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Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Craig Jezz] #546955
07/12/18 08:15 PM
07/12/18 08:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,325
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
CooperMan  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,325
Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Here’s mine, 1.6 Sigma engine though



Proper ram air effect thumbs


Jon M
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #546956
07/12/18 08:21 PM
07/12/18 08:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 809
Staffordshire
I
IvorMog Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
IvorMog  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
I

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 809
Staffordshire
I can't comment fully because I don't have a Roadster and the original Cooperman pics don't show the whole intake path. The V6 mustang is a better photo in that respect so if anyone has that perspective from the same model Roadster it would be nice to get that posted here.

However, IMHO what Cooperman has done will not spoil the tuning of the system because it's all on the dirty side of the intake and he has not altered the clean side at all.

By the time the resonance gets through the filter it's strength is gone anyway and as I say, from what I can see, there are no changes between the ports and the filter.

The dirty side of the airbox is there predominantly to make the system quieter and collect cool air.

I'd be interested to see where the throttle body is in the Roadster intake system.


Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #546957
07/12/18 08:29 PM
07/12/18 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,147
Köln, Germany
Heinz Offline
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,147
Köln, Germany
Originally Posted By CooperMan
Thanks for the comments Heinz & Deejay, but if you look at photo 1, the factory solution is just to saw off part of the bottom to create a hole, certainly doesn't look scientifically calculated to me

On the 3 ltr engines all the proper science took place after the throttle body in the intake tracts


Thats what I said also, Jon. I later added some text concerning this issue.

Last edited by Heinz; 07/12/18 11:32 PM.

'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: IvorMog] #546981
07/12/18 11:24 PM
07/12/18 11:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 314
North Somerset, UK
D
Deejay Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Deejay  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
D

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 314
North Somerset, UK
Originally Posted By IvorMog
I can't comment fully because I don't have a Roadster and the original Cooperman pics don't show the whole intake path. The V6 mustang is a better photo in that respect so if anyone has that perspective from the same model Roadster it would be nice to get that posted here.

However, IMHO what Cooperman has done will not spoil the tuning of the system because it's all on the dirty side of the intake and he has not altered the clean side at all.

By the time the resonance gets through the filter it's strength is gone anyway and as I say, from what I can see, there are no changes between the ports and the filter.

The dirty side of the airbox is there predominantly to make the system quieter and collect cool air.

I'd be interested to see where the throttle body is in the Roadster intake system.


I can’t profess to be an expert on this, but I agree that air boxes were originally introduced simply to diminish the induction noise. However, it was then taken a step further by mathematical design, to achieve resonance in the mid range, where torque may typically drop off due to valve overlap on modern engines. Resonant design means that air flow through the box is at a maximum, with little restriction. So that is all happening and remains happening within that particular rev range, on the dirty side, allowing maximum air flow in through the filter to engine. Any large holes cut in the box are bound to upset the point at which resonance occurs and could poorly affect torque where it is most needed. Possibly, what MMC have done by chopping a hole in the bottom is not very scientific but can’t help feeling that even more holes will destroy any resonant capabilities that may have existed.
The argument is easily settled of course by taking it for a thrash but to be more certain, by a dyno-test of before and after.


Doug

2011 +4 in Rich Maroon
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #546993
08/12/18 12:08 AM
08/12/18 12:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,993
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Richard Wood  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,993
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Pic here showing throttle body on 3.7 Roadster.



Short and sweet plumbing between air box and throttle. No silencing chambers. Filter box just beyond top centre. Intake manifold can just be seen bottom right.

Adding weight to the dirty air inlet design discussion its interesting to note that the several after market V6 Mustang cool air tuning kits I looked at all used a custom shaped airbox to enclose a K & N style fabric filter.

Here's a typical one.



Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #547306
10/12/18 01:34 PM
10/12/18 01:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,325
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
CooperMan  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,325
Yorkshire
Not very easy to photograph in a dim garage but this is the location of the factory air in

Bottom of the air filter box, quite a small oblong hole & only a couple of inches above the Clutch bellhousing which gets hot



and close to footwell bulkhead, which can't be good for a smooth flow of cool air



The airbox is pretty simple Ford item, the throttle body is just out of shot under the bonnet hinge



Here...



Jon M
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #547355
10/12/18 07:55 PM
10/12/18 07:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 809
Staffordshire
I
IvorMog Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
IvorMog  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
I

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 809
Staffordshire
By modern automotive standards, the way Morgan have set up the air-box is relatively crude and I can't see why your mod should do any harm. Surely it will allow better quality, cooler air into the system and I really don't think it will affect the resonances of the system.

Is your throttle "fly by wire" and effectively co-located next to the MAF sensor because I can see the MAF but not what I call a conventional throttle body?


Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #547442
11/12/18 12:15 PM
11/12/18 12:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,325
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
CooperMan  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,325
Yorkshire
Bob, yes it's fly by wire you can just see the black cable going in under the bonnet hinge line, the red security clip for the plug can just be seen (part covered)

I assume the problem with the 3.7 rev hang is difficult to cure because of the complexities of fly by wire via the ECU setup, at least on the 3.0 S1 it was cable, and hence driver controlled


Jon M
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #547446
11/12/18 12:31 PM
11/12/18 12:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 809
Staffordshire
I
IvorMog Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
IvorMog  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
I

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 809
Staffordshire
Thanks Jon,

Now I can understand also why the rev hang is such an issue.

The ECU controls the throttle opening and the fuel and ignition. Tricky.


Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #547473
11/12/18 03:06 PM
11/12/18 03:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,822
South Yorkshire
DaveW Online content
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Online Content
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,822
South Yorkshire
The GDI is the same, but without the rev hanging.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4
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