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#552696 - 09/01/19 11:24 AM Poor starting?
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
She struggles to start after being left a couple of days, and this morning (6.30am and cold) took a real effort to get her going.

Once warm, or a day after use she starts on the button.

To me, this points to the battery - a new one was fitted in Nov 16, but she's been mainly say around since then and done minimal mileage.

Any other thoughts?

If in agreement, any recommendations for a battery, or will one from my local motor factors be sufficient? She gets used at least two or three times a week.
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

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#552697 - 09/01/19 11:26 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 13286
Loc: Suffolk
Do you use a battery conditioner?
Is the alternator or dynamo generating enough volts?
Are the starter motor & coil earths OK?

I have used Halfrauds batteries in 2 of my Mogs. They both lasted over 5 years at which point I sold the car.
_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#552699 - 09/01/19 11:35 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: John V6]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
Originally Posted By John V6
Do you use a battery conditioner?


Not at the moment (although I have a shed full of 'Optimates' for my bikes - I'll wire one up tonight and see how I get on)

Originally Posted By John V6
Is the alternator or dynamo generating enough volts?


Good call - I have my doubts about the accuracy of the ammeter, so will stick a meter on it this evening to check.

Originally Posted By John V6
Are the starter motor & coil earths OK?


Should be - I have no issues starting when warm, but I'll check them at the weekend.

Originally Posted By John V6
I have used Halfrauds batteries in 2 of my Mogs. They both lasted over 5 years at which point I sold the car.


Thank you - I think the lack of use may well have 'dulled' the battery - I've done more miles in the last two months than in the last 6 years of previous ownership - I'll wager she's not been started more that 10 times since the battery was fitted.
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

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#552701 - 09/01/19 11:41 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
Neilda Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 26/04/12
Posts: 4513
Loc: Surrey. UK
I am a very long way from being an expert in such matters, but having owned a few cars I think the amount of 'cranking amps' a battery has is pretty important. The voltage can be a bit misleading as it's the 'woof' behind the volts (the cranking amps) that tends to dictate if the motor will turn.
_________________________
+8 4.8

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#552703 - 09/01/19 11:44 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
Jack The Lad Offline
Posting Desperado
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 7775
Loc: The frozen North
Sounds like swmbo


Originally Posted By TBM
She struggles to start after being left a couple of days, and this morning (6.30am and cold) took a real effort to get her going.

Once warm, or a day after use she starts on the button.

To me, this points to the battery - a new one was fitted in Nov 16, but she's been mainly say around since then and done minimal mileage.

Any other thoughts?

If in agreement, any recommendations for a battery, or will one from my local motor factors be sufficient? She gets used at least two or three times a week.

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#552704 - 09/01/19 11:44 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: Neilda]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
Originally Posted By Neilda
I am a very long way from being an expert in such matters, but having owned a few cars I think the amount of 'cranking amps' a battery has is pretty important. The voltage can be a bit misleading as it's the 'woof' behind the volts (the cranking amps) that tends to dictate if the motor will turn.


Yes - I've also had bike batteries that will read 12.8v, but drop dramatically when any load is put on them.

I'll compare the CCA numbers if I get to replace it.
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

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#552705 - 09/01/19 11:45 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 13286
Loc: Suffolk
Correct volts that jolt mils (mA) that kill.
On my mogs the gauges are at best a guide of general direction so check the voltage with a multi meter.
_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#552722 - 09/01/19 12:59 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 31/05/10
Posts: 6171
Loc: Llanelli
What symptoms areyou getting?
Is the engine slow turning over?
Does it turn over ok but not fire up?

Slow turnover could be the battery, or a bad earth as the common issues.
Failure to fire could be fuel or spark issues needed detailed checks.
_________________________
Red Plus8

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#552725 - 09/01/19 01:12 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
Paul F Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/08/10
Posts: 2366
Loc: Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Based on the history of the car, sounds like battery to me.

Worth checking earthing just in case. If you have the steel sheathed heater control, if it is getting hot enough to burn you, that would indicate a poor earth (don’t ask how I know!). MMC fit a flimsy earth from gearbox to chassis. For what it will cost, it is worth adding an extra earth strap in the engine compartment where you can easily check it.

In your shoes, I would fit a new battery anyway. Our 1985 4/4 was never hooked to a charger and the battery lasted around 7 years. Always started easily, until the battery started to fade. The code number on the battery and a tape measure should suffice to get the correct battery. If yours is fitted under the bonnet (4 seater IIRC?) then easy to swap. More modern cars with a constant current drain through ECU and immobiliser definitely need a float charger. With your use pattern, you shouldn’t really need one.
_________________________
Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 4
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross

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#552727 - 09/01/19 01:29 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: sospan]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
Originally Posted By sospan
What symptoms areyou getting?
Is the engine slow turning over?
Does it turn over ok but not fire up?

Slow turnover could be the battery, or a bad earth as the common issues.
Failure to fire could be fuel or spark issues needed detailed checks.


It seems to turn over OK, but I notice a 'slowing' after third or fourth attempt. It's difficult to know whether it turning over fast enough. Once started it runs and ticks over beautifully, which makes me think spark/fuel is OK.

I had an old Suzuki GS that would appear to spin over at a spirited rate, but if the battery was anything but tiptop would fail to start. A new battery would have her starting in seconds. Old suzuki's are renowned for having 'interesting' electrics...
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

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#552731 - 09/01/19 02:07 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
IvorMog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/04/17
Posts: 792
Loc: Staffordshire
Originally Posted By TBM
She struggles to start after being left a couple of days, and this morning (6.30am and cold) took a real effort to get her going.

Once warm, or a day after use she starts on the button.

To me, this points to the battery - a new one was fitted in Nov 16, but she's been mainly say around since then and done minimal mileage.

Any other thoughts?

If in agreement, any recommendations for a battery, or will one from my local motor factors be sufficient? She gets used at least two or three times a week.

I don't think you have a real problem at all, just an excuse to brag about starting your Morgan at 6.30 am on a freezing cold morning when most of us were still tucked up in a nice warm bed.

I struggle to get started these days at 6.30 on a freezing cold morning.

Maybe I should plug myself into a battery conditioner overnight.
_________________________
Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec

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#552738 - 09/01/19 02:30 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 7544
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
rofl
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#552743 - 09/01/19 02:46 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
brownbaker Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/09/10
Posts: 864
I had similar with my silver top zetec,fitted a high torque starter never had a problem since

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#552750 - 09/01/19 03:13 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: IvorMog]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
Originally Posted By IvorMog
I don't think you have a real problem at all, just an excuse to brag about starting your Morgan at 6.30 am on a freezing cold morning when most of us were still tucked up in a nice warm bed.

I struggle to get started these days at 6.30 on a freezing cold morning.

Maybe I should plug myself into a battery conditioner overnight.


Not through choice! Mrs. nicked my other car as she's having her clutch done - and it was far preferable to dragging a bike out smile
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

Top
#552779 - 09/01/19 05:05 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
She's charging nicely at about 14.4V, so no issues there.

Battery Voltage was showing at over 13V before I tested her (after 25mile drive home). Probaby won't drive her now till Saturday, so will check the voltage drop before I start her.

I also wonder if I'm 'over choking' her on start up? I usually try her on full choke first - I might try 1/2 to 3/4 to see if that makes a difference.
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

Top
#552794 - 09/01/19 05:43 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4242
Loc: Llanelli
There's a good chance it may not need a lot of choke. Two or three pumps of the throttle pedal may be enough.


Edited by Ray (09/01/19 05:44 PM)
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#552842 - 09/01/19 08:06 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 22259
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Presumably you still have the mechanical fuel pump Phil?
My '76 would turn over very slowly if left for more than a couple of days. But you say it's turning over quickly.

Check all earth connections (I added a couple of extra ones to my '76 which eased things a little). Also fitted an electronic (321) distributor and high spec coil, doing away with the points and ballast resistor.
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper

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#552844 - 09/01/19 08:09 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
Originally Posted By Graham, G4FUJ
Presumably you still have the mechanical fuel pump Phil?
My '76 would turn over very slowly if left for more than a couple of days. But you say it's turning over quickly.

Check all earth connections (I added a couple of extra ones to my '76 which eased things a little). Also fitted an electronic (321) distributor and high spec coil, doing away with the points and ballast resistor.


Yep - mechanical pump (new last year). Electronic ignition is definitely on the 'list'
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

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#552851 - 09/01/19 08:33 PM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
britmog Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 13/12/17
Posts: 183
Loc: Colorado, USA
Of course you could have a small drain on the battery when it is standing. If the drives after starting are not too long then there will not be enough charge before the next small drain. A trickle charger will cure this, also if you have an immobilizer switch then turning that off would indicate if there is a drain or not. Otherwise try disconnecting the battery when not in use and see how it performs when reconnected, this will indicate if there is a naughty drain taking place.
_________________________
Bruce Marshall
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)

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#553143 - 11/01/19 06:24 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
PHZI Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 89
Anyway if it turns out to be the battery then cheapest is on line, probably E Bay or Tanya Batteries. I always opt for the biggest (AH and CCA) the better, the only thing to check out is the physical dimensions of the battery tray/installation space available.


Edited by PHZI (11/01/19 06:25 AM)

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#553145 - 11/01/19 07:25 AM Re: Poor starting? [Re: TBM]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 493
Loc: Northants, UK
Mrs. has nicked my car again. I didn't have time (or light) to check the battery voltage, but only gave her a tickle of choke and she started on the third attempt.

I had been using full choke, so I think that has been part of the problem - but I still think the starter is not spinning as productively as it could be.

Will certainly look online (although the AA is offering a 10% off Halfrauds at the moment which might bring them close).
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

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