Click here to return to the home page.
Morgan 3 Wheeler
Who's Online
2 registered (Carrotious, N22MOG), 53 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
The winter M3W
SwanMog Christmas party
Finished Plus 4 Side View
Mkiss Mog +4 fourseater
Management of cooling air flow
Newest Topics
Spot lights
by Craig Jezz
18/01/19 11:23 PM
Aero Air Bag Help
by jonathan7barrow
18/01/19 08:05 PM
VDO Clock Set
by AZJowett
18/01/19 06:23 PM
ROY POW power pack gets the Roadster started ...
by dmh
18/01/19 05:57 PM
Workshop Note -Steering Damper
by DaveW
18/01/19 05:19 PM
fan knob only working on one speed
by tom+4
18/01/19 04:49 PM
S&S X-Wedge Manual Found!
by AZJowett
18/01/19 03:22 PM
Newest Members
PJS, 250swb, Mkiss, jacquesj, Dodger
6332 Registered Users
Shout Box

Forum Stats
6,332 Registered Members
33 Forums
33,991 Topics
543,896 Posts

Most users ever online: 341 @ 11/02/18 10:30 PM
Today's Birthdays
BertR
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#547627 - 12/12/18 12:50 AM Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings
kankeL Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 109
Loc: Aptos, CA
_________________________
2016 M3W, Army Green Matte/Tan Leather

Top
#547631 - 12/12/18 04:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9832
Loc: Lancashire, England
Fantastic
A very cool vehicle and one which has an important place in Morgan history
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

Top
#547632 - 12/12/18 05:28 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: Stewart S]
deano Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 5235
Loc: Taunton
Originally Posted By Stewart S
Fantastic
A very cool vehicle and one which has an important place in Morgan history


+1
_________________________
Martin (Deano)

Top
#547658 - 12/12/18 09:56 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18475
Loc: UK
+2
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#547722 - 12/12/18 04:04 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
planenut Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 29/06/12
Posts: 928
Loc: United Kingdom, Lincolnshire

Nice but not so good if you are sat in the righthand seat, unless you have a very narrow bum.

Top
#547744 - 12/12/18 05:39 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Mark H Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 05/01/14
Posts: 1337
Loc: Berkshire, England
I was in contact with Pete Larson back in the day prior to the buyout of the ace & before the M3W was developed and even looked at bringing one into the uk but the cost then was prohibitively expensive- I'd still love to have one though.

Top
#547753 - 12/12/18 06:07 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Pete Larsen used a trailing arm (from a Honda Goldwing I think) for the rear tire's engineering. This avoided the future M3W's Bevel Box issues but made the right hand seat smaller and wedge shaped; would have never been marketable as a RHD that way IMO. In the US, where butts are too big, and we would sit on the larger left seat, this was probably a good thing; passenger just needs a tiny 'pizza shaped' rear!

Hmmmm, how would my wife react to a second expensive and impractical toy? "But honey, I WAS a good boy this year and Santa brought IT to ME; not my fault, I swear!"

I think she might swear too!!!

Here is a side by...


Edited by 3Gs (12/12/18 11:21 PM)

Top
#547756 - 12/12/18 06:13 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18475
Loc: UK
Interesting bit of history of the car there thanks.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#547792 - 12/12/18 09:22 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Michael H Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 29/04/13
Posts: 1111
Loc: Southern Vermont
The Triking with the Moto Guzzi configuration suffers the same right hand miniature butt bottom requirement.

It's still a bunch of fun, however...
_________________________
What's your mileage? Who cares. Is it practical? See #1. What happens when it rains? You get wet.

Top
#547814 - 13/12/18 04:12 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Draggin Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 13/07/15
Posts: 2484
Loc: Detroit, Michigan, USA
They are making a new wider body Triking to fix that
_________________________
kirkusblog.com
2016 M3W John A Prestwich Special

1968 Honda CL175,and 2012 Enfield for sale







Top
#547942 - 13/12/18 10:30 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 826
Loc: Florida, USA
I would sport it if it werent for the price. Im not against the small passenger seat as my wife and I are smaller than most in our waist area. On paper, most else about this car is superior to the Morgan. The only thing I dont like in the looks department are the wider car type tire, but that may be better as well.

Top
#547947 - 13/12/18 11:03 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Michael H Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 29/04/13
Posts: 1111
Loc: Southern Vermont
From everything I have seen and read about, Pete Larson's car did many things better than the current Morgan. His steering design was much better even with the bigger tires. That was one of the first things Morgan threw out due to cost. Like the Triking, all of the tires were the same size which reduced complexity. It's a lighter car as well. Much to admire.
_________________________
What's your mileage? Who cares. Is it practical? See #1. What happens when it rains? You get wet.

Top
#547951 - 14/12/18 12:39 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 74
Loc: CT, USA
"That Moto Guzzi unit has a pretty good balance,” says Larsen, owner of Seattle-based Liberty Motors and designer and builder of the Ace three-wheeler. “The Harley engine will eat transmissions, crack frames and destroy driveshafts.”
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#547952 - 14/12/18 12:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 06032]
06032 Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 74
Loc: CT, USA
Originally Posted By 06032
"That Moto Guzzi unit has a pretty good balance,” says Larsen, owner of Seattle-based Liberty Motors and designer and builder of the Ace three-wheeler. “The Harley engine will eat transmissions, crack frames and destroy driveshafts.”


Here's the full article that may have started it all:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/first-drives/4734497/Liberty-Ace-review.html
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#547956 - 14/12/18 01:07 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 74
Loc: CT, USA
I wonder if a BMW 2-cyl horizontally-opposed 'R' motorcycle engine was ever considered. Seems like it would solve the vibration, tranny and driveshaft issues.

Or even a Mazda wankel/rotary (RX-8) mated to the same tranny. Crap mileage but zoom zoom what a ride! 1.3 liters and 230hp with no power band or vibrations.

Sorry, off-topic....but has me thinking.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#547962 - 14/12/18 07:48 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 06032]
pandy Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 6884
Loc: West Paris, France
Originally Posted By 06032
"That Moto Guzzi unit has a pretty good balance,” says Larsen, owner of Seattle-based Liberty Motors and designer and builder of the Ace three-wheeler. “The Harley engine will eat transmissions, crack frames and destroy driveshafts.”


He's right, of course. It's impossible to achieve perfect primary balance with a 45° V-twin, whereas with a 90° V it is possible..

Sure, the Guzzi engine also has an uneven firing cycle - this is inherent to all V-twins, and a large part of their charm, but unlike a Harley motor, the Guzzi's main interest in life is not in shaking itself to bits.
_________________________
Giles. Mogless in Paris.

Top
#547980 - 14/12/18 09:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Bunny Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 15/03/14
Posts: 669
Loc: Leicestershire, UK
Interesting comment in Peter Dron's book that MMC rejected the (Goldwing) shaft drive as used on the Ace because it caused the rear end to lift under acceleration, particularly when pulling off. This was universally disliked by MMC apparently.
_________________________
Andy

Top
#547999 - 14/12/18 12:32 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
KBMOG Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 304
Loc: North London
The single sided swinging arm which contains the prop shaft tries to climb up around the rear wheel as you pull away.
The amount of lift is dependant on the weight of the vehicle and it's inertial resistance to get moving.
I had a similar thing happem with a BMW sidecar outfit I had years ago, but you do get used to it.

Top
#548005 - 14/12/18 02:51 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 826
Loc: Florida, USA
I have long wondered the same thing about the BMW motorcycles engines making sense for vehicles such as this. Morgan already has a partnership with BMW, so I presume it was a decision based on looks or availability over performance or reliability.

Top
#548008 - 14/12/18 03:12 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: Krod]
Chris99 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 17/07/13
Posts: 2425
Loc: West Sussex, UK
Originally Posted By Krod
I have long wondered the same thing about the BMW motorcycles engines making sense for vehicles such as this. Morgan already has a partnership with BMW, so I presume it was a decision based on looks or availability over performance or reliability.


And character - firing up the S&S big twin is always an event grin2

If you want smoothness wait for the EV3 to be reintroduced
_________________________
Red Leader drive

Top
#548020 - 14/12/18 04:03 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Button Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 19/12/11
Posts: 1585
Loc: Seattle, USA
I once bought a BMW Motorcycle with the idea of making a 3 wheeler. I even had an Artist Drawing of one I liked in particular. Too Old, too expensive and too little time. Gave the Motorcycle away in exchange for repairing rot in a deck of My home. Will post picture.
_________________________
Button

Top
#548034 - 14/12/18 04:50 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
If smooth power delivery is the goal why did this design never catch on?


Top
#548037 - 14/12/18 05:14 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 826
Loc: Florida, USA
That Radial engine Morgan is fantastic, I was always baffled why a 3 cylinder radial Anzani was never added to a Morgan for racing purposes in period.

Top
#548083 - 14/12/18 07:37 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 74
Loc: CT, USA
Character...plus tradition. Perhaps riskier to stray from the iconic V-recipe. Still, when you know up front that the V will cannibalize itself...takes big kahunas to do it anyway.

Thus, a vehicle for wide-eyed enthusiasts!

BTW, I HAD been waiting for the EV3 and was disappointed to hear of its reboot. It's an intriguing platform, if less than intoxicating without the vibrations and rumble. So bit the bullet on a gasser to get into the game. Life is short.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#548084 - 14/12/18 07:39 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
06032 Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 74
Loc: CT, USA
Originally Posted By 3Gs
If smooth power delivery is the goal why did this design never catch on?



Now THAT is cool! Just avoid the angled driveways.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#548109 - 14/12/18 10:07 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Bitsobrits Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 16/02/18
Posts: 60
Loc: SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Can't imagine the radial makes any noise at all.

At least not without plug leads and fuel lines....
_________________________
Steve
2012 M3W #458
SW Iowa


Top
#548127 - 15/12/18 04:34 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: Bitsobrits]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9832
Loc: Lancashire, England
Originally Posted By Bitsobrits
Can't imagine the radial makes any noise at all.

At least not without plug leads and fuel lines....


laugh2

I remember a few years ago on here that someone photoshopped a radial engine on a M3er. It looked very convincing

Just missing a few wing struts, a prop and machine gun
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

Top
#549178 - 20/12/18 06:02 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I feel privileged that I've gotten to know Pete Larsen a bit since becoming an M3W owner, and I've learned much in these discussions about the choices Morgan made after buying Pete's ACE designs. Tires were mentioned earlier on this thread and was one Morgan design changes that I understand was primarily made for aesthetics and cost; I personally would prefer rubber that is designed to take a lateral load and has more contact for a better skid-pad and braking. The seating layout in ACE was a compromise of getting a shaft driven rear and a tire that can be changed without disassembly. I think overall Pete was disappointed that Morgan didn't take his designs to the next level but, as a now Morgan dealer, his opinions are reserved so these are admittedly my conclusions.

I don't think the ACE that Morgan dissected back in the UK was ever put pack together so that leaves 12 ACEs on the planet; now that's rare!

Interesting that this example has a 'Under Morgan Licence' plaque on the dash as it was one of the last three that Morgan let Pete finish after he sold to Morgan, since their builds' were already in-progress.

All of this cool history can be read in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Morgan-3-Wheeler-...71105&psc=1


Edited by 3Gs (20/12/18 06:15 PM)

Top
#549234 - 20/12/18 10:07 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Here is another great article on the ACE:

https://www.jaxworx.com/musings/flying-ace/

Top
#549240 - 20/12/18 10:30 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Online   content
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 116
That was a fine read. Interesting that the author considered the Ace sweet spot as 2-4000 RPM - the S&S on the M3W is more like 3750-4500.

Several people have written about the compromises Morgan made when it adapted the Ace. Some might regret a few of Pete Larsen's ideas that were left behind.

Top
#549248 - 20/12/18 10:50 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: M3W55]
Dan_Lockwood Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/01/14
Posts: 883
Loc: O'Fallon, Missouri USA
Originally Posted By M3W55
That was a fine read. Interesting that the author considered the Ace sweet spot as 2-4000 RPM - the S&S on the M3W is more like 3750-4500.

Several people have written about the compromises Morgan made when it adapted the Ace. Some might regret a few of Pete Larsen's ideas that were left behind.


The S&S Wedge motor is a NON counterbalanced motor and the Harley motor that Pete used were the "B" motor with dual counterbalances. I've ridden several Softail Harleys, all with the "B" motors and you cannot feel a thing as they are REALLY smooth.

That alone would help the rpm range a bit and also Pete's motor were mainly 1450cc and some were the larger 1550cc motors.
_________________________
Dan

Dan's Car - Bike - Projects Photo Albums

Top
#549436 - 21/12/18 07:40 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I found some more ACE pictures.

Even though the ACE is and inch longer, with an identical wheelbase, and a 1.5" narrower front track width it seems much smaller than the M3W. Yes, the ACE is furhter away from the camera in the first pic, so optically it will seem even smaller, but it sure seems much more compact than the M3W. And a pic with Pete himself enjoying ACE #13...




Top
#549723 - 23/12/18 02:45 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Piloto Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/12
Posts: 86
Loc: West Texas/Southern NM
The fact that Lewis, (the author of the ACE review) understands what a Pitts S2S is, qualifies him not only as a gifted writer, but a cognoscenti in the finer things of aviation.
I had been in contact with Pete Larsen when he was building ACE #13, and we had agreed on a price. By the time I blinked, it was gone to Malvern.
I did later buy my M3W from his dealership. It makes a good hangar mate for the Pitts biplane.

Top
#549750 - 23/12/18 09:40 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
bmgermany Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 15/08/14
Posts: 399
Loc: Northern Germany
There seems to be such a large difference between the ACE an the M3W so I wonder "waht kinds of rights Morgan bought with the ACE"??
_________________________
2005 1800ccm 4/4 and a lot of HONDA CX500.......

Top
#550283 - 26/12/18 09:32 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Dead chuffed, I am!

It turns out that I WAS a good boy this year and the wife was not too put out at the news of this addition to our stable!

I've now the title in my hand and ACE#10 is scheduled to be picked up next week for enclosed transport home...

Top
#550301 - 27/12/18 05:02 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
kankeL Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 109
Loc: Aptos, CA
Originally Posted By 3Gs
Dead chuffed, I am!

It turns out that I WAS a good boy this year and the wife was not too put out at the news of this addition to our stable!

I've now the title in my hand and ACE#10 is scheduled to be picked up next week for enclosed transport home...





Congratulations! Please take a lot of photos!
_________________________
2016 M3W, Army Green Matte/Tan Leather

Top
#550307 - 27/12/18 07:28 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
pandy Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 6884
Loc: West Paris, France
Kudos.

That's fantastic. thumbs
_________________________
Giles. Mogless in Paris.

Top
#550474 - 28/12/18 12:14 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 74
Loc: CT, USA
Awesome! Glad to see it stay in the community.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#550489 - 28/12/18 09:30 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Online   content
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 116
Has anyone done a driven comparison between the Ace and the M3W?

Top
#550491 - 28/12/18 09:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
bmgermany Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 15/08/14
Posts: 399
Loc: Northern Germany
Congrats! Nice looking car with interesting (perhaps "better")technique! oops
_________________________
2005 1800ccm 4/4 and a lot of HONDA CX500.......

Top
#550527 - 28/12/18 01:32 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
ShaunD Online   content
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 31/01/17
Posts: 419
Loc: Oxford
Originally Posted By 3Gs
Dead chuffed, I am!

It turns out that I WAS a good boy this year and the wife was not too put out at the news of this addition to our stable!

I've now the title in my hand and ACE#10 is scheduled to be picked up next week for enclosed transport home...

Well done. Enjoy!


Top
#550608 - 28/12/18 09:55 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I definitely look forward to showing many photos and my side by side comparison.

I may even invite Alex Roy for an 'ACE vs M3W' video...

Top
#550711 - 29/12/18 03:58 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Here a a couple scanned pics from ACE#10 during build and in Pete's Liberty motors show room...






Edited by 3Gs (29/12/18 04:33 PM)

Top
#550772 - 29/12/18 10:53 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
truckin-on Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 338
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Congrats 3Gs! Look forward to hearing more about it. A piece of history for sure!

Top
#551037 - 31/12/18 04:41 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Here is an interesting 'full circle'.

Last year, while my 2013 M3W was waiting for upgrade parts, someone posted a pic of it in Pete's Liberty Motors showroom, where ACE#10 had been years before...

(link) Google view of Liberty Motors, Seattle WA.


Edited by 3Gs (31/12/18 04:45 PM)

Top
#551815 - 05/01/19 05:12 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Oh Happy Day, ACE#10 has arrived at her new home!

I wish I could post a side by side with my M3W but she is still at the shop waiting for a new part from Morgan.

The ACE is definitely more compact; hopefully there will be reasonable weather tomorrow for a longer drive than tonight's into the garage from the enclosed transport trailer...


Top
#551817 - 05/01/19 06:28 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Online   content
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 116
Beautiful. There will be a lot of jealous people on this forum.

Top
#551840 - 05/01/19 09:48 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Mark H Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 05/01/14
Posts: 1337
Loc: Berkshire, England
She looks absolutely stunning - well done 3G's

Given all the mods that the M3W has had to go through & given the similarity, I wonder if the Ace will require any preemptive mods or additional chassis bracing🤔

Top
#551926 - 05/01/19 04:13 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 826
Loc: Florida, USA
Im certainly jealous and not shocked to hear that its compact based on previous reviews of it. Would be interested to hear how they compare. Fit/finish, driving characteristics, etc.

Top
#551936 - 05/01/19 05:05 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I'll not imagine that the ACE is perfect and I expect that any true faults will never be widely publicised since there are only twelve left; Morgan dissected ACE#7.

The few authors, that have had a chance to really compare the ACE to M3W, mostly concluded that little was carried through the ACE's design to the Morgan. Peter Dron puzzled over this in writing, "The Morgan Motor Company examined every detail of it [ACE], and completely redesigned and re-engineered it, to the point that one might wonder why they went to the trouble of acquiring the rights to the ACE... As far as I can tell, there is not a single remnant of the ACE to be found in the M3W, though the dimensions are similar." I highly recommend buying Peter Dron's book 'The Morgan 3 Wheeler - Back to the Future!' great information on the M3W, ACE, and other V-Twin up front 3 Wheelers.

Here's another of my first impressions... The seating in the ACE, although nicer for a Driver on the left side, will be a burden for a passenger on the right; the ACE's cockpit is definitely smaller too. The previous owner of ACE#10 overcame this a bit by raising the passenger seat 3" with a removable box. This gets the passenger's bum higher atop the drive tunnel, but it's still quite tight.

Enough typing, it's not raining so time for a drive...

Top
#551957 - 05/01/19 06:56 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
ShaunD Online   content
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 31/01/17
Posts: 419
Loc: Oxford
Looking forward to hearing how your drive went. Happy New Year with your new toy!

Top
#552022 - 06/01/19 12:20 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Wow, ACE#10 is a beast!

The Harley 120R is very powerful and its dual counter balancing keeps it smooth too, this is especially noticeable as RPMs drop to an idle; very little of the shaking that I'm used to with my M3W. With all that power, and still damp roads, care was needed to keep the rear effectively engaged.

The wider front tires do provide additional grip and even with a 20mm wider rear tire it was quite easy to drift the tail at times, especially with a careless right foot.

I'm trying to recall my first M3W drive, and if that had the same 'pucker' factor; regardless, I'll need to maintain a healthy respect here...




Edited by 3Gs (06/01/19 12:21 AM)

Top
#552209 - 06/01/19 05:45 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
Dan_Lockwood Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/01/14
Posts: 883
Loc: O'Fallon, Missouri USA
3Gs, I was going to ask if #10 had an 88" or the 96" "B" motor, but with the 120R "B" motor in your last post, told me the answer.

Pete used a different clutch and I believe the T-5 series 5-speed that's found in the earlier Camaro's etc. I had a couple long e-mails with Pete a few years ago and due to contractual agreement with Morgan, he was not able to continue explaining anything. I understand that. But as you get more used to the Ace, I may have a couple questions for you, definitely no hurry though.

Harley also makes the 120" in a low compression version and that may actually be better suited for the Ace or other facsimile with a Harley motor. Also S&S makes a Hot 124" kit for the pre-'06 "B" motors and that requires case boring, but other than that it has all new innards and new top end with heads and carb etc. It runs around $4,400 plus the machining and labor cost, if you have to farm that out.

Most of Pete's Ace's had the 88" and 96" motors and I believe them to be good performers as well.

I'm sure from the pictures I've downloaded on the Ace that the front end geometry is far superior to the M3W. The front frame area also looked to be a LOT beefier than the M3W and should not be an issue with "A" arms ripping loose or tons of bump steer.

I'm very happy to see one on the forum, congrats!
_________________________
Dan

Dan's Car - Bike - Projects Photo Albums

Top
#552573 - 08/01/19 05:53 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I really think that Pete got the ACE's steering geometry just right. I took some fairly large bumps and the steering was light and precise throughout my inaugural drive.

In my M3W I've got the Empire Kit (now Krazy Horse) but with the Morgan elevated tie rod posts from their 'Comfort Kit'; Morgan's posts are supported at the top, unlike the Empire part (adding this additional reinforcement was Pete's advice too). This double combo of post production parts has made my M3W's steering feel far better than its stock configuration but I'll think still not quite as good as the ACE's.

When my M3W is fixed I'll be able to do a true side by side for comparison...

Top
#553675 - 13/01/19 08:40 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Beautiful day here for the Ace and I...


Top
#553681 - 13/01/19 09:04 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Online   content
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 116
Thankfully it's only the Ox, the Ass and the wife that one should not covet, because I really admire that lovely Ace.

How does the Bevel Box behave?

Top
#553710 - 14/01/19 02:00 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 34
Loc: Seattle, WA.
On the ACE there is no bevel box, belt, or sprocket, just a shaft drive and the back end of a Honda Goldwing; much better power transfer but a compromised right side seat due to the asymmetrical layout.

Look at the previous pic in this thread, of Pete Driving ACE#13, to see how charmed his passenger is with the accommodations.

Ironically the left side seat is then more spacious, and since I'm driving on the left, it seems like a great engineering compromise to me!

Here is a pic of the ACE's cockpit; the first owner built a 3" tall removeable box under the right side passenger seat to improve its width...



Edited by 3Gs (14/01/19 02:11 AM)

Top
#553779 - 14/01/19 01:55 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 826
Loc: Florida, USA
The minor "flaw" in design with the smaller passenger compartment is certainly a good trade-off in my department versus the M3W design flaws.

Top
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 >

Moderator:  Aeroman