Click here to return to the home page.
Morgan 3 Wheeler
Who's Online
7 registered (LightSpeed, Phil Wood, James B W, lloydie99, ChrisConvertible, vincentvg, bilibib), 107 Guests and 13 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Custom made storage box for luggage rack
Southern Weather comes North
Island of Muhu in the rain
65 Plus 4 Four Seater back seat Lift-a-dot studs
Fuel cap seal
Newest Topics
Piston Heads Tues Evening
by lowebird
19/06/19 10:08 AM
Wow - A message for 3 Wheeler owners from MMC
by PaulV
18/06/19 07:22 PM
A message for 3 Wheeler owners from MMC
by TalkMorgan
18/06/19 07:16 PM
A message for 3 Wheeler owners from MMC
by TalkMorgan
18/06/19 07:15 PM
Fabulous "proper" Mini for sale....price WOW
by MDS61
18/06/19 06:30 PM
"Chirp" on cold start up on 1600 Sigma
by Max5
18/06/19 04:57 PM
Morgan plus 6 at VictoryMog2019 21-23 june
by BuyBritish
18/06/19 11:30 AM
Newest Members
PaulyG, René, Bodensee-Mog, Pip, jakexj9000
6556 Registered Users
Shout Box

Forum Stats
6,556 Registered Members
33 Forums
35,398 Topics
571,179 Posts

Most users ever online: 341 @ 11/02/18 10:30 PM
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#547627 - 12/12/18 12:50 AM Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings
kankeL Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Rio Del Mar, CA
_________________________
2016 M3W, Army Green Matte/Tan Leather

Top
#547631 - 12/12/18 04:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 10598
Loc: Lancashire, England
Fantastic
A very cool vehicle and one which has an important place in Morgan history
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

Top
#547632 - 12/12/18 05:28 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: Stewart S]
deano Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 5376
Loc: Taunton
Originally Posted By Stewart S
Fantastic
A very cool vehicle and one which has an important place in Morgan history


+1
_________________________
Martin (Deano)

Top
#547658 - 12/12/18 09:56 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 20034
Loc: Devonshire
+2
_________________________
Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green
1994 Connaught Green +8






Top
#547722 - 12/12/18 04:04 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
planenut Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 29/06/12
Posts: 1016
Loc: United Kingdom, Lincolnshire

Nice but not so good if you are sat in the righthand seat, unless you have a very narrow bum.

Top
#547744 - 12/12/18 05:39 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Mark H Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 05/01/14
Posts: 1417
Loc: Berkshire, England
I was in contact with Pete Larson back in the day prior to the buyout of the ace & before the M3W was developed and even looked at bringing one into the uk but the cost then was prohibitively expensive- I'd still love to have one though.

Top
#547753 - 12/12/18 06:07 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Pete Larsen used a trailing arm (from a Honda Goldwing I think) for the rear tire's engineering. This avoided the future M3W's Bevel Box issues but made the right hand seat smaller and wedge shaped; would have never been marketable as a RHD that way IMO. In the US, where butts are too big, and we would sit on the larger left seat, this was probably a good thing; passenger just needs a tiny 'pizza shaped' rear!

Hmmmm, how would my wife react to a second expensive and impractical toy? "But honey, I WAS a good boy this year and Santa brought IT to ME; not my fault, I swear!"

I think she might swear too!!!

Here is a side by...


Edited by 3Gs (12/12/18 11:21 PM)

Top
#547756 - 12/12/18 06:13 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 20034
Loc: Devonshire
Interesting bit of history of the car there thanks.
_________________________
Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green
1994 Connaught Green +8






Top
#547792 - 12/12/18 09:22 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Michael H Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 29/04/13
Posts: 1192
Loc: Southern Vermont
The Triking with the Moto Guzzi configuration suffers the same right hand miniature butt bottom requirement.

It's still a bunch of fun, however...
_________________________
What's your mileage? Who cares. Is it practical? See #1. What happens when it rains? You get wet.

Top
#547814 - 13/12/18 04:12 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Draggin Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 13/07/15
Posts: 2502
Loc: Detroit, Michigan, USA
They are making a new wider body Triking to fix that
_________________________
kirkusblog.com
2016 M3W John A Prestwich Special

1968 Honda CL175,and 2012 Enfield for sale







Top
#547942 - 13/12/18 10:30 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 835
Loc: Florida, USA
I would sport it if it werent for the price. Im not against the small passenger seat as my wife and I are smaller than most in our waist area. On paper, most else about this car is superior to the Morgan. The only thing I dont like in the looks department are the wider car type tire, but that may be better as well.

Top
#547947 - 13/12/18 11:03 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Michael H Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 29/04/13
Posts: 1192
Loc: Southern Vermont
From everything I have seen and read about, Pete Larson's car did many things better than the current Morgan. His steering design was much better even with the bigger tires. That was one of the first things Morgan threw out due to cost. Like the Triking, all of the tires were the same size which reduced complexity. It's a lighter car as well. Much to admire.
_________________________
What's your mileage? Who cares. Is it practical? See #1. What happens when it rains? You get wet.

Top
#547951 - 14/12/18 12:39 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
"That Moto Guzzi unit has a pretty good balance,” says Larsen, owner of Seattle-based Liberty Motors and designer and builder of the Ace three-wheeler. “The Harley engine will eat transmissions, crack frames and destroy driveshafts.”
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#547952 - 14/12/18 12:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 06032]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
Originally Posted By 06032
"That Moto Guzzi unit has a pretty good balance,” says Larsen, owner of Seattle-based Liberty Motors and designer and builder of the Ace three-wheeler. “The Harley engine will eat transmissions, crack frames and destroy driveshafts.”


Here's the full article that may have started it all:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/first-drives/4734497/Liberty-Ace-review.html
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#547956 - 14/12/18 01:07 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
I wonder if a BMW 2-cyl horizontally-opposed 'R' motorcycle engine was ever considered. Seems like it would solve the vibration, tranny and driveshaft issues.

Or even a Mazda wankel/rotary (RX-8) mated to the same tranny. Crap mileage but zoom zoom what a ride! 1.3 liters and 230hp with no power band or vibrations.

Sorry, off-topic....but has me thinking.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#547962 - 14/12/18 07:48 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 06032]
pandy Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 7342
Loc: West Paris, France
Originally Posted By 06032
"That Moto Guzzi unit has a pretty good balance,” says Larsen, owner of Seattle-based Liberty Motors and designer and builder of the Ace three-wheeler. “The Harley engine will eat transmissions, crack frames and destroy driveshafts.”


He's right, of course. It's impossible to achieve perfect primary balance with a 45° V-twin, whereas with a 90° V it is possible..

Sure, the Guzzi engine also has an uneven firing cycle - this is inherent to all V-twins, and a large part of their charm, but unlike a Harley motor, the Guzzi's main interest in life is not in shaking itself to bits.
_________________________
Giles. Mogless in Paris.

Top
#547980 - 14/12/18 09:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Bunny Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 15/03/14
Posts: 780
Loc: Leicestershire, UK
Interesting comment in Peter Dron's book that MMC rejected the (Goldwing) shaft drive as used on the Ace because it caused the rear end to lift under acceleration, particularly when pulling off. This was universally disliked by MMC apparently.
_________________________
Andy

Top
#547999 - 14/12/18 12:32 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
KBMOG Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 321
Loc: North London
The single sided swinging arm which contains the prop shaft tries to climb up around the rear wheel as you pull away.
The amount of lift is dependant on the weight of the vehicle and it's inertial resistance to get moving.
I had a similar thing happem with a BMW sidecar outfit I had years ago, but you do get used to it.

Top
#548005 - 14/12/18 02:51 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 835
Loc: Florida, USA
I have long wondered the same thing about the BMW motorcycles engines making sense for vehicles such as this. Morgan already has a partnership with BMW, so I presume it was a decision based on looks or availability over performance or reliability.

Top
#548008 - 14/12/18 03:12 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: Krod]
Chris99 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 17/07/13
Posts: 2621
Loc: West Sussex, UK
Originally Posted By Krod
I have long wondered the same thing about the BMW motorcycles engines making sense for vehicles such as this. Morgan already has a partnership with BMW, so I presume it was a decision based on looks or availability over performance or reliability.


And character - firing up the S&S big twin is always an event grin2

If you want smoothness wait for the EV3 to be reintroduced
_________________________
Red Leader drive

Top
#548020 - 14/12/18 04:03 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Button Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 19/12/11
Posts: 1713
Loc: Seattle, USA
I once bought a BMW Motorcycle with the idea of making a 3 wheeler. I even had an Artist Drawing of one I liked in particular. Too Old, too expensive and too little time. Gave the Motorcycle away in exchange for repairing rot in a deck of My home. Will post picture.
_________________________
Button

Top
#548034 - 14/12/18 04:50 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
If smooth power delivery is the goal why did this design never catch on?


Top
#548037 - 14/12/18 05:14 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 835
Loc: Florida, USA
That Radial engine Morgan is fantastic, I was always baffled why a 3 cylinder radial Anzani was never added to a Morgan for racing purposes in period.

Top
#548083 - 14/12/18 07:37 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
Character...plus tradition. Perhaps riskier to stray from the iconic V-recipe. Still, when you know up front that the V will cannibalize itself...takes big kahunas to do it anyway.

Thus, a vehicle for wide-eyed enthusiasts!

BTW, I HAD been waiting for the EV3 and was disappointed to hear of its reboot. It's an intriguing platform, if less than intoxicating without the vibrations and rumble. So bit the bullet on a gasser to get into the game. Life is short.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#548084 - 14/12/18 07:39 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
Originally Posted By 3Gs
If smooth power delivery is the goal why did this design never catch on?



Now THAT is cool! Just avoid the angled driveways.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#548109 - 14/12/18 10:07 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Bitsobrits Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 16/02/18
Posts: 118
Loc: SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Can't imagine the radial makes any noise at all.

At least not without plug leads and fuel lines....
_________________________
Steve
2012 M3W #458
SW Iowa


Top
#548127 - 15/12/18 04:34 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: Bitsobrits]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 10598
Loc: Lancashire, England
Originally Posted By Bitsobrits
Can't imagine the radial makes any noise at all.

At least not without plug leads and fuel lines....


laugh2

I remember a few years ago on here that someone photoshopped a radial engine on a M3er. It looked very convincing

Just missing a few wing struts, a prop and machine gun
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

Top
#549178 - 20/12/18 06:02 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I feel privileged that I've gotten to know Pete Larsen a bit since becoming an M3W owner, and I've learned much in these discussions about the choices Morgan made after buying Pete's ACE designs. Tires were mentioned earlier on this thread and was one Morgan design changes that I understand was primarily made for aesthetics and cost; I personally would prefer rubber that is designed to take a lateral load and has more contact for a better skid-pad and braking. The seating layout in ACE was a compromise of getting a shaft driven rear and a tire that can be changed without disassembly. I think overall Pete was disappointed that Morgan didn't take his designs to the next level but, as a now Morgan dealer, his opinions are reserved so these are admittedly my conclusions.

I don't think the ACE that Morgan dissected back in the UK was ever put pack together so that leaves 12 ACEs on the planet; now that's rare!

Interesting that this example has a 'Under Morgan Licence' plaque on the dash as it was one of the last three that Morgan let Pete finish after he sold to Morgan, since their builds' were already in-progress.

All of this cool history can be read in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Morgan-3-Wheeler-...71105&psc=1


Edited by 3Gs (20/12/18 06:15 PM)

Top
#549234 - 20/12/18 10:07 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Here is another great article on the ACE:

https://www.jaxworx.com/musings/flying-ace/

Top
#549240 - 20/12/18 10:30 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 248
That was a fine read. Interesting that the author considered the Ace sweet spot as 2-4000 RPM - the S&S on the M3W is more like 3750-4500.

Several people have written about the compromises Morgan made when it adapted the Ace. Some might regret a few of Pete Larsen's ideas that were left behind.

Top
#549248 - 20/12/18 10:50 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: M3W55]
Dan_Lockwood Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/01/14
Posts: 926
Loc: O'Fallon, Missouri USA
Originally Posted By M3W55
That was a fine read. Interesting that the author considered the Ace sweet spot as 2-4000 RPM - the S&S on the M3W is more like 3750-4500.

Several people have written about the compromises Morgan made when it adapted the Ace. Some might regret a few of Pete Larsen's ideas that were left behind.


The S&S Wedge motor is a NON counterbalanced motor and the Harley motor that Pete used were the "B" motor with dual counterbalances. I've ridden several Softail Harleys, all with the "B" motors and you cannot feel a thing as they are REALLY smooth.

That alone would help the rpm range a bit and also Pete's motor were mainly 1450cc and some were the larger 1550cc motors.
_________________________
Dan

Dan's Car - Bike - Projects Photo Albums

Top
#549436 - 21/12/18 07:40 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I found some more ACE pictures.

Even though the ACE is and inch longer, with an identical wheelbase, and a 1.5" narrower front track width it seems much smaller than the M3W. Yes, the ACE is furhter away from the camera in the first pic, so optically it will seem even smaller, but it sure seems much more compact than the M3W. And a pic with Pete himself enjoying ACE #13...




Top
#549723 - 23/12/18 02:45 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Piloto Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/12
Posts: 89
Loc: West Texas/Southern NM
The fact that Lewis, (the author of the ACE review) understands what a Pitts S2S is, qualifies him not only as a gifted writer, but a cognoscenti in the finer things of aviation.
I had been in contact with Pete Larsen when he was building ACE #13, and we had agreed on a price. By the time I blinked, it was gone to Malvern.
I did later buy my M3W from his dealership. It makes a good hangar mate for the Pitts biplane.

Top
#549750 - 23/12/18 09:40 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
bmgermany Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 15/08/14
Posts: 472
Loc: Northern Germany
There seems to be such a large difference between the ACE an the M3W so I wonder "waht kinds of rights Morgan bought with the ACE"??
_________________________
2005 1800ccm 4/4 and a lot of HONDA CX500.......

Top
#550283 - 26/12/18 09:32 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Dead chuffed, I am!

It turns out that I WAS a good boy this year and the wife was not too put out at the news of this addition to our stable!

I've now the title in my hand and ACE#10 is scheduled to be picked up next week for enclosed transport home...

Top
#550301 - 27/12/18 05:02 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
kankeL Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 199
Loc: Rio Del Mar, CA
Originally Posted By 3Gs
Dead chuffed, I am!

It turns out that I WAS a good boy this year and the wife was not too put out at the news of this addition to our stable!

I've now the title in my hand and ACE#10 is scheduled to be picked up next week for enclosed transport home...





Congratulations! Please take a lot of photos!
_________________________
2016 M3W, Army Green Matte/Tan Leather

Top
#550307 - 27/12/18 07:28 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
pandy Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 7342
Loc: West Paris, France
Kudos.

That's fantastic. thumbs
_________________________
Giles. Mogless in Paris.

Top
#550474 - 28/12/18 12:14 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
Awesome! Glad to see it stay in the community.
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#550489 - 28/12/18 09:30 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 248
Has anyone done a driven comparison between the Ace and the M3W?

Top
#550491 - 28/12/18 09:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
bmgermany Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 15/08/14
Posts: 472
Loc: Northern Germany
Congrats! Nice looking car with interesting (perhaps "better")technique! oops
_________________________
2005 1800ccm 4/4 and a lot of HONDA CX500.......

Top
#550527 - 28/12/18 01:32 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
ShaunD Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 31/01/17
Posts: 505
Loc: Oxford
Originally Posted By 3Gs
Dead chuffed, I am!

It turns out that I WAS a good boy this year and the wife was not too put out at the news of this addition to our stable!

I've now the title in my hand and ACE#10 is scheduled to be picked up next week for enclosed transport home...

Well done. Enjoy!


Top
#550608 - 28/12/18 09:55 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I definitely look forward to showing many photos and my side by side comparison.

I may even invite Alex Roy for an 'ACE vs M3W' video...

Top
#550711 - 29/12/18 03:58 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Here a a couple scanned pics from ACE#10 during build and in Pete's Liberty motors show room...






Edited by 3Gs (29/12/18 04:33 PM)

Top
#550772 - 29/12/18 10:53 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
truckin-on Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 03/06/16
Posts: 353
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Congrats 3Gs! Look forward to hearing more about it. A piece of history for sure!

Top
#551037 - 31/12/18 04:41 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Here is an interesting 'full circle'.

Last year, while my 2013 M3W was waiting for upgrade parts, someone posted a pic of it in Pete's Liberty Motors showroom, where ACE#10 had been years before...

(link) Google view of Liberty Motors, Seattle WA.


Edited by 3Gs (31/12/18 04:45 PM)

Top
#551815 - 05/01/19 05:12 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Oh Happy Day, ACE#10 has arrived at her new home!

I wish I could post a side by side with my M3W but she is still at the shop waiting for a new part from Morgan.

The ACE is definitely more compact; hopefully there will be reasonable weather tomorrow for a longer drive than tonight's into the garage from the enclosed transport trailer...


Top
#551817 - 05/01/19 06:28 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 248
Beautiful. There will be a lot of jealous people on this forum.

Top
#551840 - 05/01/19 09:48 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Mark H Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 05/01/14
Posts: 1417
Loc: Berkshire, England
She looks absolutely stunning - well done 3G's

Given all the mods that the M3W has had to go through & given the similarity, I wonder if the Ace will require any preemptive mods or additional chassis bracing🤔

Top
#551926 - 05/01/19 04:13 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 835
Loc: Florida, USA
Im certainly jealous and not shocked to hear that its compact based on previous reviews of it. Would be interested to hear how they compare. Fit/finish, driving characteristics, etc.

Top
#551936 - 05/01/19 05:05 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I'll not imagine that the ACE is perfect and I expect that any true faults will never be widely publicised since there are only twelve left; Morgan dissected ACE#7.

The few authors, that have had a chance to really compare the ACE to M3W, mostly concluded that little was carried through the ACE's design to the Morgan. Peter Dron puzzled over this in writing, "The Morgan Motor Company examined every detail of it [ACE], and completely redesigned and re-engineered it, to the point that one might wonder why they went to the trouble of acquiring the rights to the ACE... As far as I can tell, there is not a single remnant of the ACE to be found in the M3W, though the dimensions are similar." I highly recommend buying Peter Dron's book 'The Morgan 3 Wheeler - Back to the Future!' great information on the M3W, ACE, and other V-Twin up front 3 Wheelers.

Here's another of my first impressions... The seating in the ACE, although nicer for a Driver on the left side, will be a burden for a passenger on the right; the ACE's cockpit is definitely smaller too. The previous owner of ACE#10 overcame this a bit by raising the passenger seat 3" with a removable box. This gets the passenger's bum higher atop the drive tunnel, but it's still quite tight.

Enough typing, it's not raining so time for a drive...

Top
#551957 - 05/01/19 06:56 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
ShaunD Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 31/01/17
Posts: 505
Loc: Oxford
Looking forward to hearing how your drive went. Happy New Year with your new toy!

Top
#552022 - 06/01/19 12:20 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Wow, ACE#10 is a beast!

The Harley 120R is very powerful and its dual counter balancing keeps it smooth too, this is especially noticeable as RPMs drop to an idle; very little of the shaking that I'm used to with my M3W. With all that power, and still damp roads, care was needed to keep the rear effectively engaged.

The wider front tires do provide additional grip and even with a 20mm wider rear tire it was quite easy to drift the tail at times, especially with a careless right foot.

I'm trying to recall my first M3W drive, and if that had the same 'pucker' factor; regardless, I'll need to maintain a healthy respect here...




Edited by 3Gs (06/01/19 12:21 AM)

Top
#552209 - 06/01/19 05:45 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
Dan_Lockwood Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/01/14
Posts: 926
Loc: O'Fallon, Missouri USA
3Gs, I was going to ask if #10 had an 88" or the 96" "B" motor, but with the 120R "B" motor in your last post, told me the answer.

Pete used a different clutch and I believe the T-5 series 5-speed that's found in the earlier Camaro's etc. I had a couple long e-mails with Pete a few years ago and due to contractual agreement with Morgan, he was not able to continue explaining anything. I understand that. But as you get more used to the Ace, I may have a couple questions for you, definitely no hurry though.

Harley also makes the 120" in a low compression version and that may actually be better suited for the Ace or other facsimile with a Harley motor. Also S&S makes a Hot 124" kit for the pre-'06 "B" motors and that requires case boring, but other than that it has all new innards and new top end with heads and carb etc. It runs around $4,400 plus the machining and labor cost, if you have to farm that out.

Most of Pete's Ace's had the 88" and 96" motors and I believe them to be good performers as well.

I'm sure from the pictures I've downloaded on the Ace that the front end geometry is far superior to the M3W. The front frame area also looked to be a LOT beefier than the M3W and should not be an issue with "A" arms ripping loose or tons of bump steer.

I'm very happy to see one on the forum, congrats!
_________________________
Dan

Dan's Car - Bike - Projects Photo Albums

Top
#552573 - 08/01/19 05:53 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
I really think that Pete got the ACE's steering geometry just right. I took some fairly large bumps and the steering was light and precise throughout my inaugural drive.

In my M3W I've got the Empire Kit (now Krazy Horse) but with the Morgan elevated tie rod posts from their 'Comfort Kit'; Morgan's posts are supported at the top, unlike the Empire part (adding this additional reinforcement was Pete's advice too). This double combo of post production parts has made my M3W's steering feel far better than its stock configuration but I'll think still not quite as good as the ACE's.

When my M3W is fixed I'll be able to do a true side by side for comparison...

Top
#553675 - 13/01/19 08:40 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Beautiful day here for the Ace and I...


Top
#553681 - 13/01/19 09:04 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
M3W55 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 19/07/18
Posts: 248
Thankfully it's only the Ox, the Ass and the wife that one should not covet, because I really admire that lovely Ace.

How does the Bevel Box behave?

Top
#553710 - 14/01/19 02:00 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
On the ACE there is no bevel box, belt, or sprocket, just a shaft drive and the back end of a Honda Goldwing; much better power transfer but a compromised right side seat due to the asymmetrical layout.

Look at the previous pic in this thread, of Pete Driving ACE#13, to see how charmed his passenger is with the accommodations.

Ironically the left side seat is then more spacious, and since I'm driving on the left, it seems like a great engineering compromise to me!

Here is a pic of the ACE's cockpit; the first owner built a 3" tall removeable box under the right side passenger seat to improve its width...



Edited by 3Gs (14/01/19 02:11 AM)

Top
#553779 - 14/01/19 01:55 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Krod Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 14/07/11
Posts: 835
Loc: Florida, USA
The minor "flaw" in design with the smaller passenger compartment is certainly a good trade-off in my department versus the M3W design flaws.

Top
#557041 - 31/01/19 08:40 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Bunny Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 15/03/14
Posts: 780
Loc: Leicestershire, UK
Just found this on the web. Photo taken at the Liberty Ace factory.

#RearEndEnvy
_________________________
Andy

Top
#557555 - 03/02/19 12:31 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Pete Larson's place is very nice, you could eat off the floor and cool that it's been in his family since 1925.

That's a great pic of the ACE's rear end and you can see the battery leads; battery is that Red Top Optima on the work bench and is mounted on a tray (not installed yet in this pic) just to the left the the training arm bolt you see.

Changing the rear tire is also a straight forward affair.

My M3W was there a while back and someone location-tagged the pics they took that are now on Google... Libery Motors Link


Edited by 3Gs (03/02/19 03:11 AM)

Top
#558002 - 05/02/19 01:49 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Changing the exhaust tips on ACE#10

I never really liked the 'fish tail' originals...


I found some tapered tips; they were cheap so I thought I'd try the look...


I had a feeling the pricier ones would look best, IMO...



Edited by 3Gs (05/02/19 01:52 AM)

Top
#558006 - 05/02/19 06:40 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
Gambalunga Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 11321
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted By 3Gs
Changing the exhaust tips on ACE#10
I found some tapered tips; they were cheap so I thought I'd try the look...


I like the look of the tapered tips. Suits the classic look of the 3 wheeler IMHO.
_________________________
Peter


Top
#558069 - 05/02/19 03:29 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Thanks Peter, a buddy has the same preference for the tapered tips too. Good news is that there are just three screws a side to change them.

I was honestly copying Pete Larsen and his personal ride, ACE#13.

Top
#558119 - 05/02/19 07:32 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: 3Gs]
Gambalunga Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 11321
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Really nice that you have the choice. Shows how clever Pete was to use standard components where possible. thumbs
_________________________
Peter


Top
#558157 - 05/02/19 10:30 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
Just noticing now the 'classic' latches to secure the rear boot cover. I've been thinking of doing the same on my '17. It isn't the front I fear flying off because I forgot to secure it....
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#558169 - 05/02/19 11:15 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
WarBird Offline
WW11 MOG
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 24/01/13
Posts: 604
06032, I wouldn’t unduly worry about the boot cover flying up.

I chased RobP for most of a 6 lap race around Cadwell Park last season. Thought I had a chance of passing him when I saw his boot latches weren’t fastened, but the boot lid just stay closed, even at speeds over 100mph.

Must admit I’m paranoid about mine being undone. I stick a piece of duck tape over, just so I know I’ve fastened them

Top
#558444 - 07/02/19 03:26 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: WarBird]
06032 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 178
Loc: CT, USA
Originally Posted By WarBird
06032, I wouldn’t unduly worry about the boot cover flying up.

I chased RobP for most of a 6 lap race around Cadwell Park last season. Thought I had a chance of passing him when I saw his boot latches weren’t fastened, but the boot lid just stay closed, even at speeds over 100mph.

Must admit I’m paranoid about mine being undone. I stick a piece of duck tape over, just so I know I’ve fastened them


That's encouraging! And FUN!
_________________________
'17 M3W
'08 Ural Gear Up

Top
#558461 - 07/02/19 04:42 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 921
Loc: Yorkshire
I've got quite a few photos of the MTW races at Cadwell last Sept
_________________________
Jon M

Top
#567675 - 20/03/19 07:59 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Yesterday set a high tempall time record for a Winterday of 79 deg F, nice evening for a romp in ACE#10







Edited by 3Gs (20/03/19 08:01 PM)

Top
#567694 - 20/03/19 10:06 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
A few more from yesterday...




Artsy cropping...

Top
#567712 - 21/03/19 12:47 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
Very envious from across the Sound that you are driving the ACE. I am still figuring out the insurance and financing to get the M3W from Pete.
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#568523 - 24/03/19 03:26 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
First Ferry ride for ACE#10 yesterday. Wife and I did a cider run to Finnriver. She likes their cider, the gas station in Chimacum sells Ethanol free fuel, and I got to stretch ACE's legs on some uncrowded roads; treats for everyone!


Top
#568543 - 24/03/19 05:06 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: LightSpeed]
Lance Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/10/07
Posts: 194
Loc: Georgia, USA
Hurry up, Summer is coming.
_________________________
Lance
1981 Plus 8
2016 Three Wheeler
2014 Corvette Stingray Convertible z51

Top
#568583 - 24/03/19 07:01 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
Button Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 19/12/11
Posts: 1713
Loc: Seattle, USA
Take a run down the Western Shore of Hood Canal to Belfair. Than the Ferry from Southward to Fauntleroy. Look to the right as Ferry approaches Fauntleroy. My Home is about a 1/4 mile South on the Water. Come by for a visit. I am looking at a 2012 Trike that Tcherek has for sale.
_________________________
Button

Top
#568587 - 24/03/19 07:11 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
I live in downtown Port Orchard one the water, you drive right by. Free coffee to all who stop😎👍😊


Edited by LightSpeed (24/03/19 07:12 PM)
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#568609 - 24/03/19 07:58 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: LightSpeed]
Button Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 19/12/11
Posts: 1713
Loc: Seattle, USA
Originally Posted By LightSpeed
I live in downtown Port Orchard one the water, you drive right by. Free coffee to all who stop😎👍😊


Make that beer and I will stop by very often.
_________________________
Button

Top
#568639 - 25/03/19 01:40 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
So what beer is your preference for drinking and driving a trike?

I make decen espresso, cappacino and mochas and i roast my own beans.


Edited by LightSpeed (25/03/19 01:41 AM)
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#568764 - 25/03/19 04:11 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
From a couple weeks ago...


Top
#568765 - 25/03/19 04:13 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
rcmatt Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 475
Loc: New River Valley, VA
amazing.... the sun is shining in Seattle!
_________________________
Rodger
2018 M3W
2004 Plus 8 (wife's)
Lots of old Goldwings and a couple of Harleys
Yes, I have MBS

Top
#568828 - 25/03/19 09:25 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: rcmatt]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
Originally Posted By rcmatt
amazing.... the sun is shining in Seattle!


Sunglasses and sunscreen are big sellers here😎
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#568906 - 26/03/19 02:30 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
rcmatt Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 475
Loc: New River Valley, VA
I recall when I was finishing residency (in Portland OR) a recruiter was trying to convince me how romantic it sounded to have a clinic in Puget sound.... I asked her if she knew how many days a year there was rain of drizzle.... sherlock
_________________________
Rodger
2018 M3W
2004 Plus 8 (wife's)
Lots of old Goldwings and a couple of Harleys
Yes, I have MBS

Top
#568914 - 26/03/19 03:20 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
When we moved here from the coast we thought we had moved to the banana belt. Open a clinic in Sequim and you will see that the city banned the word rain when describing Sequim in Chamber of Commerce publications since it rains less there than partsof Southern California.
Perfectt 3 Wheeler weather and probably much like Malvern.
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#568925 - 26/03/19 04:01 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
As someone who was born in Seattle and has lived here my entire life I'll confirm that it rains all the time, we almost don't see daylight in the winter, and mildew is our true state flower (not the Rhododendron).

This is a miserable place and nobody should want to move here, ever.

Top
#568933 - 26/03/19 04:48 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
Ha! And that is the reasonyou stayed? We moved all the way to the west side of the Sound to escape the blight of grey and moss😂
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#568942 - 26/03/19 05:08 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
rcmatt Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 475
Loc: New River Valley, VA
I grew up in Daly City (immediately south of San Francisco) I used to tell people that I was 12 years old the first time I saw the sun and we all ran and hid
_________________________
Rodger
2018 M3W
2004 Plus 8 (wife's)
Lots of old Goldwings and a couple of Harleys
Yes, I have MBS

Top
#575434 - 06/05/19 04:08 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
3Gs Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 83
Loc: Seattle, WA.
Great sunny and warm weekend in Seattle for a drive in ACE#10.


Top
#575534 - 07/05/19 01:36 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
What a beauty, and a great bit of weather for a cruise.
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#575535 - 07/05/19 01:40 AM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: rcmatt]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
Originally Posted By rcmatt
I grew up in Daly City (immediately south of San Francisco) I used to tell people that I was 12 years old the first time I saw the sun and we all ran and hid


You grew up there!?! Maybe you can tell me why they have a Palace for Cows.
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
#575567 - 07/05/19 12:51 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
rcmatt Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 05/02/19
Posts: 475
Loc: New River Valley, VA
So the Republicans could hold their 1964 convention of course. rofl
_________________________
Rodger
2018 M3W
2004 Plus 8 (wife's)
Lots of old Goldwings and a couple of Harleys
Yes, I have MBS

Top
#575571 - 07/05/19 01:16 PM Re: Liberty ACE prototype for sale @ hemmings [Re: kankeL]
LightSpeed Online   content
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 18/02/19
Posts: 610
Loc: Port Orchard Washington, USA
😂😂😂
_________________________
M3W, "Make it so Number One", 2 more weeks, maybe...maybe not...

Top
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Moderator:  Aeroman