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#549534 - 22/12/18 09:34 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: ChrisConvertible]
pandy Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 6884
Loc: West Paris, France
Originally Posted By ChrisConvertible

Build a Suffolk SS100 - more expensive than a Morgan but not a lot more in Australia as the donor cars are so cheap. I liked the SS100 and one of those would be pretty interesting as well.


Welcome Chris.

What an agreeable problem to have.

I fancy building an SS100 or maybe a Triking when I finally pack it in, it would be a great retirement project. How is Australia about that building kit-cars or one-offs ? The whole business of Australian conformity as seen with the mods that were required for the M3W seemed painful in the extreme.

I wouldn't be put off by scare stories on Morgan build quality. The newer cars are way better built than they used to be back in the day, and very many of the older ones will have been cherished and improved by loving owners, so overcoming any original shortcomings. I bought my 4/4 Sport new in 2011 and ran it for 5 years - as a daily driver so long as it wasn't looking like rain. I put 30 000km on it, and it was 100% reliable and completely trouble free. I sold it after 5 years for very nearly what I paid for it new, in all some of the cheapest and most enjoyable motoring I've ever enjoyed.


Edited by pandy (22/12/18 09:35 AM)
_________________________
Giles. Mogless in Paris.

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#549535 - 22/12/18 09:34 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: ChrisConvertible]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2405
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By ChrisConvertible
Hi Everyone,

I joined mainly to be able to read posts with all the pictures.

I have just turned 55 and for the last 35 years thought I would be buying a Morgan at this age, now the time has come I am trying to work out if that is still really what I want to do. I retired from work in October as I get a much better pension leaving at 55 than working any later as I would be transferred into a different scheme for people over 55.

I thought it would be easy to return to work to fund a Morgan however they just had to lay 300 people off, my boss is confident he can get me back mid next year once the budget sorts itself out. So potentially I could afford to order a new Morgan Plus 4 say mid 2020 next year as I would have both my pension and an income to help save up, I am just trying to decide should I.

I currently own a Nissan Silvia convertible that is very rare, about 500 made in 1988 and not a lot left in the world, it is a lot of fun to drive but not worth much money and while it luckily uses a lot of parts in common with other Nissans it is impossible to get parts for like the rubbers seals around the windows if I wanted to properly restore it.

The week I resigned I went to the Australian Morgan Muster to see the cars and try make up my mind if I now still want one, but I left more confused than before. I had a fair few people tell me they have had heaps of issues with their cars and they would think twice before buying another one, but then many other people telling me I should definitely get one as they are so much fun. A few people said they thought my car looked more interesting and is probably a lot rarer than a Morgan so as long as I enjoy driving it they would recommend sticking with what I have. The people who said my car is rarer would be right, there would have been more Morgan's in the carpark that day than Nissan Silvia convertibles left in the world. Over the weekend I did about 800km's on some great roads and I had so much fun in my car I think it would be hard for another car to be a lot better as far as fun is concerned. The main things I did learn was,

1, Overall I think the newer ones look nicer which I think is due to the body being slightly lower, slightly wider and longer.
2 The various options are stupidly expensive for what they are but if you buy the basic car you will probably be pretty disappointed later on as the options are what makes the car unique.
3 I had a ride as a passenger in a 1980 V8, a restored one from 1952 and sat in a GDI demonstrator and none were really comfortable but the GDI +4 was a lot better.
6, Quality control seems pretty terrible and Morgan don’t seem to help much for after sales issues, but if you are reasonably handy then they are pretty simple cars and you can fix most issues yourself.
7, They do dent pretty easy, one guy with a nearly new one said he only went to a shopping centre once and he got a small dent when he dropped a shopping bag on it from not much height at all. So really just a weekend toy to take out for a country drive.

I have a couple of Morgan books including "Making a Morgan" that seems to imply the cars are made with a lot of love, and "Buying and Maintaining a modern Morgan" by David Welling that has lots of improvements owners can do, which sort if implies the factory could do things a lot better, which seemed to be confirmed when I went to the Morgan Muster.

Before the Silvia convertible i owned a Honda S600 then a Mazda MX5 (Miata) and would say my greatest joy is a driving a convertible on a windy road doing a perfectly executed down change when I match the revs perfectly. Initially one main reason I wanted a Morgan as I thought it would be a manual convertible that is perfect rather than the Honda S600 that I spent more time fixing than driving.

I have a few options and trying to decide between them.

1, Keep my Silvia that is fun and owes me nothing. Then I can either enjoy early retirement and not return to work at all, or the extra money I earn returning to work can be used for other things like good holidays.
2, Buy a MGB as I have always like the look of them, they seem good value for a classic car with lots of specialist repair places and heaps of spare parts available.
3, Order a new Morgan Plus 4 as per my dream of 35 years.
4, Build a Suffolk SS100 - more expensive than a Morgan but not a lot more in Australia as the donor cars are so cheap. I liked the SS100 and one of those would be pretty interesting as well.

Part of my issue is my wife doesn't like my Silvia and doesn't really like being in a sports car at all, so unlike most of you I would not do a lot of travelling in it as a couple, just probably going for drives on my own.

None of my family are into cars and all think I am crazy for even thinking about spending lots of money on a new car now when they are all going to be electric in a few years. I don't think so but we are being told all the time the rest of the world is electric and so will Australia in a year or two.

My wife is planning to retire in 2020 and does want to travel so as long as I don't make her spend the whole holiday at the factory she would be OK with that. So around 2020 or 2021 could be a good time for me to make a purchase and visit the factory while the car is being made.

But there area few things I am confused about
1, The anniversary model is for 2019 and I would save about $10,000, what is Morgan going to do with the Plus 4 in 2020 - just put the price back up?
2, What is this Wide body model I have read about? It seems like a new chassis to replace either the Aero 8 but somewhere I read suggested it might be used on the classic models? If so does that mean a complete redesign of the classic models and a huge price increase or they just get a bit wider and that could be a really good thing as it would be easier for my potential passengers to fit in the car.

I have read on another forum that Morgan are more interested in the Aero style as it makes them a lot more money and are probably going to drop the classic model after 2019. However looking at the productions figures the 3 wheeler is selling the most with the 4/4 the next best selling car by a big margin. I think the 4/4 is being discontinued due to the engine not passing emissions tests in which case surely the +4 would probably sell more being the closest in both style and price. Any thoughts on the classics being dropped a year before I think I could get one?

Thanks
Chris


Chris, I was at the Muster, sorry I missed you. If you really want a Morgan a good well sorted second hand one is definitely the way to go in my view.

Think long and hard before you spend a lot of money for a lot of grief on a new one - that's my experience.
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#549537 - 22/12/18 09:37 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: Stringers Best Mate]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2405
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By Stringers Best Mate
Hello Chris & welcome..

If only we could look into the future, eh..?

1. In recent years the factory have announced price hikes annually around Spring time, so the Anniversary Deal sounds good..

2. The Wide body was introduced around the Millennium or a shade earlier I believe, and all body tubs are now standardised in size regardless of engine, the differing overall widths being down to wheel offsets and tyre sizes.

In truth, the factory have announced nothing publicly save for the fact that the UK market will have the Sigma 1600 engine fitment paused due to non compliance with legislation. The car is still thought to be continued for overseas markets.

Popular opinion has it that an alloy chassis car will be revealed at the Geneva 2019 show.

Everything else is just conjecture, so talk to a dealer or two for the official lines.

Whether you should wait to buy or not is down to you, but what I will say is follow your heart because tomorrow may never come.. Life is like that.

Good hunting..!


SBM, perhaps you should give Chris your recommendation for a M3W....
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#549543 - 22/12/18 09:56 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: ChrisConvertible]
Jack The Lad Offline
Posting Desperado
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 7593
Loc: The frozen North
Only you can answer your question with a simple YES or No.

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#549555 - 22/12/18 10:32 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: OZ 4/4]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2405
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By OZ 4/4
Originally Posted By ChrisConvertible
Hi Everyone,

I joined mainly to be able to read posts with all the pictures.

I have just turned 55 and for the last 35 years thought I would be buying a Morgan at this age, now the time has come I am trying to work out if that is still really what I want to do. I retired from work in October as I get a much better pension leaving at 55 than working any later as I would be transferred into a different scheme for people over 55.

I thought it would be easy to return to work to fund a Morgan however they just had to lay 300 people off, my boss is confident he can get me back mid next year once the budget sorts itself out. So potentially I could afford to order a new Morgan Plus 4 say mid 2020 next year as I would have both my pension and an income to help save up, I am just trying to decide should I.

I currently own a Nissan Silvia convertible that is very rare, about 500 made in 1988 and not a lot left in the world, it is a lot of fun to drive but not worth much money and while it luckily uses a lot of parts in common with other Nissans it is impossible to get parts for like the rubbers seals around the windows if I wanted to properly restore it.

The week I resigned I went to the Australian Morgan Muster to see the cars and try make up my mind if I now still want one, but I left more confused than before. I had a fair few people tell me they have had heaps of issues with their cars and they would think twice before buying another one, but then many other people telling me I should definitely get one as they are so much fun. A few people said they thought my car looked more interesting and is probably a lot rarer than a Morgan so as long as I enjoy driving it they would recommend sticking with what I have. The people who said my car is rarer would be right, there would have been more Morgan's in the carpark that day than Nissan Silvia convertibles left in the world. Over the weekend I did about 800km's on some great roads and I had so much fun in my car I think it would be hard for another car to be a lot better as far as fun is concerned. The main things I did learn was,

1, Overall I think the newer ones look nicer which I think is due to the body being slightly lower, slightly wider and longer.
2 The various options are stupidly expensive for what they are but if you buy the basic car you will probably be pretty disappointed later on as the options are what makes the car unique.
3 I had a ride as a passenger in a 1980 V8, a restored one from 1952 and sat in a GDI demonstrator and none were really comfortable but the GDI +4 was a lot better.
6, Quality control seems pretty terrible and Morgan don’t seem to help much for after sales issues, but if you are reasonably handy then they are pretty simple cars and you can fix most issues yourself.
7, They do dent pretty easy, one guy with a nearly new one said he only went to a shopping centre once and he got a small dent when he dropped a shopping bag on it from not much height at all. So really just a weekend toy to take out for a country drive.

I have a couple of Morgan books including "Making a Morgan" that seems to imply the cars are made with a lot of love, and "Buying and Maintaining a modern Morgan" by David Welling that has lots of improvements owners can do, which sort if implies the factory could do things a lot better, which seemed to be confirmed when I went to the Morgan Muster.

Before the Silvia convertible i owned a Honda S600 then a Mazda MX5 (Miata) and would say my greatest joy is a driving a convertible on a windy road doing a perfectly executed down change when I match the revs perfectly. Initially one main reason I wanted a Morgan as I thought it would be a manual convertible that is perfect rather than the Honda S600 that I spent more time fixing than driving.

I have a few options and trying to decide between them.

1, Keep my Silvia that is fun and owes me nothing. Then I can either enjoy early retirement and not return to work at all, or the extra money I earn returning to work can be used for other things like good holidays.
2, Buy a MGB as I have always like the look of them, they seem good value for a classic car with lots of specialist repair places and heaps of spare parts available.
3, Order a new Morgan Plus 4 as per my dream of 35 years.
4, Build a Suffolk SS100 - more expensive than a Morgan but not a lot more in Australia as the donor cars are so cheap. I liked the SS100 and one of those would be pretty interesting as well.

Part of my issue is my wife doesn't like my Silvia and doesn't really like being in a sports car at all, so unlike most of you I would not do a lot of travelling in it as a couple, just probably going for drives on my own.

None of my family are into cars and all think I am crazy for even thinking about spending lots of money on a new car now when they are all going to be electric in a few years. I don't think so but we are being told all the time the rest of the world is electric and so will Australia in a year or two.

My wife is planning to retire in 2020 and does want to travel so as long as I don't make her spend the whole holiday at the factory she would be OK with that. So around 2020 or 2021 could be a good time for me to make a purchase and visit the factory while the car is being made.

But there area few things I am confused about
1, The anniversary model is for 2019 and I would save about $10,000, what is Morgan going to do with the Plus 4 in 2020 - just put the price back up?
2, What is this Wide body model I have read about? It seems like a new chassis to replace either the Aero 8 but somewhere I read suggested it might be used on the classic models? If so does that mean a complete redesign of the classic models and a huge price increase or they just get a bit wider and that could be a really good thing as it would be easier for my potential passengers to fit in the car.

I have read on another forum that Morgan are more interested in the Aero style as it makes them a lot more money and are probably going to drop the classic model after 2019. However looking at the productions figures the 3 wheeler is selling the most with the 4/4 the next best selling car by a big margin. I think the 4/4 is being discontinued due to the engine not passing emissions tests in which case surely the +4 would probably sell more being the closest in both style and price. Any thoughts on the classics being dropped a year before I think I could get one?

Thanks
Chris


Chris, I was at the Muster, sorry I missed you. If you really want a Morgan a good well sorted second hand one is definitely the way to go in my view.

Think long and hard before you spend a lot of money for a lot of grief on a new one - that's my experience.


Registration and compliance can be an arduous process in Oz because the vehicle may fall into the ICV category (Individually Constructed Vehicle) I am going through this process with an Auburn Boat Tail Speedster as my latest project - not impossible but complex, time consuming and can get expensive.
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#549559 - 22/12/18 10:44 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: +8Rich]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2405
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By +8Rich
IcePack is bang on the money and like him my wife doesn't care for the Plus 8 she is a VW GTI girl and that's it. Which is good as we both have diverse interests which keeps the marriage healthy and gives me lots of rapid trips and outings without the satnag.
I have had 2 Plus 8's and a brand new 2009 4/4 Sport over 14 years of Morgan ownership and the Sport was a pain in terms of having to finish off what the factory should have done and bits kept falling off it all the time. The build quality of the 1994 and 1999 Plus 8's is far better in my experience. A well sorted secondhand one is a better route if you want fun and reliability from day one. Do you know any of the Aussies on here they will tell you straight and have the extra experience of the difficulty of procuring spares etc I know Gary finds it easier getting parts for his DeLorean than he does for his Morgan in Aus !

If it's just a money/time decision and you like the cars just do it don't hang around please, I was 53 when I got my first one and I should have got one earlier if they bite you they never let you go be warned. Another thing to help your decision making is that over a 10 year period you are likely to get more for it than you paid if taken care of properly. As a guide my new Sport was £27,000 with a few extras I requested just take a look at the UK prices for one as a guideline.

Quite a few people present and past on here have dabbled in a Morgan but never really got it and sold theirs on but they are still on the voyage of finding what they really want to own possibly.
At the other end of the spectrum one of the senior admin members on here has had Plus 8 Morgan's since they came out and now owns 3 one of the originals, the current Aero bodied Plus 8 and a special BMW V8 engined one he had built to his own design by MMC called the SP2 a fabulous machine.

Have fun enjoying your motoring whatever you decide on.


So true but things are looking up now we have access to reliable advice and service even if it is via our new West Australian dealer.

And yes the Delorean service is superb even though the Company went broke in 1983.
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#549562 - 22/12/18 10:48 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: OZ 4/4]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18475
Loc: UK
I'm really pleased the West Australian dealer is improving the situation for you guys and girls out there, good news indeed thumbs
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#549565 - 22/12/18 11:13 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: +8Rich]
OZ 4/4 Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 25/11/11
Posts: 2405
Loc: Australia - NSW Mid North Coas...
Originally Posted By +8Rich
I'm really pleased the West Australian dealer is improving the situation for you guys and girls out there, good news indeed thumbs


It's a tough market for these cars at the moment based on price and reputation but if anyone can do it David can.

He has the whole MOCA Team WA behind him...
_________________________
A Morgan Identified Fastidious Owner...
2011 4/4 Bespoke, 1981 Delorean DMC 12

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#549567 - 22/12/18 11:51 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: ChrisConvertible]
ChrisConvertible Offline
New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 3
Hi Guys,

Lots of excellent replies. I have been keeping an eye out on the used market but in Australia I generally only see cars from the 1970's and 1980's come up.

I know second hand cars can be imported but I went though that process with the Silvia and it is not easy at all, plus I think the current legislation only allow Morgans made before 1989 to be imported.

I have done a reasonable amount of work on cars over the years. I do enjoy using spanners and improving things so from that point of view I would probably enjoy the process of improving the car to my style. Also as Richard said often aftermarket is cheaper than specifying the same on a new build, I have noticed heated seats here are a lot cheaper to retrofit than getting Morgan to fit the heater while the seat is being made and they do both the seat and back rest. Also to upgrade to Stainless Steel wires is a $3900 option but I could buy the same wheels from the MWS dealer here for under $600 each, i.e. buy all 5 for less and keep the silver painted wheels that come on the car as spares or try sell them?

Yes the wide body I read about was on Autocar, just enough information to make you think something is happening but not enough to know what. I didn't actually think about the Geneva motor show but it is in March so not a long wait to see what is going to happen.

As stated I doubt I would get know what finances I could have until mid next year,as that is after the Geneva show it means I can easily just wait and see what Geneva shows.

Yes Kit cars and Australia is a pain. The rules vary a lot from state to state and this often makes it very hard to sell as while a car might be registered to its current owner often it can not be registered in the state of a potential buyer. I would rather fix up an old car than build a kit car as it only has to satisfy the rules based on its age. I met a guy at a car show with a Suffolk SS100 made using the kit they supply in QLD. The car was fully registered in QLD and he bought it to bring back to Canberra in ACT (where both he and I live). QLD has registered the car based on a 1967 model due to the donor XJ6 that supplied the engine, etc. But ACT insisted the car was assembled in QLD in 2013 and therefore had to meet 2013 rules. He spent $1000's of dollars to get the car registered and said if he knew how much he would spend and that the car would end up with many modifications that he feels detracts from the car he would have bought an investment property in QLD to get a QLD address and kept the registration there.

So if I was to go the SS100 route I would find a ratty Mark 4 jag to cannibalize for the engine, gearbox, diff etc. Then use a company called Finch Restorations ( http://finchrestorations.com.au/products/ss100-jaguar ) to build the chassis etc. They said about half of their cars have been totally built by them and about half by owners themselves using period parts from a donor with Finch building a lot of the parts. They also told me that their cars are registered using the pre 1949 Hot Rod regulations that are standard across the country, so much easier if you decide to move, or sell the car interstate.

My Silvia is very similar to the one in this video. As far as I know the first 300 Silvia's off the production line were all Midnight Pearl Blue like this video. They were converted by hand in the factory using parts supplied by Autech (a private company that makes special parts for Nissan and does other stuff) by the factory workers while the production line ran producing the standard hardtop cars. Then a few more in Green, red and white were made but they never sold that well as Nissan priced them over double the cost of the hardtop version.

My car was the 10th car off the production line in October 1988 and sat in a dealership as a display model until sold new in October 1990. I kept it fairly standard until my son crashed it, then while it was at a repair shop they somehow stuffed the engine and refused to have anything to do with the engine repairs saying it must have been like that before the accident. As it is easier to buy performance parts for those cars than stock stuff I ended up rebuilding it looking pretty much stock but now instead of 128KW at the engine it has 156KW at the wheels when I had it tuned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfvT49WNbHk&t=77s

Thanks
Chris

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#549569 - 22/12/18 11:51 AM Re: Trying to decide whether to become a member [Re: ChrisConvertible]
robmog88 Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 21/05/07
Posts: 898
Loc: Walsall, uk
Don’t buy new, try a few rides in other owners cars (as Graham suggests) talk to them and if at the end of that process they have convinced you that they are for you, buy a used car. If when you try it at anytime, then go and find something else more appropriate. But don’t wait, as another poster said, life’s too short, I’m on my sixth over twenty five years of ownership. A plus four 4 Seater, four plus 8’s, 3.5, 3.9 and two 4.6s and a plus 4 two seater.
All different, surprisingly, and all used.
But never regretted not owning a car from new.
Good hunting

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