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#550996 - 31/12/18 01:39 PM Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
This turned out to be my last job of 2018. I'd been putting it off for all sorts of reasons, but yesterday came the right combination of available time, and warmish weather.

So, Panhard Rods are available now from a number of sources. This one is from SSL. Some rods secure to the leaf spring by a saddle clamp. This one uses a replacement lower plate for the U bolts.

And here it is. This is one of the early production versions.
This is the orientation on the car, which is just visible.



My first job was to remove the old U bolt plate. The nuts came off easily.
I did consider taking a leaf out, (both sides!) but in the end took the lazy option.
I locked the spring in place by inserting wooden blocks between spring and chassis while I did this. The centre hole on the plate wasn't big enough to fit over the leaf spring through bolt nut, but some drill and file action fixed that.



This is the old plate. Notice how its (cut) asymmetrical, chassis to the right.



Next I clamped the cross-member in place........taking care to get it straight!!!



When aligned I drilled the eight holes.....I bought some special drills for this, and they were very impressive.................
I cleaned up the surroundings and applied some galvanising primer to the holes. When dry I bolted the cross-member up and coated the threads with ACF50.

I fitted the rod to the crossmember.............
Later I would have liked to have tried it in the lower of the two holes, but the floor timber gets in the way and needs cutting slightly for clearance. By that time I'd had enough so maybe that's something for another time.



At this point I discovered that I should have put the bolt in at the other end from below..............
But I also discovered this clearance issue on full rebound.

Note that my Roadster has six leaves. More current cars with four leaves means an increase in the clearance here of the thickness of two leaves.

I also tested clearance on my Plus 4, but with the fuel tank protruding further forward by a significant amount, I'm not comfortable with the clearance I have, so for now I'm not doing this job on the Plus 4. Remember that every Morgan will vary slightly!!!!



So I had to drop the cross-member to get the bolt in (no way the nut will fit below) and I also cut away half the bolt head. Now its OK. It's feeler gauge clearance but it's clearance. I've fed this back to Peter B.
An alternative fix here would be to space the crossmember down a few mm, or file away a section of the cross-member.



I sprayed the whole thing with Tectyl 506 when completed.

This is clearance at static height.



Finally I checked for sideways movement between static height and full rebound using a straight edge, and there's no sideways movement. This took about five hours at a leisurely pace.



I'll report back after a test drive......

thumbs

_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551002 - 31/12/18 02:32 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 12901
Loc: Suffolk
Well done Dave. My car came with one so I don't have to fit one.
_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#551017 - 31/12/18 03:36 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Geir Karlsen Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 22/03/10
Posts: 178
Loc: Norway
Another interesting article.
It would be very interesting to read how you feel the rod improves the handling.
I am considering a panhard rod myself as I feel the rear axle moving sideways and also can see the tyre rub marks on my exhaust.
_________________________
4/4 2 seater 2001 model

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#551019 - 31/12/18 03:43 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
KEVFITZ Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 26/09/14
Posts: 1423
Loc: YORK
Top man..well explained with good photographs

You should maybe write a book Dave.


xx
_________________________
HEAR THOSE THROTTLE BODIES ROAR !!!!

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#551041 - 31/12/18 04:47 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4455
Loc: East Anglia
Panhard rod is a must on a trad , anyone on here who looks underneath and can't find one ..get one fitted asap as cornering/rounderbouts are dealt with much swifter !
_________________________
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .



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#551056 - 31/12/18 05:12 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: KEVFITZ]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
Originally Posted By KEVFITZ
Top man..well explained with good photographs

You should maybe write a book Dave.


xx


Such humour could only emanate from a Yorkshire bloodline.......... wine
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551061 - 31/12/18 05:29 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Redfate Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 30/01/18
Posts: 83
Loc: London England
Hi Dave,
I like the look of that and a great illustrated write up. Do you know the part number for this kit?
I couldn't see it on the SSL website?
Cheers
Paul
_________________________
Paul

2009 4/4 Sport in Red
2016 Harley Davidson Road Glide Ultra

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#551062 - 31/12/18 05:29 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Rob Thornton Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/07/15
Posts: 285
Loc: Reading
Great explanation of the process Dave. Love the wheel supports too. Presumably you always use four of these together?
_________________________
Rob T
2001 Royal Ivory Plus 8

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#551068 - 31/12/18 06:01 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
KEVFITZ Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 26/09/14
Posts: 1423
Loc: YORK
You can't even give a complement these days without somebody having a go at you !!!!

Maybe time to move to a proper car forum like Ferrari and discuss the merits of owning a Morgan !!!


xx
_________________________
HEAR THOSE THROTTLE BODIES ROAR !!!!

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#551070 - 31/12/18 06:04 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: Redfate]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Redfate
Hi Dave,
I like the look of that and a great illustrated write up. Do you know the part number for this kit?
I couldn't see it on the SSL website?
Cheers
Paul


Give then a call Paul. It was advertised a couple of months ago in Miscellany but isn't in their current Ad.
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551071 - 31/12/18 06:05 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: KEVFITZ]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
Originally Posted By KEVFITZ
You can't even give a complement these days without somebody having a go at you !!!!

Maybe time to move to a proper car forum like Ferrari and discuss the merits of owning a Morgan !!!


xx

Just go and stand in the corner over there........
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551074 - 31/12/18 06:08 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: Rob Thornton]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Rob Thornton
Great explanation of the process Dave. Love the wheel supports too. Presumably you always use four of these together?


Thanks Rob.
Those wheel supports came from some spare timber I had laying around. I made four and they can be used like that for maximum lift or on their sides for a bit lower.

I use either a pair (front or rear) or all four........

They are invaluable!
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551076 - 31/12/18 06:12 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
KEVFITZ Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 26/09/14
Posts: 1423
Loc: YORK
You do know that if you bought a +4 Supersports all your wished for modifications and performance updates would have been fitted at the factory !!!


Just saying !!!

Dave ..when can I come out of the corner..I think I need the toilet !!
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#551077 - 31/12/18 06:13 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
When you stop talking.
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551078 - 31/12/18 06:13 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
KEVFITZ Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 26/09/14
Posts: 1423
Loc: YORK
Silence
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HEAR THOSE THROTTLE BODIES ROAR !!!!

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#551083 - 31/12/18 06:35 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
The toilet is outside....
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551087 - 31/12/18 06:50 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Stringers Best Mate Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 16/10/13
Posts: 6271
Loc: Northamptonshire UK
Originally Posted By DaveW
The toilet is outside....


Ah, yes..

Yorkshire..
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Steve

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#551093 - 31/12/18 07:27 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
IcePack Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/07/11
Posts: 424
http://www.suspensionsupplies.co.uk/products/4593177137

Google is your friend.

I guess battery gets in the way ?
_________________________
4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.

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#551105 - 31/12/18 09:05 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
Yes it does.....
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551111 - 31/12/18 10:50 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
teknome Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 26/10/07
Posts: 79
Depending on model and year of Morgan the Panhard rod may need to be designed so as to avoid the fuel outlet pipe from the fuel tank. Typically changes whether it is designed to be mounted to the left side, or right side, of the chassis.
_________________________
---------------------------
Mike Smith


1995 +8
2007 +4

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#551132 - 01/01/19 07:07 AM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Mogdriver Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 19/11/13
Posts: 31
Loc: Tauranga. New Zealand
Hi Dave
With your fitting of the attachment point of the panhard rod to the spring base, will that bolt that attaches the rod not hammer out on the chassis cross brace on rebound. Just looking at your first picture of the rod laid out is it not designed for the cross brace to be mounted approximately 25mm further back so that the bolt head will clear the cross brace. It means that the panhard rod will then be at a slight angle to the Chassis brace.
I admit I am not privy to the installation instructions so I may be totally out of order. Hopefully this makes sense. Comments from PGB.
Doug
From deep deep downunder.

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#551147 - 01/01/19 09:29 AM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
Hi Doug.

The crossmember is meant to fit hard up against the rear floor timber. It could be mounted further forward on cars with this fuel tank but not on later cars with much less space.

The six leaf springs make the bottom plate much lower than the four leaf springs. Static test shows minimal clearance so I think it will be fine.

If it knocks, I'll insert some spacers between the chassis and crossmember and file a bit away from the crossmember at the point of contact. thumbs
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551148 - 01/01/19 10:22 AM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: madmax]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 7304
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By madmax
Panhard rod is a must on a trad


I would agree. After the SSL front conversion, this is the best mod one can make to improve handling.
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#551152 - 01/01/19 10:56 AM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 12901
Loc: Suffolk
It made a huge difference to my +4. Can't say on the Roadster as it had one fitted & I then added anti tramp bars to keep it all in line.
_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#551156 - 01/01/19 12:18 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: KEVFITZ]
Burgundymog Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 3442
Loc: Essex
Originally Posted By KEVFITZ
You do know that if you bought a +4 Supersports all your wished for modifications and performance updates would have been fitted at the factory !!!


Says the man who hasn't stopped modifying since he bought it ! laugh2
_________________________
Keith
2013 narrow bodied + 4 Ruby. Wolf performance Re-map suspension mods and K&N cone filter.

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#551203 - 01/01/19 02:46 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: Burgundymog]
BobtheTrain Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 5077
Loc: Renfrewshire
Originally Posted By Burgundymog
Says the man who hasn't stopped modifying since he bought it ! laugh2

Does he mod the rocker?
_________________________
Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek

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#551206 - 01/01/19 02:59 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 875
Loc: Oxon

I’ve noticed SIFAB are now manufacturing Panhard Rod kits (in Miscellany)

It’s on my wish list to have one installed this year.



_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#551209 - 01/01/19 03:14 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Redfate Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 30/01/18
Posts: 83
Loc: London England
Personally I'm not keen on the idea of clamping the leaf springs with the bracket arrangement that the SIFAB uses, I do like the SSL method with the plate under the mounting though.
_________________________
Paul

2009 4/4 Sport in Red
2016 Harley Davidson Road Glide Ultra

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#551366 - 02/01/19 01:49 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 755
Loc: Yorkshire
Dave, top job as ever !

I had a Mulfab one on the S1 and it definitely made a difference
_________________________
Jon M

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#551410 - 02/01/19 05:02 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: Redfate]
IvorMog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/04/17
Posts: 771
Loc: Staffordshire
Originally Posted By Redfate
Personally I'm not keen on the idea of clamping the leaf springs with the bracket arrangement that the SIFAB uses, I do like the SSL method with the plate under the mounting though.


I've been thinking about which is the better clamping method as I'm going to be fitting one soon.

The Sifab (and Mulfab) method of clamping directly onto the spring will in theory alter the movement of the spring but as it's right against the axle mounting I doubt it will have any noticeable effect. It's also well tried and tested over many years and fitments.

My slight worry with the SSL method (and remember I'm a great fan of the SSL front suspension system) is that it might induce some twisting moment into the axle clamping U bolts and I don't know what long term effect that will have on the U bolt tightness.

I think I'll go with the Sifab spring clamping system and see how the SSL method develops.


Edited by IvorMog (02/01/19 06:19 PM)
_________________________
Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec

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#551422 - 02/01/19 06:19 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
It's rose jointed at both ends Bob if that helps!
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#551427 - 02/01/19 06:40 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
IvorMog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/04/17
Posts: 771
Loc: Staffordshire
It's not that Dave,

It's that the rod is not acting directly on the axle U bolts but effectively though an offset lever.

Probably not enough to worry about but it's there nevertheless.

I'd be tempted to check the U bolt tightness from time to time just to make sure.
_________________________
Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec

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#551432 - 02/01/19 07:19 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
IcePack Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/07/11
Posts: 424
Silly question Dave, but how did you “compress” the spring to check the travel clearance?
As I see from your pictures the leaf spring is fully (up) compressed, showing your neoprene pad pressed against the frame.
_________________________
4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.

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#551434 - 02/01/19 07:28 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 11103
Loc: Salisbury, UK

Hmm...
2 anti tramp bars, one Panhard rod and 2 leaf springs - almost 5 link suspension.
It suggests that 5 link is the way to go....

I did ask Peter Ballard if he had considered full IRS for the Trads. He suggested that there simply isn't room... he is right, given the fascinating MMC Chassis design that goes below the back axle....
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#551435 - 02/01/19 07:30 PM Re: Workshop Note - Fitting a Panhard Rod [Re: DaveW]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 17137
Loc: South Yorkshire
IcePack, in the pictures, the spring is either full rebound (down) or static running position, not compressed.

Bob, yes I understand there may be leverage, and I'll check tightness, because these things do loosen anyway! Plus the fact that I have the thinner U bolts, and six leaves means not much thread to play with.....................
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DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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