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Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Paul Grout] #549250
20/12/18 11:17 PM
20/12/18 11:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,825
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Richard Wood  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,825
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted By Paul Grout
I did away with the air turbulence inducing plastic airbox,filter and plastic tube on my 2015 Roaster and replaced with aluminum tube and K&N cone filter.Sealed it off from the engine bay and created and air intake that draws cooler ambient air from outside, not preheated by the manifold.
The result is: the engine breaths freely and is really responsive. at higher revs it is very loud and pulls like buggery. At times the noise of the air being sucked into the engine is louder than the outgoing gasses from the Librands sports exhaust. Love it!


Interesting report Paul. Would love to see photo's of your Roadster air inlet installation. Maybe compare it with this ARV6 setup.



Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #549364
21/12/18 03:06 PM
21/12/18 03:06 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,113
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7,113
Llanelli
My Rover V8 car gets very warm under the bonnet. I have done a couple of checks and the incoming air temp is > 20 degC higher than ambient. Based on the assumption of 1% more bhp per 7deg difference in theory I should get 2-3% more bhp. I may look to getting cool air in and see if I can feel a difference. The ultimate test would be a rolling road though. I wonder how the Gems system would react to the cooler air. That is the crux. The MAF is just after the filter box and no easy moving of it without fairly major surgery.
I am not chasing more bhp/torque but cooler air is beckoning.


Red Plus8
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #549428
21/12/18 07:16 PM
21/12/18 07:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,237
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Charter Member
Heinz  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,237
Köln Germany
Do you remember the thread when Lockheed Martin in the USA reported about the investigations in the wind tunnel? At that time, someone (an employee?) had his Rover Plus 8 tested there. The result was very interesting. The engineers' recommendation was to install a base plate in the front. In this way the air can flow through the radiator. This base plate should cover the area from the radiator to the engine.

Since I have an aluminum radiator in my 4/4, two things have changed. And I think it has something to do with the fact that this new radiator is wider and deeper.

The first thing I noticed was that now even more cold fresh air is being sucked up directly behind the radiator. That's good and really noticable during acceleration because my airbox is right behind the radiator...with the intake hole facing down.

The second thing I notice with my 4/4 is negative, but it's also an effect of the larger radiator: There's even less air flowing through the radiator, because the larger amount of fresh air coming from directly behind the radiator in form of an upstream from below will reduce the flow of air through the radiator even more. One air flow blocks the other.

So I notice quite clearly that the engine becomes much warmer at higher speeds, so from 140 km/h, than with the smaller original plastic radiator in the past. If it used to be 90 degrees, it's now 105 degrees.

This is a dilemma, and I want to experiment with a base plate in spring, to block the upstream so that more air flows through the radiator.

At the same time I want to make an opening with a pipe in this new base plate so that the airbox gets cold air, but the radiator continues to have air flowing through it.

In this way, the overall temperature in the engine compartment would have to drop, even in Plus 8.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #549439
21/12/18 07:56 PM
21/12/18 07:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,589
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,589
South Yorkshire
I fitted neoprene side panels inside my cowl to stop air passing either side of the radiator. That's a simple mod using polyethylene (high density) neoprene.

The front of the Trad is messy, and fitting an under-tray between the cross-head and engine was an early mod. All that takes is a piece of sheet aluminium (cut to shape). You don't need to drill the chassis because it can be fixed securely with overlapping penny washers.

When I ran my Roadster with a front spoiler, the ducted air was directed onto the bottom radiator tank, and the under-tray kept it in the engine bay until it could spill out around the exhausts.

At that time I didn't have the confidence to make a curved front valance. Once I could I removed the spoiler, but there's no obvious difference in cooling.

Cain has been experimenting with a super undertray around his engine, and talking to him it seems he's found a big difference.

So anything you can do to tidy up the messy airflow has a good chance of reducing temperature, and might even reduce drag!


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Heinz] #549446
21/12/18 08:14 PM
21/12/18 08:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,128
Staffordshire
IvorMog Offline
Has a lot to Say!
IvorMog  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,128
Staffordshire
Originally Posted By Heinz
Do you remember the thread when Lockheed Martin in the USA reported about the investigations in the wind tunnel? At that time, someone (an employee?) had his Rover Plus 8 tested there. The result was very interesting. The engineers' recommendation was to install a base plate in the front. In this way the air can flow through the radiator. This base plate should cover the area from the radiator to the engine.

Since I have an aluminum radiator in my 4/4, two things have changed. And I think it has something to do with the fact that this new radiator is wider and deeper.

The first thing I noticed was that now even more cold fresh air is being sucked up directly behind the radiator. That's good and really noticable during acceleration because my airbox is right behind the radiator...with the intake hole facing down.

The second thing I notice with my 4/4 is negative, but it's also an effect of the larger radiator: There's even less air flowing through the radiator, because the larger amount of fresh air coming from directly behind the radiator in form of an upstream from below will reduce the flow of air through the radiator even more. One air flow blocks the other.

So I notice quite clearly that the engine becomes much warmer at higher speeds, so from 140 km/h, than with the smaller original plastic radiator in the past. If it used to be 90 degrees, it's now 105 degrees.

This is a dilemma, and I want to experiment with a base plate in spring, to block the upstream so that more air flows through the radiator.

At the same time I want to make an opening with a pipe in this new base plate so that the airbox gets cold air, but the radiator continues to have air flowing through it.

In this way, the overall temperature in the engine compartment would have to drop, even in Plus 8.


Heinz, quick but maybe stupid question.
When you changed the radiator did you change anything else?
Thermostat maybe?
Hope my question doesn't seem insulting.


Bob

1999 4/4 2 litre Zetec
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Richard Wood] #549457
21/12/18 09:28 PM
21/12/18 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13
P
Paul Grout Offline
New to Talk Morgan
Paul Grout  Offline
New to Talk Morgan
P

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13
HI Richard.
I would post you some photos if I could work out how to compress to the required size on my windows 7 lap top.

Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #549458
21/12/18 09:29 PM
21/12/18 09:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,237
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Charter Member
Heinz  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,237
Köln Germany
IvorMog, your Q is in no way insulting. All good:)
The thermostat remained and it works. It is just the new effect when I drive faster than lets say 130 km/h. There is a significant hotter engine temprature than with the original smaller radiator. Normally you will expect a better coolant capacitiy with the bigger surface of the new aluminium one. And this works as expected e.g. when being in a stop and go situation.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Heinz] #549550
22/12/18 10:23 AM
22/12/18 10:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Lincolnshire
Guten Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Guten  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Lincolnshire
I have the same problem but it's always been there, fitted an aluminium rad, still the same, fitted an aluminium block plate from the base of the intake behind the grill shaped down to the bottom of the rad to prevent spillage, not sure about the result of this because I did it recently after the cold weather started but it looks like it'll be the same so it's interesting to read about the air pressure build up in the engine bay, hadn't thought of that with all those louvres facing aft. I'll wait till warm weather and bear that in mind.


Simon
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Paul Grout] #549563
22/12/18 10:48 AM
22/12/18 10:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,268
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,268
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Originally Posted By Paul Grout
HI Richard.
I would post you some photos if I could work out how to compress to the required size on my windows 7 lap top.

Take a look here: https://www.tm-img.com/page/ifu
Join TM-IMG (if you don't have an alternative photo hosting site available) and post links to your photos stored there smile


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'06 Saab 9-3 Convertible
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #549592
22/12/18 01:52 PM
22/12/18 01:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,369
C
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
cerealsurfer  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
C

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,369
I ran a full valance (not just flap) and flat floor under the engine on my 4/4 racer. It makes a lot of positive difference in terms of managing airflow correctly.





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