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Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Heinz] #551794
04/01/19 10:38 PM
04/01/19 10:38 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 892
Sumerset
Rog Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 892
Sumerset
Originally Posted By Heinz
Roger, thanks for your detailed answers. It should not ne too difficult when I cut some cardboard to reduce the efficiency of the aluminium radiator, which consequently to your thoughts should help to lower the water temperature of the engine.

I have understood the consequences and effects but I haven't really fully understood how it works and how the connection between the warm bypass water and the cooler radiator water come together.

I assume that both water hoses meet before the thermostat. But how is the mix determined, and why does too little cold water seem to come into the circuit towards the engine behind the stat when the new radiator cools so well, better than the old smaller plastic radiator? But the engine runs hotter...


Your cardboard experiment will be interesting.

I don’t know the detail of the Sigma so can only attempt an explanation on the Duratec.

Below is a pic of the Duratec showing the coolant paths and how they mix at the stat housing. Also a pic of my old 90deg stat. Note the stat is a double valve arrangement. The primary valve is pretty standard. The secondary valve is the plunger at the end that seals against a seat in the block. When the primary valve opens to let the rad coolant into the block the secondary valve closes off the hot by-pass coolant.

As said before it looks like it is dependent on a precarious temperature balance between the hot and cooled coolants that might hold the answer. Just a wacky theory…… smile


Roger
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #551835
05/01/19 09:35 AM
05/01/19 09:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,850
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
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Richard Wood  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,850
East Harling, Norfolk UK
FWIW the coolant bypass whether it's integrated into the block or an external pipe, is always a narrower bore than main rad cooling circuit.

This is the case with conventional cylinder head or rad return thermostat location.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: Richard Wood] #551853
05/01/19 11:03 AM
05/01/19 11:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 649
Aerdenhout, The Netherlands
BertR Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 649
Aerdenhout, The Netherlands
When I replaced broken radiator with a Mulfab alluminium one, I noticed a drop in the cooling water temperature. This must be because the Mulfab one being made from alluminium and being larger. As I did not like the esthetics of the new radiator sticking out from below the front, I got a stubby valance from Wolff Engineering, to cover it up as well as to get some extra protection. Result is that the running temperature is slightly up again.
In order to lower the under bonnet temperature, I installed bonnet extenders from John Taylor. This also provides some extra free volume around the itg air filter, which should help breathing. An additional bennefit is the increased sound level from the air intake.

I wonder if closing the gap at the bottom between radiator and front of engine (as mentioned earlier in this discussion) would be of additional help to help both air intake temperature and flow (given the bonnet extenders).
Cheers,
Bert


2009 Roadster, Lancia midnight blue, cinnamon upholstery.
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #551867
05/01/19 11:59 AM
05/01/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,601
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
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DaveW  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,601
South Yorkshire
It's not a difficult job Bert, because you can start with a flat sheet of aluminium, and improvise. I've done it on each of mine. Of course it's impossible to really evaluate the outcome, but none of mine have run hot, even last summer.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4
Re: Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #552351
07/01/19 01:17 PM
07/01/19 01:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 350
Lincolnshire
Guten Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Guten  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 350
Lincolnshire
I had a good run today and I'd say the new deflector plate made no difference whatsoever. Still gives an indicated 96 once fully warmed up at 40 to 50 and got up to 102 at 70 on a long gentle hill, just about 100 at 70. The fan didn't come on as far as I could tell. I will leave the plate there to see what happens in the summer.
It seems like the thermostat is controlling the inlet temperature to the engine and the dashboard water temperature gauge is reporting the outlet i.e. 88 deg inlet constant but the more the load the higher the outlet temperature.

crazy2

Last edited by Guten; 07/01/19 03:12 PM.

Simon
Re: 3.7 Roadster Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #582083
19/06/19 10:52 AM
19/06/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 127
Leics UK
sid Offline
L - Learner Plates On
sid  Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 127
Leics UK
Originally Posted By CooperMan
On the 3.7 Roadsters the only intake for air is via a hole cut onto the base of the Mustang airbox / filter housing here..



It's not very large in area and draws intake air from close to the back of the engine and the footwell bulkhead, and is only about 6 inches from the hot exhaust manifold

The filter sits flat in the top of the airbox & there's plenty of space below...





So I've cut some additional intake holes below the filter line to allow more air routes in, and hopefully some will be cooler air pushed in by the forward facing bonnet louvres, and I'm lining the 'box' with reflective foil tape





Next task is an air scoop to the back of the bonnet side louvres or a Naca duct


Inspired by Jon's much earlier posts relating to getting more cooler air into the 3.7 Roadster's air box, I've also cut a 4" hole in the box but then used a ducting elbow that came from Screwfix to help draw cool air from the side vents in the bonnet.
A quick spray of matt black and I think it looks quite tidy.




I've left the original hole in the base of the box open, but I'm hoping that this - very cheap! - addition may improve things.

Only a proper dyno test will confirm one way or the other whether there's any difference in performance, as I must say I can't notice any, but I just feel that anything's got to be better than the standard arrangement.


Sid

2014 3.7 Roadster in Ferrari Le Mans Blue
Ex Indigo Blue '99 +4
MogMMX Innovations winner
Re: 3.7 Roadster Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #582124
19/06/19 03:50 PM
19/06/19 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
CooperMan  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
Sid, looks a good idea

My MK2 version now has a scoop fitted above the rad which feeds air via a duct direct into the front airbox hole

The engine deffo runs cooler as the fan cuts in a lot less


Jon M
Re: 3.7 Roadster Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #582199
20/06/19 08:13 AM
20/06/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
CooperMan  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
Sid, photos of Mk2 upgrade



Intake scoop mounted on top of rad





Jon M
Re: 3.7 Roadster Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #582207
20/06/19 09:38 AM
20/06/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,850
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Richard Wood  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,850
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Neat job Jon. I feel if I was to do the same I would need to start with an unbutchered airbox as that is what the MMC mod is IMO.

Do you happen to know the source of (intact) airbox?

My investigations revealed there were two 3.7 V6 Mustang airbox variants, and the OE slab filter (replaced with K&N) on mine matches the 2011-2014 one with straight not angled outlet. Even then it would have had a hole at the front to accept the rectangular cold air inlet pipe (see my photo further up this thread) which would be sited just behind left hand bank on Morgan, so maybe yet another Ford airbox variant.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: 3.7 Roadster Air Intake improvements [Re: CooperMan] #582224
20/06/19 11:36 AM
20/06/19 11:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 127
Leics UK
sid Offline
L - Learner Plates On
sid  Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 127
Leics UK
Nice idea, Jon. Interesting to hear that the car now runs cooler, too.
Maybe your design restricts some of the airflow that would normally have by-passed the radiator, but is now forcing more air to go through it?

Anyway, you've now prompted me to experiment with installing a blanking plate above the rad, as the cooling fan certainly kicks in a lot more than it ever did on my old +4.

So thanks for that, as it's given me more excuses to disappear into the garage for some more tinkering...!


Sid

2014 3.7 Roadster in Ferrari Le Mans Blue
Ex Indigo Blue '99 +4
MogMMX Innovations winner
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