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Shocking news - it's electric #556928
31/01/19 11:57 AM
31/01/19 11:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
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Yorkshire
Personally as an exponent of EV's, even this surprised me

WhatCar Car of the Year, is the Kia e-Niro
280 odd miles on the latest tougher WLTP range test & 80% recharge on 54 mins

I understand there are a lot of anti EV views on TM, but for me it proves even the mainstream manufacturers are serious


Jon M
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556929
31/01/19 12:04 PM
31/01/19 12:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,689
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
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Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By CooperMan
Personally as an exponent of EV's, even this surprised me

WhatCar Car of the Year, is the Kia e-Niro
280 odd miles on the latest tougher WLTP range test & 80% recharge on 54 mins

I understand there are a lot of anti EV views on TM, but for me it proves even the mainstream manufacturers are serious


That's seriously impressive, isn't it? Amazing the progress that's being made.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556933
31/01/19 12:06 PM
31/01/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,547
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
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Salisbury, UK
Nothing wrong with an EV and the manufacturers are serious.

But they need to get charging infrastructure to match.

ICE engines all have a common refuelling technology, available anywhere and it takes no time at all.

Until all EVs have a common charging technology and I can have one fitted at my home I'm not going to change. Nor will car rental firms or other big users.


Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8


Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556946
31/01/19 01:19 PM
31/01/19 01:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,670
East Anglia
madmax Offline
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madmax  Offline
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East Anglia
Not against EV , as Peter J says the devil is in the detail as usual !


Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .


Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556948
31/01/19 01:22 PM
31/01/19 01:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,733
Devonshire
+8Rich Online content
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Devonshire
Good news at last a smaller car with realistic range capability, once the charging infrastructure catches up these should sell well.

Tesla had it sorted from day one with an attractive car and good range with charging stations - the only problem being they have yet to make any profit as I understand it !


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green
1994 Connaught Green +8





Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556952
31/01/19 01:50 PM
31/01/19 01:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,842
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
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Richard Wood  Offline
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East Harling, Norfolk UK
As battery technology and ranges increase so will the need for high power mains supplies for fast home charging. Most don't have the mains supply infrastructure which will likely involve three phase.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Richard Wood] #556953
31/01/19 02:00 PM
31/01/19 02:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
CooperMan  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Richard Wood
As battery technology and ranges increase so will the need for high power mains supplies for fast home charging. Most don't have the mains supply infrastructure which will likely involve three phase.


My home charge point shoves in 7.5kW and will fully charge my new version larger battery pack in about 5hrs, so I just bung it on overnight, whilst downing breakfast I can pre-condition via the mobile app, & if it's still plugged in, it takes juice from the mains to keep range full, when I set off to work it's defrosted and toasty warm inside !


Jon M
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556964
31/01/19 03:04 PM
31/01/19 03:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,842
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
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Richard Wood  Offline
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Posts: 1,842
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted By CooperMan
Originally Posted By Richard Wood
As battery technology and ranges increase so will the need for high power mains supplies for fast home charging. Most don't have the mains supply infrastructure which will likely involve three phase.


My home charge point shoves in 7.5kW and will fully charge my new version larger battery pack in about 5hrs, so I just bung it on overnight, whilst downing breakfast I can pre-condition via the mobile app, & if it's still plugged in, it takes juice from the mains to keep range full, when I set off to work it's defrosted and toasty warm inside !


7.5 kW is the current bottom end of fast charging but still takes around 33 amps max (allowing for AC to DC losses) from presumably single phase so ideally requires 40 amp cabling and breakers, i.e. 10 mm2 cables. OK if you already have a 10kW power shower I guess but pushing the limits for anything more powerful.

Note Tesla have already seen the need for their 120 kW Superchargers for rapid charging. That's 170 amps AC from each of three phases! OK very unlikely you would want such at home but puts the topic in perspective.

Another aspect to consider is the collective AC power draw on a housing estate for example. Many years ago it was noted a big surge in demand when each of the popular TV soaps finished as householders turned on their (3kW) electric kettles for a cuppa. Imagine the surge when we all plug in our upwards of 7kW EV chargers in the evening, and not just for a minute. Present supply infrastructure won't cope.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556965
31/01/19 03:16 PM
31/01/19 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,434
Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Paul F Offline
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Paul F  Offline
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Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Smart charging infrastructure is already being planned. This will enable vehicle charging to be phased in line with supply availability and will also enable vehicles to return power to the grid if connected at times of peak demand.

National Grid have some publications which are useful. The most basic one is here.


Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 4
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Peter J] #556971
31/01/19 03:39 PM
31/01/19 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,606
norfolk, UK
L
lowebird Offline
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L

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Posts: 3,606
norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By Peter J
Nothing wrong with an EV and the manufacturers are serious.

But they need to get charging infrastructure to match.

ICE engines all have a common refuelling technology, available anywhere and it takes no time at all.

Until all EVs have a common charging technology and I can have one fitted at my home I'm not going to change. Nor will car rental firms or other big users.



A very common sense post about this subject. I recently had a heated discussion with a dealer about this and he just wouldn't accept that our infrastructure needs to be updated and enlarged to cope and even then, although EV's are good at the point of use what about the poor sods who have to live next to the power station?


Here for a good time not a long time!!
Reg
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556981
31/01/19 04:12 PM
31/01/19 04:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,376
H
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline
Part of the Furniture
H

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,376
Originally Posted By CooperMan
Personally as an exponent of EV's, even this surprised me

WhatCar Car of the Year, is the Kia e-Niro
280 odd miles on the latest tougher WLTP range test & 80% recharge on 54 mins

I understand there are a lot of anti EV views on TM, but for me it proves even the mainstream manufacturers are serious


Nonsense - it just reflects the poor taste of the journos involved. The real EVO car of the year is a McLaren.

Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #556987
31/01/19 04:30 PM
31/01/19 04:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
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Hampshire
They are not something I am ready for but I do admire how well Kia have done with the e-Niro. It seems a decent car in ICE format and very good value/range in e form. It is becoming practical for a lot more people at this point.

Hyundai/Kia have really moved their game on with the new sporty ones and the e models. I see more and more of these and less Vauxhall/Ford cars these days.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Alistair] #556994
31/01/19 04:43 PM
31/01/19 04:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,378
Renfrewshire
BobtheTrain Offline
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Renfrewshire
Originally Posted By Alistair
I see more and more of these and less Vauxhall/Ford cars these days.

Fewer.


Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Paul F] #557001
31/01/19 05:04 PM
31/01/19 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,842
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
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Richard Wood  Offline
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Posts: 1,842
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted By Paul F
Smart charging infrastructure is already being planned. This will enable vehicle charging to be phased in line with supply availability and will also enable vehicles to return power to the grid if connected at times of peak demand.

National Grid have some publications which are useful. The most basic one is here.


Thanks for link Paul.

So our EV's will collectively act as a massive battery to even out power demand peaks in the evenings - can't imagine that going down well with the typically self centered public despite metering to compensate innocent

Not saying the changes won't happen or eventually work but imagine a host of unforseen hurdles on the way.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Paul F] #557003
31/01/19 05:35 PM
31/01/19 05:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,547
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,547
Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By Paul F
Smart charging infrastructure is already being planned. This will enable vehicle charging to be phased in line with supply availability and will also enable vehicles to return power to the grid if connected at times of peak demand.

National Grid have some publications which are useful. The most basic one is here.


I has a talk with a local engineer who works for Scottish and Southern, who manage the Grid in this area. I asked him if I could get a 3 phase supply: he said only if they disconnected 2 or my neighbours!

The issue are the "up the pole" transformers and the conversion from 33Kv to 11Kv. Most non urban domestic users have 230v, 80A single phase feeds.
30 years ago no one could imagine this being insufficient. Now it is.

Another example: a local landowner was well down the track planning the installation of a substantial solar power station. Everything was looking good until it was discovered that the nearest sub station that could accept the power was 6km away and the cost of upgrading the 132Kv lines killed the project stone dead.

My view is that in the country, where people struggle to get 3G mobile and fast broadband running an EV is years away.


Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8


Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Peter J] #557010
31/01/19 05:55 PM
31/01/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,493
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
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Posts: 22,493
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
You could always take a feed from your solar panels Peter.
I'd like a hybrid that handles as well as the MINI though.
Every intention of connecting to my solar PV. Only trouble is winter - wonder if MMC would let me plug in while I take a tour group around smile


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: BobtheTrain] #557026
31/01/19 07:14 PM
31/01/19 07:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Originally Posted By BobtheTrain
Originally Posted By Alistair
I see more and more of these and less Vauxhall/Ford cars these days.

Fewer.


Solly, my English is not very good. I failed the A Level twice. I spent too much time in the computer labs.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Peter J] #557029
31/01/19 07:44 PM
31/01/19 07:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,670
East Anglia
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture
madmax  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,670
East Anglia
Originally Posted By Peter J
Originally Posted By Paul F
Smart charging infrastructure is already being planned. This will enable vehicle charging to be phased in line with supply availability and will also enable vehicles to return power to the grid if connected at times of peak demand.

National Grid have some publications which are useful. The most basic one is here.


I has a talk with a local engineer who works for Scottish and Southern, who manage the Grid in this area. I asked him if I could get a 3 phase supply: he said only if they disconnected 2 or my neighbours!

The issue are the "up the pole" transformers and the conversion from 33Kv to 11Kv. Most non urban domestic users have 230v, 80A single phase feeds.
30 years ago no one could imagine this being insufficient. Now it is.

Another example: a local landowner was well down the track planning the installation of a substantial solar power station. Everything was looking good until it was discovered that the nearest sub station that could accept the power was 6km away and the cost of upgrading the 132Kv lines killed the project stone dead.

My view is that in the country, where people struggle to get 3G mobile and fast broadband running an EV is years away.



That means I will have to continue to drive a v8 just that little bit longer , dreadful !


Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .


Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557030
31/01/19 07:49 PM
31/01/19 07:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Would there be a tax break for those that are willing to use there spare V8's as local generators for the grid during peak hours. Strap them to a treadmill/rolling road and feed the grid.

Of course we may need to get functioning silencers in some cases.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Paul F] #557141
01/02/19 11:07 AM
01/02/19 11:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,998
Cologne, Germany
Heinz Online content
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Heinz  Online Content
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Posts: 3,998
Cologne, Germany
Originally Posted By Paul F
Smart charging infrastructure is already being planned. This will enable vehicle charging to be phased in line with supply availability and will also enable vehicles to return power to the grid if connected at times of peak demand.

National Grid have some publications which are useful. The most basic one is here.


The idea of feeding the grid with the parked cars has already existed in this country. That was a point in earlier visions of the future. Long before the battery was declared a holy grail.
But these older thoughts to feed the grid were based on hydrogen propulsion when the cars actively generate electricity, while they park. In my view not too bad of an idea if hydrohen should work in the future.

Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557162
01/02/19 12:29 PM
01/02/19 12:29 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,313
Llanelli
sospan Offline
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sospan  Offline
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Posts: 6,313
Llanelli
To me Hydrogen would seem a good route rather than pure EV.
I know that cracking water to generate it needs improving but I am a bit cynical about behind the scenes lobbying by oil/electric industry influencing political policy.
The oil industry in particular, unless they have non publicised hydrogen research and development going on.
Tesla surprise me too as they seem commited to Li battery power from conventional ( plus his solar/battery pack) sources for charging, and Elon Musk seems to be less than innovative than he claims. He must have seen Hydrogen as a possibility?


Red Plus8
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557171
01/02/19 01:04 PM
01/02/19 01:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 371
Lampeter, Wales
Jon G4LJW Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Jon G4LJW  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 371
Lampeter, Wales
Hopefully, hydrogen production will become much cheaper with technology like this in development -

https://www.futurity.org/artificial-photosynthesis-hydrogen-1749492/

- this creates the gas directly from sunlight and salt water - no electricity is used.


Jon
AM02 MOG
2011 Sport White Plus 4 Sport
Photos
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557187
01/02/19 01:41 PM
01/02/19 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
CooperMan  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
I've not had to resort to this...yet, but it made me giggle



Jon M
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: Jon G4LJW] #557196
01/02/19 02:14 PM
01/02/19 02:14 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,313
Llanelli
sospan Offline
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sospan  Offline
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Posts: 6,313
Llanelli
Originally Posted By Jon G4LJW
Hopefully, hydrogen production will become much cheaper with technology like this in development -

https://www.futurity.org/artificial-photosynthesis-hydrogen-1749492/

- this creates the gas directly from sunlight and salt water - no electricity is used.

Milford Haven used to have several oil refineries, now just one. Plusthe gas terminal for importing gas and a pipeline to the rest of the country built a few years ago.Ideal location for seawater and a history of proven distribution. Economies of scale would help too.







Red Plus8
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557309
01/02/19 07:48 PM
01/02/19 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,313
Llanelli
sospan Offline
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sospan  Offline
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Llanelli
Alistair...I was in a Kia dealer today. Had a chat about the e-Niro. It does look a good car. They are having a demo car in March. The PHEV was there in the showroom and the specs they have look decent value, albeit a higher than ICE cost.
Tempting though.


Red Plus8
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557332
01/02/19 08:19 PM
01/02/19 08:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,395
South Yorks
Clipper Offline
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Clipper  Offline
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Posts: 3,395
South Yorks
Just googled it - not loving the looks - especially those horrible wheel arches.


2017 Ravenblau Blue Aero 8
2010 Ferrari Blue Plus Four




DHA1G
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557355
01/02/19 09:14 PM
01/02/19 09:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
As you say, not beautiful in the conventional sense however it is in the manner of most modern road SUV's. There are worse, but the overall package is good value and well made I thought.

Perhaps they are trying to look like a cross between a prada shoe and a defender to maximise the market opporchancity.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557380
01/02/19 10:30 PM
01/02/19 10:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,085
Dorset, UK
milligoon Offline
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Dorset, UK
How can a limited supply car be car of the year?

The Koreans seem to have an issue with supply either that or are treating them as compliance vehicles as they sell alongside the ICE and Hybrid versions of the same vehicle.

As for real world tests actual standards come no where near the tests TeslaBjørn carries out on youtube He likes his Tesla's obviously but performs a lot of repetitive tests on real roads in real conditions in Norway he isn't shy of expressing his opinions over whether he likes a particular car or not, but he has a reputation that allowed him early access to test the Audi E-Tron.

You have to take a lot of "youtubers" opinions with a large pinch of salt (as they tend to favour the cars that they own strangely wink) but there is a lot of useful information out there.

Interesting times in the burgoening world of eV's.


Mark - No Longer driving
Archie the Old English Sheep Mog...........
2010 Roadster 3.0 V6 (S3) wink
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557381
01/02/19 10:36 PM
01/02/19 10:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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Alistair  Offline
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Talk Morgan Sage

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Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
You are right Mark. I always get peed off when they say the best drivers car of the year is a Pork GT3xx-rx model. 20 RHD models will be released on our island and all are sold. So what good is that to me even if I did have £160k to spare. Perhaps we should recommend to them they split awards into two groups, cars made of unobtanium and normal ones?


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Shocking news - it's electric [Re: CooperMan] #557621
03/02/19 11:56 AM
03/02/19 11:56 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,313
Llanelli
sospan Offline
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Llanelli
Most tintops I have owned have been to fill a function. Workhorses that fit child carrying, dog carrying, annual mileage etc..
The Morgan is a pure fun car.
The reason I am tempted by an EV is because swmbo is the main user and analysing the journeys puts EV in the frame. The earlier cars were either too expensive and low range . I did cost calculations and the numbers didn’t make sense. Same reasoning for switching to and away from diesel as needs changed.
Finding a car to function as shopping wagon, grandchildren carrier, dog carrier, golf gear carrier etc means a general compromise as I won’t be buying multiple cars designed to cover requirements.
I wear caps/hats and several to meet needs....rain, golf, Morgan, sunshade etc..but they are cheap enough.
I will probably give the e-Niro a test drive with swmbo in March when one arrives. Who knows...if the maths are ok I may be tempted.


Red Plus8
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