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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: DeeDee]
#548570
17/12/18 09:42 PM
17/12/18 09:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 680
IcePack
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 680
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A thread on this a while ago, led me to believe that the rebound spring should just be touching the stub axle, when the car is normally loaded. Have I got this right?
4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: IcePack]
#548577
17/12/18 10:15 PM
17/12/18 10:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,392 East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6
Talk Morgan Addict
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Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,392
East Harling, Norfolk UK
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A thread on this a while ago, led me to believe that the rebound spring should just be touching the stub axle, when the car is normally loaded. Have I got this right? This good advice is based on the fact that any static pre-load on the rebound spring will work initially in parallel with upper compression spring, dramatically increasing spring rate until rebound spring becomes unloaded. A little difficult to get your head around as intuitively the two springs appear to offset each other or work in series. You have to consider they work on opposite sides of stub axle though. Any rebound spring pre-load leads to the afore mentioned high spring rate which then reduces to a much lower linear rate when only upper compression spring is in play. This leaves initial harsh ride followed by soggyness as suspension compresses further, exactly what is not required. A rising rate compression spring would be ideal with no interference from rebound spring, but not sure if such are available.
Richard
2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton" 1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB 1960 Velocette Venom
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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: Gambalunga]
#548582
17/12/18 10:32 PM
17/12/18 10:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,392 East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6
Talk Morgan Addict
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Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,392
East Harling, Norfolk UK
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If there is not stiction one of the effects of this would be more body roll when cornering to the left.
Would that not be when cornering to the right Peter? since that would unload the right hand wheel where the OP has rebound spring play, reducing roll resistance on that side until the rebound spring becomes loaded.
Richard
2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton" 1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB 1960 Velocette Venom
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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: RichardV6]
#548589
17/12/18 11:05 PM
17/12/18 11:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832 Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
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If there is not stiction one of the effects of this would be more body roll when cornering to the left.
Would that not be when cornering to the right Peter? since that would unload the right hand wheel where the OP has rebound spring play, reducing roll resistance on that side until the rebound spring becomes loaded. Oh shoot! You are absolutely correct Richard. I'm so used to sitting on the left when driving I started thinking of the LHS spring as being on the driver's side. What's called a "senior moment" perhaps As Richard points out it is when the rebound spring is loaded in cornering it inhibits the rise on that side of the car.
Peter
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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: DeeDee]
#548602
18/12/18 12:06 AM
18/12/18 12:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943 Seattle, USA
Button
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943
Seattle, USA
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I have never really accepted the idea that the rebound spring should just be kissed. I agree with Hamwich that the rebound spring should engage the bottom of the stub axle about 1/2". Every time I drove the +8 I would check the gap. Sometimes it touched the stub axle, sometimes there would be a 1/2" gap. But even when it touched I was always able to twist the rebound spring. I Emailed Mel Rutter who informed Peter Ballard. Peter stated that until I cured the "Stiction" (His term) I would not have a proper installation. I guess I have given up. Seems to ride OK and handle as good as any other +8. Sometime in the past I removed the cut rebounds and installed a new pair of un-cut springs. The ride was terrible. So there is something to Peter Ballards ideas IMO.
Button
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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: Button]
#548610
18/12/18 03:36 AM
18/12/18 03:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,494 Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich
Needs to Get Out More!
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Needs to Get Out More!
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,494
Gloucestershire, UK
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I have never really accepted the idea that the rebound spring should just be kissed. I agree with Hamwich that the rebound spring should engage the bottom of the stub axle about 1/2". I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Button? I'm with Peter Ballard on this. The rebound spring should be just free to turn when the car is at static ride height with the normal load (ie weight of driver). If the gap is too big, you get a bit of a nasty 'tip in' effect when you corner, the car seems to roll more than it should until the stub axle settles onto the rebound spring.
Tim H. 1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: Hamwich]
#548623
18/12/18 08:59 AM
18/12/18 08:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,515 Powick
tmg513
Talk Morgan Expert
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Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,515
Powick
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I have never really accepted the idea that the rebound spring should just be kissed. I agree with Hamwich that the rebound spring should engage the bottom of the stub axle about 1/2". I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Button? I'm with Peter Ballard on this. The rebound spring should be just free to turn when the car is at static ride height with the normal load (ie weight of driver). If the gap is too big, you get a bit of a nasty 'tip in' effect when you corner, the car seems to roll more than it should until the stub axle settles onto the rebound spring. I can't get my head round this: when I install a new kingpin I have to jack it upwards so that both springs are compressed before I can bolt it in place. There's no way I'd be able to turn the rebound spring at rest. Are the more modern cars (mine's 1972) different?
1972 4/4 2 Seater
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Re: Suspension problem
[Re: Button]
#548636
18/12/18 09:43 AM
18/12/18 09:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,392 East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6
Talk Morgan Addict
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Talk Morgan Addict
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,392
East Harling, Norfolk UK
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I have never really accepted the idea that the rebound spring should just be kissed. I agree with Hamwich that the rebound spring should engage the bottom of the stub axle about 1/2". Every time I drove the +8 I would check the gap. Sometimes it touched the stub axle, sometimes there would be a 1/2" gap. But even when it touched I was always able to twist the rebound spring. I Emailed Mel Rutter who informed Peter Ballard. Peter stated that until I cured the "Stiction" (His term) I would not have a proper installation. I guess I have given up. Seems to ride OK and handle as good as any other +8. Sometime in the past I removed the cut rebounds and installed a new pair of un-cut springs. The ride was terrible. So there is something to Peter Ballards ideas IMO. This article by Peter Ballard best explains Classic Morgan front spring characteristics. I have to agree that if you have excessive stiction of stub axle on king pin then the jury is out on determining static rebound spring pre-load or gap.
Richard
2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton" 1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB 1960 Velocette Venom
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