2 levels as this governs the massive extra tax bill over here!
_________________________
Robbie
Plus4 AM Mendip Blue
09-WX-2269 -- SSL RS & 5L

"Fettlebodge"-- chief of the PaddyMogs

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#552627 - 08/01/19 08:53 PM Re: Latest Autocar - 2 new Morgan’s due.. [Re: Peter J]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2403
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By Peter J
Originally Posted By middlekingdommog
Morgan classic cars have increased in price by 25% on average over the past 5 years with no difference in specifications.
NO ABS, Power Steering, AIRCON, Windows, Stereo...
They are pretty but noisy and hard now to justify buying a new one with so much stock available of vehicles which are essentially the same.


I suspect that this has been a deliberate Strategy.


Sales volumes have not fallen.
They built up cash that allowed them to but the factory freehold back
They ramped up R&D significantly

So, when the new models appear at Geneva 2019 I predict that we will see:

A Trad body sitting on the new tub, with a BMW straight 6 and a BMW hybrid 4, priced at about the level of the Roadster, which will disappear.

My prediction for Geneva 2020 is that we will see a smaller 3 cylinder engine, and a hybrid and that will replace the 4/4 and +4.

Geneva 2020 or 21 We should see a further new chassis and an Aeroesque body with a BMW V8 as the flagship, but also with a hybrid 4 for markets where a V8 is bot viable due to taxes on large engines.

By Geneva 2022 there will be fully electric versions of all cars on offer.

But I could be totally wrong!



Interesting post and observations Peter
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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