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#549804 - 23/12/18 11:58 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
NickCW Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 20/02/16
Posts: 1110
Loc: Buckinghamshire
A very nice video and I enjoyed watching it the other night when it was released! That preview does very much sound like a Turboed six, fingers crossed its aforementioned BMW unit.

What is more interesting is that Morgan have said it is not an Aero replacement, hinting that this won't be a flagship. In which case if this is six figures, just how much would the future Aero cost? scared
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#550253 - 26/12/18 06:18 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: NickCW]
TheCoot Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/12/11
Posts: 257
Loc: Midlands
Will there even be a future Aero model???

Automotive trends seem to be away from sports cars. Buyers for sports cars are on the decline and tend to be (dare I say it!!) my generation, one below and all above. The word is younger people are opting for SUV's!! All talk around the new Toyota Supra is that it is good....but is it too late!! I was talking to some people at Jaguar last week and the feeling was that the sports car is a dying breed (as are the buyers) and that SUV's (or sports equivalents like the iPACE) are the future.

Interesting times we live in. For me mind.....it will always be a V8 (guess that makes me a dinosaur!!! rofl)

MMC certainly have some challenges to face in the future.



Edited by TheCoot (26/12/18 06:20 PM)
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#550320 - 27/12/18 09:12 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
NickCW Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 20/02/16
Posts: 1110
Loc: Buckinghamshire
I think the perception amongst some is that the general trend is away from sports cars amongst the general car buying public and has shifted vastly to premium german brands/suv's (now they have affordable PCP deals everywhere), but most of these people would not have been able to afford a sports car before the PCP deals and so I don't feel there has been much change in available buyers.

Jap cars are usually successful if well priced, the EP3 Type R was, its successors were not as they got more expensive. Similar story to the Nissan GTR which is now a lot more expensive and seemingly a lot rarer sight on our roads. The anomaly here is the GT-86 but I think the problem with this car was it was a pipedream, they gave people what they said they wanted.. but actually what people say they want and what they buy are not the same thing!
The Supra faces a tough market and its success will boil down to performance and price in my opinion.

I think the market is still healthy and super/sports cars are big business, if you look at just how many there are at the moment, the popularity of youtubers such as Shmee150 I think it goes to show that the high end performance market is all well and good.
I think Morgan will produce another Aero as I believe it is more supercar than sportscar, and the big profit/headlines are in those models.

Talking of Supercars that raises another interesting question as to what the definition is, the Aero was called a supercar when it was first released, but less so now, is it because the performance is not as impressive as it once was, is it because its front engined (but then a mid-engined Lotus isn't always a supercar either), but that is a topic for another day! cheers
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#550325 - 27/12/18 09:41 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Alistair Online   happy
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5576
Loc: Hampshire
All very true observations that I agree with. Other cars confuse me in the same way as the GT86.

The Caymen should sell in higher numbers given its more accessible pricing and number of Porsche lovers out there. Secondhand versions are really good value.

The power race has certainly ramped up the expectation of a supercar now as others have outlined in the past. 400bhp in all the new uber hatches (from the big german 3+ a few others) is a little nuts but drives marketing and news advertising. I cannot see a BHP cap coming in like the sensible Japanese did all those years ago.

Yet all of this is why I love Morgans market position. Enough horsepower to make it lazy when you feel like but enough fun all the time. I see glimpses of that in things like the Alpine but few other places. Now Lotus are going bhp hunting as well it does make me worry for them.
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#550410 - 27/12/18 05:38 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
TheCoot Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/12/11
Posts: 257
Loc: Midlands
I think you are right, the definition between "sports car" and "super/hyper car" does need defining though.

Whilst there will always be a market for high end super/hyper cars, just as there will always be a market for ocean going yachts and palatial mansions, super/hyper cars are not necessarily what I might describe as "sports" cars. The 1% will always want something out of the reach of the other 99% hence the demand will remain.

But "sports" cars tended to be affordable to the average man on the street (PCP or not i.e. Z4, TT, SLK, MX5) and were not necessarily all about power like super/hyper cars - they may have a standard road car engine but it was how it was applied that deemed it a "sports" car. The GT86 is probably a good modern example of that.

That is where some of the people I have been talking to (in the automotive industry) say the market is in decline. One of the reasons Merc have pulled the SLK and Audi are considering making the next TT with a 4 door variant to appeal to a more family orientated driver.

Personally, I love the thought of the new Supra. A friend of mine has just bought a Cayman and took me out in it - sublime and made me wonder quite where the 911 fits in, other than badge kudos - but that too is for another thread.
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Good things come to those who wait but they've usually been left by those who got there first!


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#550413 - 27/12/18 05:45 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Clipper Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 14/03/12
Posts: 3330
Loc: South Yorks
Renamed it SLC haven't they?
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#550418 - 27/12/18 06:04 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Clipper]
TheCoot Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/12/11
Posts: 257
Loc: Midlands
Yeah they did. Read an article recently saying they had pulled the model altogether as not enough sales.
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Good things come to those who wait but they've usually been left by those who got there first!


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#550475 - 28/12/18 12:24 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: TheCoot]
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 4178
Originally Posted By TheCoot
I think you are right, the definition between "sports car" and "super/hyper car" does need defining though.

Whilst there will always be a market for high end super/hyper cars, just as there will always be a market for ocean going yachts and palatial mansions, super/hyper cars are not necessarily what I might describe as "sports" cars. The 1% will always want something out of the reach of the other 99% hence the demand will remain.

But "sports" cars tended to be affordable to the average man on the street (PCP or not i.e. Z4, TT, SLK, MX5) and were not necessarily all about power like super/hyper cars - they may have a standard road car engine but it was how it was applied that deemed it a "sports" car. The GT86 is probably a good modern example of that.

That is where some of the people I have been talking to (in the automotive industry) say the market is in decline. One of the reasons Merc have pulled the SLK and Audi are considering making the next TT with a 4 door variant to appeal to a more family orientated driver.

Personally, I love the thought of the new Supra. A friend of mine has just bought a Cayman and took me out in it - sublime and made me wonder quite where the 911 fits in, other than badge kudos - but that too is for another thread.



There's a lot to debate in your post. For me a sports car is a 2 seat convertible that car be driven as is in low level motor sport but can do the commute as well. So club hill climbs and sprints for example. Put a hard roof on it and it becomes a GT car.

A GT86 isnt a sports car - its a modern recreation of the Capri and similar - a coupe .

BMW have just introduced the new Z car which Toyota are building as the Supra. Mazda have the MX5 which also appears as a Fiat. There are numeruous others from F type to Corvette plus of course the specialist like TVR ( if they ever get going) Porker and Lotus. So the sports car is far from dead. Its just that the volumes arent worth the effort for the really big volume producers like Merc. Why BMW and GM bother I do not know.

Neither the TT nor the SLK ever were sports cars IMO. Well maybe the AMG SLK was but not the 2 litre diesel thing.

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#550478 - 28/12/18 03:14 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3639
Loc: Cologne, Germany
OK, the following is more about open driving than about sporty cars in general...But maybe you can also refer to sporty cars in general...

If you see the SLC on the Mercedes website, there are as many photos closed as open. And the pictures where you see it open look as if the message were: open as safe and shielded as closed.

https://www.mercedes-benz.de/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/models/slc/slc-roadster/explore/model-year-update.module.html?ef_id=EAIaIQobChMI3fXLw8jB3wIVWOh3Ch0iHAiHEAAYASAAEgJKC_D_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3888!3!229738413499!e!!g!!mercedes%20slc

Then there's a video on the site that doesn't support the open driving category, but instead features the AMG version...with quietly set AMG sound.

From my point of view, the subliminal message means that the category of open driving is no longer used directly for central messages. If you take the intentions of the advertising messages at their word (and you can, because many focus groups with consumers and marketing decisions precede such a presentation), you can say that people are increasingly losing the desire to have fun with their (openly driven) car.

It seems to me as if the former spearhead of the automobile, its open and direct nature, at least in Mercedes communication, disappeared into a defensive.
An SLC is without a doubt still a very good car, but somehow Mercedes doesn't know what to do with it anymore.

It's no longer just the technical safety offered by brands like Mercedes when driving open, it's the problem with the overall feeling of safety. You only drive openly if you feel safe politically, socially and against crime and violence. As if you were driving through the country, as if it is loved and cared for by all people like a large garden. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, insecurity and retreat are the more dominating themes.

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#550483 - 28/12/18 08:13 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Heinz]
Rob Thornton Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/07/15
Posts: 284
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By Heinz


It's no longer just the technical safety offered by brands like Mercedes when driving open, it's the problem with the overall feeling of safety. You only drive openly if you feel safe politically, socially and against crime and violence. As if you were driving through the country, as if it is loved and cared for by all people like a large garden. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, insecurity and retreat are the more dominating themes.

Interesting observations Heinz. This concern for safety, and indeed privacy, even seems to have manifested itself in the need to have darkly tinted rear windows, especially on all new 4 x 4s it seems.
Your points about open motoring and current trends are worth reflecting on. Over the last couple of days and on briefly sunny occasions I have seen a number of open vehicles - mainly Minis and Mercs - whilst out in the Mog. However, unlike us the drivers and their passengers were dressed exactly as they would have been in an enclosed car indicating a, that they were only on short journeys and b, that the comfort levels are now on a par with an enclosed car.
As 'sports car' manufactures have striven for comfort and weather protection as well as performance, Morgan and other classic car owners are now one of the few types of motorists expecting to dress for all that the weather can throw at them. It is this aspect that I think is making open cars less interesting to a new generation of car buyers who expect to walk out of their comfortably heated houses into an equally comfortable car without changing attire.
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