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#553337 - 11/01/19 10:59 PM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3386
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Craig, you are just a day behind me. I turn 60 on March 14th. I recommend the break reaction bars. I would say have a good look if you really like the Panhard Rod. If it is disadvantageous to comfort, the panhard rod can simply be dismantled again. I personally would say that a change to really good tyres is more essential than a PR on the base of the Continental OEM tyres.

The head mechanic of my Morgan shop claims the philosophy that many of the measures that only stiffen the chassis selectively are not good for the behave of the whole chassis. And he restored some classic Morgan cars, many of them pre-war.
I also believe this through many years of experience.
Instead of the Panhard Rod, which does provide more obvious control, the car is at least as fast when you overcome fear.
The secret is to distinguish which lateral movement is caused by the offset of the axle under the chassis and which other lateral movement is caused by the offset of the tyres. Then you are even faster without a Panhard Rod.

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#553353 - 12/01/19 04:38 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
Stewart S Online   content
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Needs to Get Out More!

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 9836
Loc: Lancashire, England
Interesting post Heinz
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#553355 - 12/01/19 06:16 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
Rob Thornton Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 06/07/15
Posts: 192
Loc: Reading
Yes, very interesting. It reminds me of a point made in a book on engineering structures I read many moons ago: 'Structures - or why things don't fall down' by J E Gordon. In it, he relates engineering principles to everyday experiences but one of the points that stuck in my head was that strengthening elements of a structure - say after repair work to a component - can sometimes cause unexpected performance or failure in other seemingly unrelated parts of a structure at a later, and perhaps unpredicted date. The example used related to ships but would apply to most structures that flex and move I guess, hence my post!
_________________________
Rob T
2001 Royal Ivory Plus 8

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#553357 - 12/01/19 07:17 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
ewn Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 1005
Loc: NE Scotland
When I first bought my car, there was definitely something disconcerting going on with lateral movement at the rear, I even removed and checked the wheels and hubs a few times to make sure everything was as it should be.
Now, I couldn’t say if the movement has reduced or ceased for whatever reason, or if I’ve adjusted my driving to suit, but I honesty don’t have an issue with it anymore, in fact I quite enjoy the pointy, abrupt turn in feel of the chassis and wouldn’t want to change it.

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#553358 - 12/01/19 07:32 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
SFG Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/03/17
Posts: 712
Loc: South Oxfordshire
Heinz, I am a day after you, and I went for a drive yesterday around a tight uphill hairpin bend just below White Horse hill, and when I put the power on, the inside wheel lifted and I found myself in a modest power slide. I expect my tyres are a bit brittle, and I have no suspension mods. It's great fun to drive like that, so I'm going to keep it that way!


Edited by SFG (12/01/19 07:32 AM)
_________________________
SFG
2012 4/4 Sport

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#553362 - 12/01/19 08:39 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
andymot Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 11/09/14
Posts: 725
Loc: East Sussex, ENGLAND
Heinz makes a very valid point about the original tyres - they are hard wearing and fine but not the grippiest - most noticeable in the wet. Many Morgan owners have found better alternatives and my experience with many other cars has shown tyres make a huge difference to how a car drives/handles.

However regarding the Panhard rod. I noticed a marked improvement at the first roundabout - makes the car feel more stable/planted. Even my passenger noticed the change. Its had some other unexpected advantages too - the pull away is smoother and no longer do I get the occasional noise of the prop rubbing on the tunnel. This used to occur when the car was 2 up and pulling well over undulating roads - never happened since the rod was installed.

So whist not wishing to contradict what others have said I personally found the panhard rod a worthy addition.

I have no doubt better tyres would be great as well however.
_________________________
2015 Morgan 4/4 (Wolf tuned engine, steering and suspension)
Mazda MX5+some preserved BL relics.


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#553363 - 12/01/19 08:41 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
Gambalunga Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 10525
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
It is one of the things that I noticed when I fitted the suspension mods, particularly the 5 link rear, that with the wheels and body roll under better control it became much harder to get the rear end to break away. I can only assume that with all 4 tyres more firmly planted on the road I am getting better traction and less slip.
_________________________
Peter


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#553364 - 12/01/19 08:46 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Heinz]
Craig Jezz Online   content

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 731
Loc: Oxon
Originally Posted By Heinz
Craig, you are just a day behind me. I turn 60 on March 14th. I recommend the break reaction bars. I would say have a good look if you really like the Panhard Rod. If it is disadvantageous to comfort, the panhard rod can simply be dismantled again. I personally would say that a change to really good tyres is more essential than a PR on the base of the Continental OEM tyres.

The head mechanic of my Morgan shop claims the philosophy that many of the measures that only stiffen the chassis selectively are not good for the behave of the whole chassis. And he restored some classic Morgan cars, many of them pre-war.
I also believe this through many years of experience.
Instead of the Panhard Rod, which does provide more obvious control, the car is at least as fast when you overcome fear.
The secret is to distinguish which lateral movement is caused by the offset of the axle under the chassis and which other lateral movement is caused by the offset of the tyres. Then you are even faster without a Panhard Rod.



Heinz , have you ever driven a 4/4 with the Panhard Rod ? ? ...Those on here with the Panhard Rod have had positive results, maybe some axels slide more than others.

I can feel the axel slide on roundabouts (more so when I have a heavy passenger when entering at higher speeds) I don’t like this feeling. Maybe it’s because I’m too used to my every day car BMW 3 series M Sport Xdrive
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)
BWM 320d M Sport Xdrive

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#553368 - 12/01/19 09:15 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
Gambalunga Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 10525
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
I have driven the Plus 4 with and without a panhard rod before fitting the 5 link supension. Now I do prefer a firmish rear suspension, mainly for the touring luggage loads (blame swmbo) that we carry but I did notice that the panhard rod did definitely make the rear less supple.

Regarding the 5 link I have fitted a higher rate spring (supplied by SSL for the purpose) than the standard mainly for the above mentioned luggage loads. It is interesting that, as SSL predicted, that from the point of view of comfort of the ride I really didn't notice the difference.

The idea of the higher rated springs was to maintain better ground clearance when the car was fully loaded.
_________________________
Peter


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#553369 - 12/01/19 09:20 AM Re: 1.6 ltr to weedy ? [Re: Bonesie]
ewn Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 1005
Loc: NE Scotland
I dare say the leaves of my springs have possibly mated better over time and although not visibly worn, the tyres have changed too, I think I’m at about 10k miles, perhaps these things have an effect.

I also run my tyres at a higher pressure than standard, I can’t remember what that is, I just blew them up a bit until it felt right.

I’ll be fifty this year too by the way Craig, I was very sensible when I was young, but I’m making up for it now! laugh2

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