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#553075 - 10/01/19 06:32 PM Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4326
Loc: East Anglia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46822706

Not pleasant for those involved , are other manufacturers going to suffer or is it just JLR ?


Edited by madmax (10/01/19 06:36 PM)
_________________________
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .



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#553081 - 10/01/19 06:46 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK

Ford to "redesign" European business, released today and sent to me by my SIL who works for them in future product planning. The axe will be on the way for quite a few poor workers I'm afraid.
The VAG tie up is likely to be about Ford marketing their commercial vehicles in the States amongst other common shared interest areas.
To quote him some is fact and some of it journo interpretation!


"redesign"

So JLR are not alone.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#553120 - 10/01/19 10:32 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
MJF Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 04/06/18
Posts: 156
Loc: Bristol
Registrations are down pretty much across the board in passenger cars (-6.83%) , light commercial ( -1.3%) and heavy commercial sectors (-9.9% rigid, -4.1% artics, -5.6% Bus and Coach)

There are a couple of manufacturers who are showing an increase in 2018 vs 2017 - McLaren, Volvo, Mitsubishi, but they are a rare beast.

I suspect that JLR are only at the front end of a bit of an industry clear out.

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#553122 - 10/01/19 10:42 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
Gambalunga Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 10519
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
JLR treat their European customers like suckers by unbundling included features that come with the UK and USA models as standard. These unbundled features are then sold as options to a vehicle that is already significantly more expensive in Europe than in the UK or the USA.

I can well imagine that this policy has severely effected sales in Europe. Perhaps if they had been less greedy they would have more sales and been able to actually make more profit.



Jaguar XE R-Sport Ingenium 2.0 4 cylinder 180 CV Turbo Diesel AWD Automatic
Italian Racing Red, Black leather upholstery.


Edited by Gambalunga (10/01/19 10:50 PM)
_________________________
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#553123 - 10/01/19 10:43 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
MJF Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 04/06/18
Posts: 156
Loc: Bristol
On a brighter note though, I have just read that Lamborghini sales increased by 51% in 2018 vs 2017 - pretty much all of the growth coming from the launch of their 4x4.....

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#553128 - 10/01/19 11:10 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: MJF]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By MJF
On a brighter note though, I have just read that Lamborghini sales increased by 51% in 2018 vs 2017 - pretty much all of the growth coming from the launch of their 4x4.....


That is a success story for sure, they are slowly finding their way back to tractor making I see grin2. Sorry it's just me I know it's what the public want but oh dear..
That much growth must be unique - what sort of volume are they turning out I wonder.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#553132 - 10/01/19 11:34 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
MarioCP Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 22/10/13
Posts: 1497
Loc: Lisboa, Portugal
Lamborghini had two models in 2017. The Aventador and the Huracan. Here their recap from Jan. 2018

Quote:

With 1,095 units the USA remains the largest single market, followed by Japan (411), UK (353), Germany (303), Greater China (265), Canada (211) and the Middle East (164). Most of them increased deliveries significantly and marked national historic sales records.

Also both major model lines achieved record sales, thus contributing to the growth. The sales of the V12 model Lamborghini Aventador grew by 6% from 1,104 to 1,173 units. Even stronger was the sales increase of the V10 model Lamborghini Huracán, growing by 12% from 2,353 to 2,642 units.



Now they have 3 models. Aventador, Huracan and the super SUV Urus sick2 crazy3 :skull:

And here's the January 2019 recap

Quote:

With 1,595 units the USA remains the largest single market, followed by the UK (636), Japan (559), Germany (463), Greater China (342), Canada (316) and Italy (295). All these markets increased deliveries substantially and marked national historic sales levels.



Both super sports car model lines achieved record sales, thus contributing to the growth. Sales of the V12 Lamborghini Aventador, born in 2011, is still exceptionally strong and grew by 3% from 1,173 to 1,209 units. Even stronger was the sales increase of the V10 Lamborghini Huracán, growing by 5% from 2,642 to 2,780 units. As expected, a substantial contribution to the global sales increase came from the Super SUV Urus, with 1,761 units delivered to customers since its market introduction in July 2018.


More interesting is to compare their greatest markets evolution:


COUNTRY - 2018 - 2019 - Growth %

US OF A - 1095 - 1595 - 45%

JAPAN - 411 - 559 - 36%

UNITED K. - 353 - 636 - 80%

GERMANY - 303 - 463 - 53%

CHINA - 265 - 342 - 29%

CANADA - 211 - 316 - 50%

M. EAST - 164 - ??? - ???%

ITALY - ??? - 295 - ???%
_________________________
2010 Morgan +4
Me racing it: http://youtu.be/CQgT2vMLEUo
2014 M3W Brooklands
To be raced

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#553134 - 10/01/19 11:41 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: MarioCP]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18472
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By MarioCP
Lamborghini had two models in 2017. The Aventador and the Huracan. Here their recap from Jan. 2018

Quote:

With 1,095 units the USA remains the largest single market, followed by Japan (411), UK (353), Germany (303), Greater China (265), Canada (211) and the Middle East (164). Most of them increased deliveries significantly and marked national historic sales records.

Also both major model lines achieved record sales, thus contributing to the growth. The sales of the V12 model Lamborghini Aventador grew by 6% from 1,104 to 1,173 units. Even stronger was the sales increase of the V10 model Lamborghini Huracán, growing by 12% from 2,353 to 2,642 units.



Now they have 3 models. Aventador, Huracan and the super SUV Urus sick2 crazy3 :skull:

And here's the January 2019 recap

Quote:

With 1,595 units the USA remains the largest single market, followed by the UK (636), Japan (559), Germany (463), Greater China (342), Canada (316) and Italy (295). All these markets increased deliveries substantially and marked national historic sales levels.



Both super sports car model lines achieved record sales, thus contributing to the growth. Sales of the V12 Lamborghini Aventador, born in 2011, is still exceptionally strong and grew by 3% from 1,173 to 1,209 units. Even stronger was the sales increase of the V10 Lamborghini Huracán, growing by 5% from 2,642 to 2,780 units. As expected, a substantial contribution to the global sales increase came from the Super SUV Urus, with 1,761 units delivered to customers since its market introduction in July 2018.


More interesting is to compare their greatest markets evolution:


COUNTRY - 2018 - 2019 - Growth %

US OF A - 1095 - 1595 - 45%

JAPAN - 411 - 559 - 36%

UNITED K. - 353 - 636 - 80%

GERMANY - 303 - 463 - 53%

CHINA - 265 - 342 - 29%

CANADA - 211 - 316 - 50%

M. EAST - 164 - ??? - ???%

ITALY - ??? - 295 - ???%



Wow Mario thanks for that comprehensive answer and very interesting the UK figures. The big family tractor being the way ahead it seems ooo
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#553138 - 11/01/19 01:29 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3376
Loc: Cologne, Germany

I'm sorry that the video below is in German. But if you see the pictures...
It's not a direct reference to JLR, but it's the reference to the fundamental diesel hysteria that JLR suffers from.
The point is that many millions of cars will soon no longer be allowed to drive in German cities. And this affects many millions of car drivers who can no longer afford to live in the cities, but who have their jobs there.

It is about all car manufacturers blocking the hardware retrofit with a particulate filter for older diesel engines.
But in the case of this BMW, the fact is that it was equipped with a particulate filter in the USA right from the start. You can see that in the video. The absurd thing is that you can officially buy this particulate filter in Germany as an original BMW spare part. It is a German product that is shipped back from the US warehouses.

The film shows how dramatically NO2 emissions are reduced in this case. And it also shows that the BMW has all the cutouts so that the particulate filter and an add blue tank can be easily installed.

BMW has not given an answer to this question.

As a result, the car is much cleaner after installation than the limit values for a driving ban. But...it may not drive, because the car with the change is not certified. A single acceptance would cost much more than the residual value of the car.

The bottom line is that the industry does not want it and neither does the legislator.

So many people with low incomes should buy a new car. This will drive people into the arms of extreme parties. It really is an absurd situation. Four candles in an apartment produce 1000 micrograms of NO2. And on the street it should be maximum 40 micrograms. Ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/UXN9Wsg8-Qo

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#553144 - 11/01/19 06:40 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
milligoon Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/04/14
Posts: 2945
Loc: Dorset, UK
This is the start of the change to switching to eVs.

People will be holding off buying a new fossil only car waiting to see what is coming in choice of full eV.

The Rivian announced at the LA show should be a big wake up call to the likes of LandRover.

You can already see this in JLR responses with new planned production.

It's no good waiting for legislation to end the sales of ICE new cars they have to seriously switch now to survive.

More than ever the Chinese auto manufacturers will make big inroads to the traditional automakers market share.

Stick your heads in the sand all you like change is coming and I think it may get here sooner than you think.

Turbulent times for traditional vehicle manufacturers.
_________________________
Mark - driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink

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#553151 - 11/01/19 08:29 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: milligoon]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 6979
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By milligoon
This is the start of the change to switching to eVs.

People will be holding off buying a new fossil only car waiting to see what is coming in choice of full eV.

The Rivian announced at the LA show should be a big wake up call to the likes of LandRover.

You can already see this in JLR responses with new planned production.

It's no good waiting for legislation to end the sales of ICE new cars they have to seriously switch now to survive.

More than ever the Chinese auto manufacturers will make big inroads to the traditional automakers market share.

Stick your heads in the sand all you like change is coming and I think it may get here sooner than you think.

Turbulent times for traditional vehicle manufacturers.


Completely agree. If the traditional vehicle manufacturers think that people want to carry on buying the sorts of cars they currently manufacture then they are grievously mistaken.

Legislation or not, people's purchasing choices are changing.

I have just invented a new type of vehicle that I reckon would revolutionise private car ownership. Imagine a 2 or 3-seater Smart-size car with an electric motor and a range of say 30 miles or so. Ideal for short commutes, popping into town, etc.

Now enable it to be paired with an articulated trailer section, powered by a high-efficiency petrol engine, which can be equipped with flexible seating/load carrying arrangements, like the back half of an SUV. Because of the powered trailer you also get AWD advantages, and there would of course be full audio-visual linkage between the units.

Additional trailer types configured for special requirements (vans, canoes/small boats,specialist sporting equipment etc) would be available either for purchase or could be hired from your local dealer.

Now you have the perfect family vehicle. I hereby donate this idea to the world. Thank me later.
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#553153 - 11/01/19 08:39 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 554
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By madmax
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46822706

Not pleasant for those involved , are other manufacturers going to suffer or is it just JLR ?


Yes, all the JIT supply chain will suffer hugely
_________________________
Jon M

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#553154 - 11/01/19 08:47 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: CooperMan]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 6979
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By CooperMan


Yes, all the JIT supply chain will suffer hugely


Indeed. They were talking about it on Radio 4 this morning.

Unbelievably I read some comment from a Brexiter on Facebook saying that all they had to do was place their orders a week or two earlier. The levels of ignorance are truly amazing.
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#553162 - 11/01/19 09:30 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
MJF Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 04/06/18
Posts: 156
Loc: Bristol
I read a report early last year saying that the market would experience a very significant shift towards EV cars in the next 8 years. At the time I read the report it seemed highly unlikely. Now it feels entirely realistic.

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#553166 - 11/01/19 09:52 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 21438
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Originally Posted By Hamwich
...enable it to be paired with an articulated trailer section...

Nice idea, but can lead to instability if not careful.
Think military LR 101 and powered trailer (driven from LR PTO). They gave up with it fairly quickly as inverting 101s was not a good move...
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper

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#553167 - 11/01/19 09:59 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 6979
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By Graham, G4FUJ
Originally Posted By Hamwich
...enable it to be paired with an articulated trailer section...

Nice idea, but can lead to instability if not careful.
Think military LR 101 and powered trailer (driven from LR PTO). They gave up with it fairly quickly as inverting 101s was not a good move...


Oh, I don't worry about the trivial technical details, I leave that to the engineers to sort out!
smile
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#553169 - 11/01/19 10:23 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: Hamwich]
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 21438
Loc: Cheltenham, Glos. UK
rofl
Sound like a consultant smile
_________________________
Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper

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#553218 - 11/01/19 02:53 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: Graham, G4FUJ]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 554
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By Graham, G4FUJ
rofl
Sound like a consultant smile


Or the Accounts Dept
_________________________
Jon M

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#553381 - 12/01/19 09:51 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
rainbowj Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1262
Loc: Purton, nr Swindon UK
A consultant is some who sees something working in practice and wonders if it will work in theory.
_________________________
John
1992 plus4 connaught green

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#553392 - 12/01/19 10:50 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: rainbowj]
Fat Wolfie Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/10/18
Posts: 72
Loc: West Yorkshire
A business consultant (in my experience) is someone who will borrow your watch and then tell you what the time is...

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#553393 - 12/01/19 10:54 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: Hamwich]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 12634
Loc: Suffolk
Originally Posted By Hamwich
Originally Posted By milligoon
This is the start of the change to switching to eVs.

People will be holding off buying a new fossil only car waiting to see what is coming in choice of full eV.

The Rivian announced at the LA show should be a big wake up call to the likes of LandRover.

You can already see this in JLR responses with new planned production.

It's no good waiting for legislation to end the sales of ICE new cars they have to seriously switch now to survive.

More than ever the Chinese auto manufacturers will make big inroads to the traditional automakers market share.

Stick your heads in the sand all you like change is coming and I think it may get here sooner than you think.

Turbulent times for traditional vehicle manufacturers.


Completely agree. If the traditional vehicle manufacturers think that people want to carry on buying the sorts of cars they currently manufacture then they are grievously mistaken.

Legislation or not, people's purchasing choices are changing.

I have just invented a new type of vehicle that I reckon would revolutionise private car ownership. Imagine a 2 or 3-seater Smart-size car with an electric motor and a range of say 30 miles or so. Ideal for short commutes, popping into town, etc.

Now enable it to be paired with an articulated trailer section, powered by a high-efficiency petrol engine, which can be equipped with flexible seating/load carrying arrangements, like the back half of an SUV. Because of the powered trailer you also get AWD advantages, and there would of course be full audio-visual linkage between the units.

Additional trailer types configured for special requirements (vans, canoes/small boats,specialist sporting equipment etc) would be available either for purchase or could be hired from your local dealer.

Now you have the perfect family vehicle. I hereby donate this idea to the world. Thank me later.


They have them in the USA they are called pick ups & they tow trailer sized caravans plus a little car like an A class Merc.
_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#553397 - 12/01/19 11:03 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: Fat Wolfie]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 6979
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By Fat Wolfie
A business consultant (in my experience) is someone who will borrow your watch and then tell you what the time is...


And as someone who has been a professional business consultant for many years, I would counter with the experience that a client is often unable to tell the time for themselves, which is why they ask for help doing it smile
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#553402 - 12/01/19 11:15 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: madmax]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 12634
Loc: Suffolk
Tim,
I have also worked as a consultant.

I have seen people including myself genuinely help companies.

But I have also seen consultants destabilise companies to get more work as that is how they are rewarded. I know that is a minority but it happens especially if the top client hasn't got the guts to sort out the mess he /she knows is there.
John
_________________________
JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#553407 - 12/01/19 11:21 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: John V6]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 6979
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By John V6

But I have also seen consultants destabilise companies to get more work as that is how they are rewarded. I know that is a minority but it happens especially if the top client hasn't got the guts to sort out the mess he /she knows is there.
John


Very true - especially of the bigger companies in my experience.
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#553416 - 12/01/19 11:50 AM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: milligoon]
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 4052
Originally Posted By milligoon
This is the start of the change to switching to eVs.

People will be holding off buying a new fossil only car waiting to see what is coming in choice of full eV.

The Rivian announced at the LA show should be a big wake up call to the likes of LandRover.

You can already see this in JLR responses with new planned production.

It's no good waiting for legislation to end the sales of ICE new cars they have to seriously switch now to survive.

More than ever the Chinese auto manufacturers will make big inroads to the traditional automakers market share.

Stick your heads in the sand all you like change is coming and I think it may get here sooner than you think.

Turbulent times for traditional vehicle manufacturers.


Electric cars are 4.2% of the UK market. Were JLR to switch now as you suggest they would go out of business.

The JLR issue is simple:
1/ first ever downturn in vehicle sales in China which is JLRs biggest market
2/ JLR are 90% diesel - they dont have a decent petrol engine suitable for an upmarket car since they canned the 6 cylinder. Only the Ingenium 4 pot.
3/ The XE is a failure in attempting to take on the 3 series /C class.
4/ Brexit has damaged UK demand but the rest of the world is teetering on the edge of an economic downturn.
5/ They dont have the size / R&D budget to develop hybrids and so are going for all electric instead.

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#553442 - 12/01/19 01:23 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: howard]
Jon G4LJW Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 21/01/10
Posts: 212
Loc: Lampeter, Wales
Originally Posted By howard

5/ They dont have the size / R&D budget to develop hybrids and so are going for all electric instead.


I have seen a hybrid Range Rover at a show, and on their website, so I was surprised by your point 5!
_________________________
Jon
AM02 MOG
2011 Ivory Plus 4 Sport
Photos

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#553458 - 12/01/19 04:09 PM Re: Jaguar/Landrover Job cuts [Re: Jon G4LJW]
SteveLoc Offline

New to Talk Morgan

Registered: 10/02/18
Posts: 20
Loc: Kent
I work in the auto industry, we develop components for JLR and all its competitors.
JLR have already developed a Hybrid platform on sale now in the Range Rover, this technology will be shortly available on many other models. For example Discovery and the new Defender will be offered in Hybrid form.
_________________________
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