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#548667 - 18/12/18 12:21 PM Good Bye V8...Hello "Something"
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 11373
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Great new video on the MMC You Tube channel.

https://youtu.be/4kJXrjOwEec

A nice retrospective on the V8.....and at the very end a tease of the new "something". No picture, just a noise....
Sounds live a 6 cylinder with "active exhaust"....

I still think it will be the new BMW B58B30M0 Straight 6, putting out 340 hp and a peach of an engine. But it could be the S58, due out next year and with twin turbos putting out, it is reported in the media, up to 500 hp.....

Next year will be interesting.....
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#548676 - 18/12/18 12:52 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
simonjrw Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 29/03/16
Posts: 817
Loc: Upminster, Essex
Promising......
_________________________
Series 1 Aero 8

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#548680 - 18/12/18 01:06 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
KEVFITZ Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 26/09/14
Posts: 1550
Loc: YORK
Well produced video..quite emotive with the promise of something special..roll on Geneva !!!!
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HEAR THOSE THROTTLE BODIES ROAR ….UNEXPLODED BOMB !!!!

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#548682 - 18/12/18 01:09 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: KEVFITZ]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 11373
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By KEVFITZ
Well produced video..quite emotive with the promise of something special..roll on Geneva !!!!


Oh yes...
I asked Mark Leddington at MMC when the order book would open....
He suggested I start saving.
Given Tarka is worth £75k it suggests the new car will be up towards £100k.
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#548687 - 18/12/18 01:35 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 20/04/14
Posts: 3055
Loc: Dorset, UK
And the rest.....
_________________________
Mark - driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink

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#548689 - 18/12/18 01:39 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4586
Loc: East Anglia
Originally Posted By Peter J
Great new video on the MMC You Tube channel.

https://youtu.be/4kJXrjOwEec

A nice retrospective on the V8.....and at the very end a tease of the new "something". No picture, just a noise....
Sounds live a 6 cylinder with "active exhaust"....

I still think it will be the new BMW B58B30M0 Straight 6, putting out 340 hp and a peach of an engine. But it could be the S58, due out next year and with twin turbos putting out, it is reported in the media, up to 500 hp.....

Next year will be interesting.....



Hopefully its the S58 and with some traction control ...
_________________________
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .



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#548698 - 18/12/18 02:36 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: milligoon]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 20051
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By milligoon
And the rest.....



It's yet another example of them giving up on a new younger customer base but hanging onto the older more affluent customers and this will only last so long. Both my son in laws are in a position to buy this type of vehicle but having read the horror stories on here they wouldn't entertain one at any price, this is where the company needs to invest in the quality of the product to make them more appealing to the new exacting customers. They all do that sir won't cut the ice with the youngsters they are not impressed. They are accustomed to the paint staying on the car and water staying outside the car, they love my Plus 8 and expect a good soaking with the roof off but that's a different price point altogether.
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1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green
1994 Connaught Green +8






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#548717 - 18/12/18 04:21 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
deano Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 5377
Loc: Taunton
Great video and I got to know Keith a little while he was working on my plus 8.

I am a v8 guy so the sound of the new engine is not for me. But I am sure Morgan will get the best out of it.
_________________________
Martin (Deano)

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#548720 - 18/12/18 04:31 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: deano]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 22280
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Having owned several straight 6s over the years, they do have their own sound, but nothing as visceral as a V8 smile

B58B30M0 Peter? Must look that up. B58 sounds more like a bomber aircraft grin2
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper

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#548736 - 18/12/18 06:02 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
BobJ Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 03/10/18
Posts: 71
Loc: Buckinghamshire
Having just come from a BMW straight six turbo, that's where I'm putting my money on the basis of the sound tease. Cracking engine.
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2017 4/4 80th Anniversary

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#548742 - 18/12/18 06:11 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
JB62 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 20/03/14
Posts: 372
Loc: Berkshire/Oxon & Devon
All very exciting.

I’ll stick with my V8.
_________________________
V8 Speedster

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#548754 - 18/12/18 06:35 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
TheCustomer Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 13/09/15
Posts: 714
500bhp in an even lighter car would need a whole new level of chassis dynamics (& more traction control than just the driver's right foot!)

Bit by bit I'm getting my Aero built properly - there'll be a long stay at the dealer early next year to put some paint back on, fix some rust, and try to keep the water on the outside.
I've owned two 150,000 mile, 10 year old SAABs that didn't need that kind of attention. And they both cost less than Morgan's carbon hard top.

Will
_________________________
the *other* green Aero 8 S5

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#548765 - 18/12/18 07:03 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 31/05/10
Posts: 6183
Loc: Llanelli
I, too, suspect the new car will be for the top end market. I doubt I will therefore be having one.
I would like to see more done to improve the trads. Why not have projects ongoing with engineers, apprentices, college students?
Examine the Trad and look for engineering improvements and quality enhancement.
New eyes looking at a Trad could lead to big positives.
_________________________
Red Plus8

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#548806 - 18/12/18 09:10 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: sospan]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
There will be forthcoming improvements for the Trads 🤓
_________________________
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#548810 - 18/12/18 09:50 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 2358
Sounds a bit 2JZ or RB26DETT

Hhhmm - films have been made opitomising that engine note
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#548817 - 18/12/18 10:28 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Jays]
Stringers Best Mate Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 16/10/13
Posts: 6302
Loc: Northamptonshire UK
Originally Posted By Jays
There will be forthcoming improvements for the Trads 🤓


All well & good, but as has been said, the price point keeps going up in large leaps. It could be argued that the Morgan Ownership Cycle used to be 4/4 followed by Roadster followed by alloy chassis V8.

I doubt whether that will still be applicable for 2019. Big price hikes usually land after Geneva..

Pay a six figure sum and you demand quality, too..
_________________________
Steve

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#548833 - 19/12/18 12:04 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Aeroman Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 7258
Loc: Eton, Berks
Originally Posted By Peter J
Great new video on the MMC You Tube channel.

https://youtu.be/4kJXrjOwEec

A nice retrospective on the V8.....and at the very end a tease of the new "something". No picture, just a noise....
Sounds live a 6 cylinder with "active exhaust"....

Next year will be interesting.....

Agreed, I really enjoyed it and it is truly the end of an era - the V8 era from the sound of the final exhaust...

Looks like my Plus 8’s are keepers!
_________________________
Brian

Morgan SP1 (Rocket Red)
Morgan Plus 8 (Rocket Blue)
Morgan Plus 8 - Moss Box (Black)

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#548848 - 19/12/18 08:07 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 10604
Loc: Lancashire, England
The noise at the end of the video definitely sounded like .... ..... .... er, ...an engine

Petrol is my guess ooo
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#548866 - 19/12/18 09:21 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: +8Rich]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2677
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By milligoon
And the rest.....



It's yet another example of them giving up on a new younger customer base but hanging onto the older more affluent customers and this will only last so long. Both my son in laws are in a position to buy this type of vehicle but having read the horror stories on here they wouldn't entertain one at any price, this is where the company needs to invest in the quality of the product to make them more appealing to the new exacting customers. They all do that sir won't cut the ice with the youngsters they are not impressed. They are accustomed to the paint staying on the car and water staying outside the car, they love my Plus 8 and expect a good soaking with the roof off but that's a different price point altogether.

+1
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#548873 - 19/12/18 09:42 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
KEVFITZ Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 26/09/14
Posts: 1550
Loc: YORK
oh well if the price of the new edition is beyond my means and as I have no spare body parts to sell I will just have to keep my P4SS and that's that !!!!! ( hurrah !!!!)
_________________________
HEAR THOSE THROTTLE BODIES ROAR ….UNEXPLODED BOMB !!!!

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#548888 - 19/12/18 10:31 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Clipper Online   content

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 14/03/12
Posts: 3383
Loc: South Yorks
My wife complained about the price of the Aero, but she is now managing perfectly well on one kidney - we all have to make sacrifices.
_________________________
2017 Ravenblau Blue Aero 8
2010 Ferrari Blue Plus Four




DHA1G

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#548904 - 19/12/18 11:15 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Stewart S]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 929
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Stewart S
The noise at the end of the video definitely sounded like .... ..... .... er, ...an engine

Petrol is my guess ooo


My money is on this...
BMW are updating the 3 Series, the top spec one will be an M340i, with a new 3.0 straight six, 370bhp engine, six speed manual or eight auto
_________________________
Jon M

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#548909 - 19/12/18 11:38 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: CooperMan]
Jays Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 14003
Loc: Cumbria UK
Originally Posted By CooperMan
Originally Posted By Stewart S
The noise at the end of the video definitely sounded like .... ..... .... er, ...an engine

Petrol is my guess ooo


My money is on this...
BMW are updating the 3 Series, the top spec one will be an M340i, with a new 3.0 straight six, 370bhp engine, six speed manual or eight auto


That would be the perfect engine! Enough power, ok....no V8 but great sound too.
_________________________
Jays
Former Morgan owner. Gone but hopefully not forgotten!

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#548911 - 19/12/18 11:53 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5903
Loc: Hampshire
Also a little room for computer based tweaking once out of warranty. Or even use of the M3 engine in a hot GTN model.
_________________________
Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.

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#548940 - 19/12/18 04:24 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: Cologne, Germany
My blue 1968 family Mercedes sedan is a 2.3 straight six with just 120 HP. But her genes come from the gullwing engine, with aluminum head already at that time. The sound is fantastic, really more beautiful than a V6. No V8 sound, but with its own charm and very very silky and rev willing.
I must honestly admit that the V8 in our old 450SL sometimes gets on my nerves. The bubbling can also be annoying on long distances.

A straight 6 BMW engine in the Morgan could be very interesting if it's not too expensive (and if you are allowed to drive in at least another 10 years).

I have to be quiet so that my beloved 4/4 doesn't hear that...and my wife better also doesn't hear or read it... shades

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#549014 - 19/12/18 09:49 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5903
Loc: Hampshire
The RB26DETT in my old Skyline 33 sounded utterly wonderful as it rev'd out. I do like a V8 but if a BMW IL-6 is the only option then it's a decent one.


Edited by Alistair (19/12/18 09:50 PM)
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#549251 - 20/12/18 11:24 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 20/04/14
Posts: 3055
Loc: Dorset, UK
My next Mog will be Electric, best I start converting my Roadster now, I am sure I could finish it before Morgan pull their finger out (possibly just in time for 2040)
_________________________
Mark - driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink

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#549256 - 21/12/18 07:05 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Aeroman]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 11373
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By Aeroman


Looks like my Plus 8’s are keepers!


Absolutely... Tarka is with us for the long haul. Simply fun to drive.

(When I feel like frightening myself the M140 is perfect)
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#549444 - 21/12/18 08:07 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Alistair]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 2358
Originally Posted By Alistair
The RB26DETT in my old Skyline 33 sounded utterly wonderful as it rev'd out. I do like a V8 but if a BMW IL-6 is the only option then it's a decent one.

Let’s hope it’s a decent one out of the BMW IL6 stable. All are good - just some are better than others.
_________________________




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#549682 - 22/12/18 07:48 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4586
Loc: East Anglia
Originally Posted By Peter J
Originally Posted By Aeroman


Looks like my Plus 8’s are keepers!


Absolutely... Tarka is with us for the long haul. Simply fun to drive.

(When I feel like frightening myself the M140 is perfect)





I have yet to see/hear /enjoy anything that comes close to a new plus 8 !!!!! Especially with side pipes , that sound puts even TVR's on their mettle !
_________________________
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .



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#549804 - 23/12/18 11:58 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
NickCW Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 20/02/16
Posts: 1147
Loc: Buckinghamshire
A very nice video and I enjoyed watching it the other night when it was released! That preview does very much sound like a Turboed six, fingers crossed its aforementioned BMW unit.

What is more interesting is that Morgan have said it is not an Aero replacement, hinting that this won't be a flagship. In which case if this is six figures, just how much would the future Aero cost? scared
_________________________
Aero 8 S1

"What we do in life.. echoes in eternity."

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#550253 - 26/12/18 06:18 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: NickCW]
TheCoot Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/12/11
Posts: 257
Loc: Midlands
Will there even be a future Aero model???

Automotive trends seem to be away from sports cars. Buyers for sports cars are on the decline and tend to be (dare I say it!!) my generation, one below and all above. The word is younger people are opting for SUV's!! All talk around the new Toyota Supra is that it is good....but is it too late!! I was talking to some people at Jaguar last week and the feeling was that the sports car is a dying breed (as are the buyers) and that SUV's (or sports equivalents like the iPACE) are the future.

Interesting times we live in. For me mind.....it will always be a V8 (guess that makes me a dinosaur!!! rofl)

MMC certainly have some challenges to face in the future.



Edited by TheCoot (26/12/18 06:20 PM)
_________________________
Rob
Good things come to those who wait but they've usually been left by those who got there first!


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#550320 - 27/12/18 09:12 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
NickCW Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 20/02/16
Posts: 1147
Loc: Buckinghamshire
I think the perception amongst some is that the general trend is away from sports cars amongst the general car buying public and has shifted vastly to premium german brands/suv's (now they have affordable PCP deals everywhere), but most of these people would not have been able to afford a sports car before the PCP deals and so I don't feel there has been much change in available buyers.

Jap cars are usually successful if well priced, the EP3 Type R was, its successors were not as they got more expensive. Similar story to the Nissan GTR which is now a lot more expensive and seemingly a lot rarer sight on our roads. The anomaly here is the GT-86 but I think the problem with this car was it was a pipedream, they gave people what they said they wanted.. but actually what people say they want and what they buy are not the same thing!
The Supra faces a tough market and its success will boil down to performance and price in my opinion.

I think the market is still healthy and super/sports cars are big business, if you look at just how many there are at the moment, the popularity of youtubers such as Shmee150 I think it goes to show that the high end performance market is all well and good.
I think Morgan will produce another Aero as I believe it is more supercar than sportscar, and the big profit/headlines are in those models.

Talking of Supercars that raises another interesting question as to what the definition is, the Aero was called a supercar when it was first released, but less so now, is it because the performance is not as impressive as it once was, is it because its front engined (but then a mid-engined Lotus isn't always a supercar either), but that is a topic for another day! cheers
_________________________
Aero 8 S1

"What we do in life.. echoes in eternity."

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#550325 - 27/12/18 09:41 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5903
Loc: Hampshire
All very true observations that I agree with. Other cars confuse me in the same way as the GT86.

The Caymen should sell in higher numbers given its more accessible pricing and number of Porsche lovers out there. Secondhand versions are really good value.

The power race has certainly ramped up the expectation of a supercar now as others have outlined in the past. 400bhp in all the new uber hatches (from the big german 3+ a few others) is a little nuts but drives marketing and news advertising. I cannot see a BHP cap coming in like the sensible Japanese did all those years ago.

Yet all of this is why I love Morgans market position. Enough horsepower to make it lazy when you feel like but enough fun all the time. I see glimpses of that in things like the Alpine but few other places. Now Lotus are going bhp hunting as well it does make me worry for them.
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#550410 - 27/12/18 05:38 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
TheCoot Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/12/11
Posts: 257
Loc: Midlands
I think you are right, the definition between "sports car" and "super/hyper car" does need defining though.

Whilst there will always be a market for high end super/hyper cars, just as there will always be a market for ocean going yachts and palatial mansions, super/hyper cars are not necessarily what I might describe as "sports" cars. The 1% will always want something out of the reach of the other 99% hence the demand will remain.

But "sports" cars tended to be affordable to the average man on the street (PCP or not i.e. Z4, TT, SLK, MX5) and were not necessarily all about power like super/hyper cars - they may have a standard road car engine but it was how it was applied that deemed it a "sports" car. The GT86 is probably a good modern example of that.

That is where some of the people I have been talking to (in the automotive industry) say the market is in decline. One of the reasons Merc have pulled the SLK and Audi are considering making the next TT with a 4 door variant to appeal to a more family orientated driver.

Personally, I love the thought of the new Supra. A friend of mine has just bought a Cayman and took me out in it - sublime and made me wonder quite where the 911 fits in, other than badge kudos - but that too is for another thread.
_________________________
Rob
Good things come to those who wait but they've usually been left by those who got there first!


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#550413 - 27/12/18 05:45 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Clipper Online   content

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 14/03/12
Posts: 3383
Loc: South Yorks
Renamed it SLC haven't they?
_________________________
2017 Ravenblau Blue Aero 8
2010 Ferrari Blue Plus Four




DHA1G

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#550418 - 27/12/18 06:04 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Clipper]
TheCoot Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/12/11
Posts: 257
Loc: Midlands
Yeah they did. Read an article recently saying they had pulled the model altogether as not enough sales.
_________________________
Rob
Good things come to those who wait but they've usually been left by those who got there first!


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#550475 - 28/12/18 12:24 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: TheCoot]
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 4305
Originally Posted By TheCoot
I think you are right, the definition between "sports car" and "super/hyper car" does need defining though.

Whilst there will always be a market for high end super/hyper cars, just as there will always be a market for ocean going yachts and palatial mansions, super/hyper cars are not necessarily what I might describe as "sports" cars. The 1% will always want something out of the reach of the other 99% hence the demand will remain.

But "sports" cars tended to be affordable to the average man on the street (PCP or not i.e. Z4, TT, SLK, MX5) and were not necessarily all about power like super/hyper cars - they may have a standard road car engine but it was how it was applied that deemed it a "sports" car. The GT86 is probably a good modern example of that.

That is where some of the people I have been talking to (in the automotive industry) say the market is in decline. One of the reasons Merc have pulled the SLK and Audi are considering making the next TT with a 4 door variant to appeal to a more family orientated driver.

Personally, I love the thought of the new Supra. A friend of mine has just bought a Cayman and took me out in it - sublime and made me wonder quite where the 911 fits in, other than badge kudos - but that too is for another thread.



There's a lot to debate in your post. For me a sports car is a 2 seat convertible that car be driven as is in low level motor sport but can do the commute as well. So club hill climbs and sprints for example. Put a hard roof on it and it becomes a GT car.

A GT86 isnt a sports car - its a modern recreation of the Capri and similar - a coupe .

BMW have just introduced the new Z car which Toyota are building as the Supra. Mazda have the MX5 which also appears as a Fiat. There are numeruous others from F type to Corvette plus of course the specialist like TVR ( if they ever get going) Porker and Lotus. So the sports car is far from dead. Its just that the volumes arent worth the effort for the really big volume producers like Merc. Why BMW and GM bother I do not know.

Neither the TT nor the SLK ever were sports cars IMO. Well maybe the AMG SLK was but not the 2 litre diesel thing.

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#550478 - 28/12/18 03:14 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: Cologne, Germany
OK, the following is more about open driving than about sporty cars in general...But maybe you can also refer to sporty cars in general...

If you see the SLC on the Mercedes website, there are as many photos closed as open. And the pictures where you see it open look as if the message were: open as safe and shielded as closed.

https://www.mercedes-benz.de/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/models/slc/slc-roadster/explore/model-year-update.module.html?ef_id=EAIaIQobChMI3fXLw8jB3wIVWOh3Ch0iHAiHEAAYASAAEgJKC_D_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3888!3!229738413499!e!!g!!mercedes%20slc

Then there's a video on the site that doesn't support the open driving category, but instead features the AMG version...with quietly set AMG sound.

From my point of view, the subliminal message means that the category of open driving is no longer used directly for central messages. If you take the intentions of the advertising messages at their word (and you can, because many focus groups with consumers and marketing decisions precede such a presentation), you can say that people are increasingly losing the desire to have fun with their (openly driven) car.

It seems to me as if the former spearhead of the automobile, its open and direct nature, at least in Mercedes communication, disappeared into a defensive.
An SLC is without a doubt still a very good car, but somehow Mercedes doesn't know what to do with it anymore.

It's no longer just the technical safety offered by brands like Mercedes when driving open, it's the problem with the overall feeling of safety. You only drive openly if you feel safe politically, socially and against crime and violence. As if you were driving through the country, as if it is loved and cared for by all people like a large garden. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, insecurity and retreat are the more dominating themes.

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#550483 - 28/12/18 08:13 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Heinz]
Rob Thornton Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/07/15
Posts: 297
Loc: Reading
Originally Posted By Heinz


It's no longer just the technical safety offered by brands like Mercedes when driving open, it's the problem with the overall feeling of safety. You only drive openly if you feel safe politically, socially and against crime and violence. As if you were driving through the country, as if it is loved and cared for by all people like a large garden. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, insecurity and retreat are the more dominating themes.

Interesting observations Heinz. This concern for safety, and indeed privacy, even seems to have manifested itself in the need to have darkly tinted rear windows, especially on all new 4 x 4s it seems.
Your points about open motoring and current trends are worth reflecting on. Over the last couple of days and on briefly sunny occasions I have seen a number of open vehicles - mainly Minis and Mercs - whilst out in the Mog. However, unlike us the drivers and their passengers were dressed exactly as they would have been in an enclosed car indicating a, that they were only on short journeys and b, that the comfort levels are now on a par with an enclosed car.
As 'sports car' manufactures have striven for comfort and weather protection as well as performance, Morgan and other classic car owners are now one of the few types of motorists expecting to dress for all that the weather can throw at them. It is this aspect that I think is making open cars less interesting to a new generation of car buyers who expect to walk out of their comfortably heated houses into an equally comfortable car without changing attire.
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#550504 - 28/12/18 11:48 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: howard]
TheCoot Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 27/12/11
Posts: 257
Loc: Midlands
I'd agree with a lot of what you say.

Although not sure a "sports" car is necessarily open top...if that were the case...then the E-Type and F-Type convertibles would be "sports" cars and the Coupes are not sports cars! Given I just sold my F Type coupe last week, I can vouch for the fact it most definitely was a "sports" car and one I used every day given it was so easy to live with.

It's a very subjective subject and of course, we're all right since it will mean different things to different people. Great topic mind and perhaps one we should start a new thread on....I can see it running and running cheers


Edited by TheCoot (28/12/18 11:49 AM)
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Good things come to those who wait but they've usually been left by those who got there first!


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#550616 - 29/12/18 12:25 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 20/04/14
Posts: 3055
Loc: Dorset, UK
Maybe a sports car could be equated to a highly strung horse, lovely to look at but do you take it out for a ride?
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#550618 - 29/12/18 01:29 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Rob Thornton]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3842
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Originally Posted By Rob Thornton
Originally Posted By Heinz


It's no longer just the technical safety offered by brands like Mercedes when driving open, it's the problem with the overall feeling of safety. You only drive openly if you feel safe politically, socially and against crime and violence. As if you were driving through the country, as if it is loved and cared for by all people like a large garden. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, insecurity and retreat are the more dominating themes.

Interesting observations Heinz. This concern for safety, and indeed privacy, even seems to have manifested itself in the need to have darkly tinted rear windows, especially on all new 4 x 4s it seems.
Your points about open motoring and current trends are worth reflecting on. Over the last couple of days and on briefly sunny occasions I have seen a number of open vehicles - mainly Minis and Mercs - whilst out in the Mog. However, unlike us the drivers and their passengers were dressed exactly as they would have been in an enclosed car indicating a, that they were only on short journeys and b, that the comfort levels are now on a par with an enclosed car.
As 'sports car' manufactures have striven for comfort and weather protection as well as performance, Morgan and other classic car owners are now one of the few types of motorists expecting to dress for all that the weather can throw at them. It is this aspect that I think is making open cars less interesting to a new generation of car buyers who expect to walk out of their comfortably heated houses into an equally comfortable car without changing attire.


I agree with you very much. Besides the meta level to need more safety in many aspects, the comfort and the soft pampering plays an equally big role, why people don't feel any fun anymore to expose themselves to the elements. One can say that nowadays no marketing guy has the courage to demand something from the users with his product. Because the cars are so pleasing, they are at the same time so boring.

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#550632 - 29/12/18 07:54 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Heinz]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 11373
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Heinz, you say "Because the cars are so pleasing, they are at the same time, so boring".
I feel that the word "car" can be removed from that statement and replaced with almost anything that marketing people want the customers to buy.

As a society we are being softly directed to believe that risk is a bad thing, the stare will always be there to help and make things better. All things dangerous are to be discouraged, wherever possible. It is worth comment that it is now impossible for a vehicle to achieve a 5 Star rating in the Enro NCAP tests without substantial "Safety Assistance" equipment. This stuff sounds good, but it is the start of disengaging the driver from the process.

To pick up on Milligoon's comment, I feel that cars and motoring will become like horse riders, an activity enjoyed by a few, but watched by many. Why do I say this? 90% of the people who watch horse sports, racing, jumping, eventing, etc., neither own horse or have ever ridden one.

Already Formulae 1 is like horse racing, the cars are un-driveable by "Mr Average Motorist", the drivers are celebrities and the whole event is a spectacle, a bit like a horse racing meeting.
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#550641 - 29/12/18 08:52 AM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
tmg513 Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 27/08/08
Posts: 1985
Loc: Powick
Originally Posted By Peter J
Already Formulae 1 is like horse racing, the cars are un-driveable by "Mr Average Motorist", the drivers are celebrities and the whole event is a spectacle, a bit like a horse racing meeting.

That's true of any sport though: if the event wasn't a spectacle there wouldn't be any spectators.
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#550695 - 29/12/18 01:40 PM Re: Good Bye V8...Hello "Something" [Re: Peter J]
Crunchie Gears Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 02/01/14
Posts: 272
Loc: Bracknell
Some of the thoughts on this thread are interesting. Personally I like driving a variety of cars and can get differing enjoyment from driving many of them.

For example I have driven a Jag E Pace recently and have been surprised at the 8 speed ZF box with flappy paddles; it is such a good box and, as the car is not my daily driver, is engaging (familiarity might mean just getting from A to B which it does very well).

That said, I now spend time on simulators. They are getting very good and help improve my driving particularly getting to know new circuits or to look for better lap times. They have now got very accurate models of how many cars perform. Personally I prefer a car to have more oversteer than under and it was interesting when I drove a Caterham Graduate sim round Silverstone. With all the driver aids turned off (it there any other way to drive a sim) It simulates the poor tyres very well and requires you to adapt your driving to get the car turned in, or rotated. If you don’t get the car rotated it understeers and you lose time waiting for the grip to comeback. These are challenges that I do not typically get from road driving.

You can also program how good your robot adversaries are and how aggressive. I have to own that I normally turn damage off so I do not have to visit the pit every lap to get simulated repairs completed.
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