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#556934 - 31/01/19 12:06 PM Garage Humidity
IvorMog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/04/17
Posts: 722
Loc: Staffordshire
I've been toying with the idea of putting a de-humidifier in the garage and justifying the purchase by offsetting the costs against reduced maintenance on the car and keeping Mog in a better environment.

But being an analytical type of chap, I thought I would measure the humidity level first to see if there would be much benefit.

I've been running the test for a few days now and it's been varying from 51% to 56% with outside humidity in the mid to high 80's.

Garage temperature between +5 and +10 (Celsius)
Outside temperature between -6 and +8

I think most de-humidifier standard settings seem to be that they start up when the humidity goes above 60% although that can be altered on the better models.

Question is, if my garage normally stays below 60%, is there any need for a de-humidifier?

I was out in the car 2 weeks ago in torrential rain for about 4 hours in total (hood up) and a few days later I went for a short drive and then washed the car before returning it to the garage.

So the car has been in the garage in a very damp state but it still seems to have dried out nicely.

Thoughts please on garage humidity levels and their effect on Morgan dryness.
_________________________
Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec

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#556936 - 31/01/19 12:13 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16981
Loc: South Yorkshire
I've had dehumidifiers in my garage for over 30 years. I don't leave it running all the time. Last summer it was hardly on. Now it's too cold, as it ices up on the back within a couple of hours.

So although I wouldn't be without one, for those damp days when the car needs drying off, it's certainly not plug in and forget either.

Before this, I would see light surface corrosion on unprotected metal in damp conditions, and I never get that now.
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#556937 - 31/01/19 12:15 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10938
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Our garage is integral with the house, 2 walls and a ceiling shared with the house.
The walls are cavity and insulated, the ceiling is insulated and the window is double glazed.
The roller shutter door is insulated.
The garage is not heated, but even in the winter temperature rarely drops below 10C.
Humidity is as per the house, 50% typically at this time of year.

My woodworking tools stay bright and shiny. So I I don't think a dehumidifier is needed.

If the garage shows signs of condensation, as did a previous one, especially on the uninsulated roof, then I feel that a dehumidifier is essential.
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#556939 - 31/01/19 12:18 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 7149
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Yes, I'd be happy with a garage humidity of <60%. When I had the Morgan in a asbestos-roofed concrete garage I needed a dehumidifier on pretty much all the time in winter, if it got down to <70% I was satisfied.
_________________________
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#556940 - 31/01/19 12:19 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
SFG Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 23/03/17
Posts: 744
Loc: South Oxfordshire
I think we would have heard lots of horror stories about cars vapourising when put away wet, if it was really an issue. I just leave the garage door open for a couple of hours after getting it wet.
I hope I have squirted all the recommended preparations over the underside, more for peace of mind, I think. If that was no use, why did I bother?
_________________________
SFG
2012 4/4 Sport

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#556941 - 31/01/19 12:33 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 812
Loc: Oxon
I lined my garage with 50mm Cellotex and fixed 12.5mm WBP plywood over the face

Then Installed industrial carpets tiles, my garage is dry as a bone. No need for dehumidifier electrical bills for me.


Edited by Craig Jezz (31/01/19 12:38 PM)
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#556943 - 31/01/19 12:44 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: DaveW]
A11OGE Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 14/05/07
Posts: 4093
Loc: Reading
much the same for me, for the past 15 years.
can put the car away damp (hood, chassis etc). No sign of rust.
also all the garden tools etc also stay rust-free.

Don't use it all the time, but like DaveW.

Originally Posted By DaveW
I've had dehumidifiers in my garage for over 30 years. I don't leave it running all the time. Last summer it was hardly on. Now it's too cold, as it ices up on the back within a couple of hours.

So although I wouldn't be without one, for those damp days when the car needs drying off, it's certainly not plug in and forget either.

Before this, I would see light surface corrosion on unprotected metal in damp conditions, and I never get that now.
_________________________
Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'

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#556945 - 31/01/19 01:06 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
60Yards Online   content
Just Getting Started

Registered: 18/07/14
Posts: 87
Loc: Netherlands
My car is in an insulated and mildly heated garage, with a humidity in between 50-55% at the moment. I leave a window open (small gap).
I have a dehumidifier but only use it when I put the car away wet, to dry it quicker. It has a function to automatically switch off after 2-4-8 hrs.
No idea if this makes a lot of difference in the long run, but it makes me feel I'm doing what I can to keep the car in good condition...
_________________________
Thomas
2017 Plus4

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#556950 - 31/01/19 01:38 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Jack The Lad Offline
Posting Desperado
Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 7697
Loc: The frozen North
Its a big garage I have so purchased a load of carpet tiles from that B&M place and covered the walls . They are thick and come in different colours . Its made a big difference as I also sealed every gap with caulk . You can feel that difference when stepping inside. Also handy if any of the car doors etc touch the walls.

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#556959 - 31/01/19 02:48 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
jimmyw Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 158
Loc: Perthshire Scotland
A desiccant dehumidifier works in cold environments
I leave it on all winter,it is set to 60% has 3 power settings and drains into a large container.
The pure water is good for mixing with antifreeze for coolant changes .
My wife also used it in her iron. Pure steam .
_________________________
Jimmy
2015 4/4 Sport Green

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#556984 - 31/01/19 04:17 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 4113
From another angle, the family car is never garaged ( and rarely washed) but in its ten year life to replacement, I dont get any rust issues

I think you are in danger of being a bit precious.

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#556997 - 31/01/19 04:45 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 10103
Loc: Lancashire, England
I have an integral non heated garage with insulated cavity brick walls but I do have a dehumidifier on occationally whenever I’ve been out in damp conditions (I always dry off when wet) or if the weather is damp outside

it often amazes me how much water it can take out sometimes so I always think it’s a good thing - I’ve had a few occasions where 10 litres has been collected in 24 hours

Sometimes it can be on and it takes out a dribble but at least I know moisture isn’t killing the Mog

I’d recommend them
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#556998 - 31/01/19 04:48 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Neptune Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 05/09/16
Posts: 74
Pardon my ignorance, I know very little about dehumidifiers.
Would your garage need to be well sealed, gaps around doors etc, or would I just be dehumidifying planet earth (might take a while)?

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#557023 - 31/01/19 06:51 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
andymot Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 11/09/14
Posts: 739
Loc: East Sussex, ENGLAND
Best seal it up as best you can if using a dehumidifier.

I agree with Jimmy - I too have a desiccant version - they work perfectly ok in low temps where normal ones can't operate.

Do you need one? Easy to check - put some steel items in the garage and see what happens to them! Tools etc or even a piece of sheet steel. If it forms rust then maybe yes - de-humidifier needed. Not essential - just nice to have!

Since having one my instruments don't mist up hardly at all on cold days-as they used to. I aim for a RH between 45-55%. Precious? Yes I guess so but brings some piece of mind.


Remember it can also be too dry! ( well ok not in the UK during winter!) but a relative humidity of under 35% for long periods will crack leather and damage plastic items etc.


Edited by andymot (31/01/19 06:58 PM)
_________________________
2015 Morgan 4/4 (Wolf tuned engine, steering and suspension)
Mazda MX5+some preserved BL relics.


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#557028 - 31/01/19 07:42 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
KEVFITZ Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 26/09/14
Posts: 1377
Loc: YORK
Isn't there something to be said about keeping the car outside with good air circulation under a good storm cover and use it often.

I don't have a garage but I am retired and drive it often.

More difficult I understand for those that can only manage infrequent use.
_________________________
HEAR THOSE THROTTLE BODIES ROAR !!!!

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#557032 - 31/01/19 07:59 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: jimmyw]
CooperMan Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 19/11/15
Posts: 648
Loc: Yorkshire
Originally Posted By jimmyw
A desiccant dehumidifier works in cold environments
I leave it on all winter,it is set to 60% has 3 power settings and drains into a large container.
The pure water is good for mixing with antifreeze for coolant changes .
My wife also used it in her iron. Pure steam .


Mine must be one of those, I think it's called a Ruby Dry ?
a little bonus is that it raises the garage temp a couple of degrees, which is handy this time of year
_________________________
Jon M

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#557034 - 31/01/19 08:03 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5467
Loc: Hampshire
How well sealed and insulated is the garage?
Do you have other things in there that would benefit as well?

A carcoon or other brand of car bubble might work out cheaper in the long run? https://www.demon-tweeks.com/carcoon-evo-outdoor-car-storage-system-525191/
_________________________
Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.

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#557040 - 31/01/19 08:29 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 812
Loc: Oxon
I just checked my garage temperature this evening, I have no dehumidifier or any form of heating, only insulated walls / ceilings and carpet tiles.

Outside temp 0
Garage temp 38 F
Garage humidity 69%

dewpoint is 29 (going on the online calculator)

Looking at the graph below, I’m within the recommended storage area.

Have I worked this out correctly ?




Edited by Craig Jezz (31/01/19 08:31 PM)
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#557044 - 31/01/19 08:57 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
PHZI Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 71
Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!

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#557045 - 31/01/19 09:08 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: PHZI]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 812
Loc: Oxon
Originally Posted By PHZI
Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!


No problem at all if you want to keep your Morgan outside.
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#557056 - 31/01/19 10:31 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 111
Loc: Mercia, UK
Hi everyone,

Many many years ago MMC told me an airy garage was ideal, a car port even.

So,I bought an Airflow chamber and it seems to work for me.

Discs do not yellow up and bodywork dries up if the car goes in wet (a seldom ocassion).

Keeps dust off too, and the odd small ltem that falls from a nearby shelf.
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#557060 - 31/01/19 11:01 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Esprit Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 15/09/18
Posts: 63
Many years ago I recall advice in a motoring journal that a car port was better than a garage as it allowed air to circulate.
_________________________
Tom

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#557102 - 01/02/19 09:05 AM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Tresco Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 13/11/16
Posts: 64
Loc: Thatcham
Would be nice to have a garage but ours is outside and in the winter is in one of these https://www.autopyjama.com/permabag-engl/cars/ which keeps it around 60% humidity and comes out looking as good as it went in and from September last year it is also under one of these https://rolloutcovers.co.uk so now has double protection.
_________________________
Ian

70th Anniversary 4/4 Edition (1976)

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#557117 - 01/02/19 10:04 AM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Tresco]
Michael P Online   content

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 202
Loc: Vienna, Austria
The relative air humidity is very strongly dependent on the temperature.

100% r.h. at 0°C corresponds to approx.
70% at 5°C,
50% at 10°C and
35% at 15°C.

For details see here.
Unfortunately, I did not find a diagram with English lettering blush (simply search for Mollier diagram or h-x diagram).

The diagram is a bit confusing at first glance.
If you want to know which humidity at a certain temperature corresponds to the value at another temperature, simply proceed as follows:
In the graph, find the intersection of the initial temperature (red line) and the initial humidity (blue line) and then go down or up along the vertical (gray) line to the desired target temperature. From this intersection, follow the blue line > target humidity.

This diagram also shows when air of a certain temperature and humidity condenses during cooling. Simply follow the grey line down to the intersection of the blue line for 100% humidity.

I would try to avoid a relative humidity above 70%. Good ventilation is usually sufficient.

Dehumidifying air is a fairly energy-intensive process. If you decide to dehumidify the air, you should make sure that the room to be dehumidified is well sealed - otherwise you dehumidify the ambient air wink
_________________________
Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport

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#557122 - 01/02/19 10:18 AM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Esprit]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4009
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By Esprit
Many years ago I recall advice in a motoring journal that a car port was better than a garage as it allowed air to circulate.
. My cars live in an older metal roofed garage with plenty of drafts.does not seem to have an averse effect on them, exept for some condensation drips in cold weather. Biggest problem is warming it enough to work in winter even with a pot belly stove.
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#557129 - 01/02/19 10:42 AM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Ray]
JCK Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 17/09/16
Posts: 217
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
I keep my car in Massachusetts where summer.rs are hot and humid and winters extremely cold and dry. I don't drive the Morgan in winter because of the cold and the salt and other c**p on the roads. I rent a garage because I don't have one at home. Last year's garage let water in frequently but wasn't ventilated. This year's is concrete, dry, and extremely well ventilated. I am much more relaxed.
_________________________
JCK
1960 Plus 4 Roadster

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#557151 - 01/02/19 11:38 AM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
Neilda Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 26/04/12
Posts: 4388
Loc: Surrey. UK
My cars live in an oak barn - which suffers from less condensation than brick built garages I've had in the past. I run a dehumidifier... a £200 thing I bought years ago and it's permanently on. I've no idea if it's effective, but I have no rust on tools or cars.

I am told that heating a garage is a bad idea as that does promote condensation.
_________________________
+8 4.8

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#557175 - 01/02/19 01:08 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Craig Jezz]
Michael P Online   content

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 02/09/12
Posts: 202
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Outside temp 0
Garage temp 38 F
Garage humidity 69%

dewpoint is 29 (going on the online calculator)

Looking at the graph below, I’m within the recommended storage area.

Have I worked this out correctly ?

It's correct. At a relative humidity of 69% at 38°F, the dew point is 29°F (the outside temperature is irrelevant for the calculation). According to the graph this is in the recommended range.
_________________________
Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport

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#557180 - 01/02/19 01:22 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Craig Jezz]
PHZI Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 71
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By PHZI
Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!


No problem at all if you want to keep your Morgan outside.


Inside my garage actually.

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#557190 - 01/02/19 01:47 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: PHZI]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 812
Loc: Oxon
Originally Posted By PHZI
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By PHZI
Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!


No problem at all if you want to keep your Morgan outside.


Inside my garage actually.


Now that is a good idea 👍
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#557251 - 01/02/19 04:49 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Craig Jezz]
Deejay Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 20/06/15
Posts: 175
Loc: North Somerset, UK
Dehumidifier + all gaps sealed up = essential to be effective
Dehumidifier + gaps not sealed = wasting your money
No dehumidifier + gaps sealed up = Inviting condensation to form
No dehumidifier + gaps to allow free flow of air = as good and as cheap as it gets.
As an illustration:
SWMBO insists on closing bedroom windows at night, then wonders why windows are misted up in the morning!!

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#557256 - 01/02/19 05:04 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Deejay]
BobtheTrain Online   content

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 15/04/14
Posts: 4949
Loc: Renfrewshire
Originally Posted By Deejay
SWMBO insists on closing bedroom windows at night, then wonders why windows are misted up in the morning!!

Are you sure it's because the windows are shut? blush
_________________________
Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek

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#557259 - 01/02/19 05:10 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog]
IvorMog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 17/04/17
Posts: 722
Loc: Staffordshire
Thanks everyone for your thoughts both scientific and anecdotal.

I suppose with hindsight, I should have recognised that I never get rusty tools in the garage which is effectively part of the house with cavity wall insulation and a room above it.

There is just the slightest gap around the door which I guess helps with the ventilation and I have a modern condensing central heating boiler in there which, whilst well insulated, must give some heat into the garage.

I had to put the car away soaking wet the other day and I noticed that the Mohair hood did dry out completely within 2 - 3 days.

So for the time being I'll spend my money on something else for Mog and I'll use my chisels like taking budgies down the mines in the old days.

If my best wood chisels don't rust (without being oiled) then it can't be too damp.


Edited by IvorMog (01/02/19 05:27 PM)
_________________________
Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec

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#557325 - 01/02/19 08:15 PM Re: Garage Humidity [Re: BobtheTrain]
Deejay Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 20/06/15
Posts: 175
Loc: North Somerset, UK
Originally Posted By BobtheTrain
Originally Posted By Deejay
SWMBO insists on closing bedroom windows at night, then wonders why windows are misted up in the morning!!

Are you sure it's because the windows are shut? blush

Alas, the only heavy breathing nowadays stems from her asthma and my blocked sinuses! 😴

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