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Garage Humidity #556934
31/01/19 12:06 PM
31/01/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 792
Staffordshire
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IvorMog Offline OP
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Staffordshire
I've been toying with the idea of putting a de-humidifier in the garage and justifying the purchase by offsetting the costs against reduced maintenance on the car and keeping Mog in a better environment.

But being an analytical type of chap, I thought I would measure the humidity level first to see if there would be much benefit.

I've been running the test for a few days now and it's been varying from 51% to 56% with outside humidity in the mid to high 80's.

Garage temperature between +5 and +10 (Celsius)
Outside temperature between -6 and +8

I think most de-humidifier standard settings seem to be that they start up when the humidity goes above 60% although that can be altered on the better models.

Question is, if my garage normally stays below 60%, is there any need for a de-humidifier?

I was out in the car 2 weeks ago in torrential rain for about 4 hours in total (hood up) and a few days later I went for a short drive and then washed the car before returning it to the garage.

So the car has been in the garage in a very damp state but it still seems to have dried out nicely.

Thoughts please on garage humidity levels and their effect on Morgan dryness.


Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556936
31/01/19 12:13 PM
31/01/19 12:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,596
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
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South Yorkshire
I've had dehumidifiers in my garage for over 30 years. I don't leave it running all the time. Last summer it was hardly on. Now it's too cold, as it ices up on the back within a couple of hours.

So although I wouldn't be without one, for those damp days when the car needs drying off, it's certainly not plug in and forget either.

Before this, I would see light surface corrosion on unprotected metal in damp conditions, and I never get that now.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556937
31/01/19 12:15 PM
31/01/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,545
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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Salisbury, UK
Our garage is integral with the house, 2 walls and a ceiling shared with the house.
The walls are cavity and insulated, the ceiling is insulated and the window is double glazed.
The roller shutter door is insulated.
The garage is not heated, but even in the winter temperature rarely drops below 10C.
Humidity is as per the house, 50% typically at this time of year.

My woodworking tools stay bright and shiny. So I I don't think a dehumidifier is needed.

If the garage shows signs of condensation, as did a previous one, especially on the uninsulated roof, then I feel that a dehumidifier is essential.


Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8


Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556939
31/01/19 12:18 PM
31/01/19 12:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,689
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
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Yes, I'd be happy with a garage humidity of <60%. When I had the Morgan in a asbestos-roofed concrete garage I needed a dehumidifier on pretty much all the time in winter, if it got down to <70% I was satisfied.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556940
31/01/19 12:19 PM
31/01/19 12:19 PM
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South Oxfordshire
SFG Offline
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South Oxfordshire
I think we would have heard lots of horror stories about cars vapourising when put away wet, if it was really an issue. I just leave the garage door open for a couple of hours after getting it wet.
I hope I have squirted all the recommended preparations over the underside, more for peace of mind, I think. If that was no use, why did I bother?


SFG
2012 4/4 Sport
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556941
31/01/19 12:33 PM
31/01/19 12:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 977
Oxon
Craig Jezz Offline
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Oxon
I lined my garage with 50mm Cellotex and fixed 12.5mm WBP plywood over the face

Then Installed industrial carpets tiles, my garage is dry as a bone. No need for dehumidifier electrical bills for me.

Last edited by Craig Jezz; 31/01/19 12:38 PM.

Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: DaveW] #556943
31/01/19 12:44 PM
31/01/19 12:44 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,187
Reading
A11OGE Offline
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Reading
much the same for me, for the past 15 years.
can put the car away damp (hood, chassis etc). No sign of rust.
also all the garden tools etc also stay rust-free.

Don't use it all the time, but like DaveW.

Originally Posted By DaveW
I've had dehumidifiers in my garage for over 30 years. I don't leave it running all the time. Last summer it was hardly on. Now it's too cold, as it ices up on the back within a couple of hours.

So although I wouldn't be without one, for those damp days when the car needs drying off, it's certainly not plug in and forget either.

Before this, I would see light surface corrosion on unprotected metal in damp conditions, and I never get that now.


Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556945
31/01/19 01:06 PM
31/01/19 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 106
Netherlands
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My car is in an insulated and mildly heated garage, with a humidity in between 50-55% at the moment. I leave a window open (small gap).
I have a dehumidifier but only use it when I put the car away wet, to dry it quicker. It has a function to automatically switch off after 2-4-8 hrs.
No idea if this makes a lot of difference in the long run, but it makes me feel I'm doing what I can to keep the car in good condition...


Thomas
2017 Plus4
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556950
31/01/19 01:38 PM
31/01/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,798
The frozen North
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Its a big garage I have so purchased a load of carpet tiles from that B&M place and covered the walls . They are thick and come in different colours . Its made a big difference as I also sealed every gap with caulk . You can feel that difference when stepping inside. Also handy if any of the car doors etc touch the walls.

Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556959
31/01/19 02:48 PM
31/01/19 02:48 PM
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Posts: 194
Perthshire Scotland
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A desiccant dehumidifier works in cold environments
I leave it on all winter,it is set to 60% has 3 power settings and drains into a large container.
The pure water is good for mixing with antifreeze for coolant changes .
My wife also used it in her iron. Pure steam .


Jimmy
2015 4/4 Sport Green
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556984
31/01/19 04:17 PM
31/01/19 04:17 PM
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Posts: 4,375
H
howard Offline
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From another angle, the family car is never garaged ( and rarely washed) but in its ten year life to replacement, I dont get any rust issues

I think you are in danger of being a bit precious.

Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556997
31/01/19 04:45 PM
31/01/19 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10,703
Lancashire, England
Stewart S Online content
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Lancashire, England
I have an integral non heated garage with insulated cavity brick walls but I do have a dehumidifier on occationally whenever I’ve been out in damp conditions (I always dry off when wet) or if the weather is damp outside

it often amazes me how much water it can take out sometimes so I always think it’s a good thing - I’ve had a few occasions where 10 litres has been collected in 24 hours

Sometimes it can be on and it takes out a dribble but at least I know moisture isn’t killing the Mog

I’d recommend them


2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #556998
31/01/19 04:48 PM
31/01/19 04:48 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, I know very little about dehumidifiers.
Would your garage need to be well sealed, gaps around doors etc, or would I just be dehumidifying planet earth (might take a while)?

Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557023
31/01/19 06:51 PM
31/01/19 06:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 817
East Sussex, ENGLAND
andymot Offline
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Best seal it up as best you can if using a dehumidifier.

I agree with Jimmy - I too have a desiccant version - they work perfectly ok in low temps where normal ones can't operate.

Do you need one? Easy to check - put some steel items in the garage and see what happens to them! Tools etc or even a piece of sheet steel. If it forms rust then maybe yes - de-humidifier needed. Not essential - just nice to have!

Since having one my instruments don't mist up hardly at all on cold days-as they used to. I aim for a RH between 45-55%. Precious? Yes I guess so but brings some piece of mind.


Remember it can also be too dry! ( well ok not in the UK during winter!) but a relative humidity of under 35% for long periods will crack leather and damage plastic items etc.

Last edited by andymot; 31/01/19 06:58 PM.

2015 Morgan 4/4 (Wolf tuned engine, steering and suspension)
Mazda MX5+some preserved BL relics.

Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557028
31/01/19 07:42 PM
31/01/19 07:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,649
YORK
KEVFITZ Offline
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YORK
Isn't there something to be said about keeping the car outside with good air circulation under a good storm cover and use it often.

I don't have a garage but I am retired and drive it often.

More difficult I understand for those that can only manage infrequent use.


HEAR THOSE THROTTLE BODIES ROAR ….UNEXPLODED BOMB !!!!
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: jimmyw] #557032
31/01/19 07:59 PM
31/01/19 07:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,118
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
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Yorkshire
Originally Posted By jimmyw
A desiccant dehumidifier works in cold environments
I leave it on all winter,it is set to 60% has 3 power settings and drains into a large container.
The pure water is good for mixing with antifreeze for coolant changes .
My wife also used it in her iron. Pure steam .


Mine must be one of those, I think it's called a Ruby Dry ?
a little bonus is that it raises the garage temp a couple of degrees, which is handy this time of year


Jon M
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557034
31/01/19 08:03 PM
31/01/19 08:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,083
Hampshire
Alistair Online happy
Smile, it confuses them
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Hampshire
How well sealed and insulated is the garage?
Do you have other things in there that would benefit as well?

A carcoon or other brand of car bubble might work out cheaper in the long run? https://www.demon-tweeks.com/carcoon-evo-outdoor-car-storage-system-525191/


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557040
31/01/19 08:29 PM
31/01/19 08:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 977
Oxon
Craig Jezz Offline
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Oxon
I just checked my garage temperature this evening, I have no dehumidifier or any form of heating, only insulated walls / ceilings and carpet tiles.

Outside temp 0
Garage temp 38 F
Garage humidity 69%

dewpoint is 29 (going on the online calculator)

Looking at the graph below, I’m within the recommended storage area.

Have I worked this out correctly ?



Last edited by Craig Jezz; 31/01/19 08:31 PM.

Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557044
31/01/19 08:57 PM
31/01/19 08:57 PM
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PHZI Offline
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Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!

Re: Garage Humidity [Re: PHZI] #557045
31/01/19 09:08 PM
31/01/19 09:08 PM
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Posts: 977
Oxon
Craig Jezz Offline
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Oxon
Originally Posted By PHZI
Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!


No problem at all if you want to keep your Morgan outside.


Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557056
31/01/19 10:31 PM
31/01/19 10:31 PM
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Posts: 131
Mercia, UK
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Mercia, UK
Hi everyone,

Many many years ago MMC told me an airy garage was ideal, a car port even.

So,I bought an Airflow chamber and it seems to work for me.

Discs do not yellow up and bodywork dries up if the car goes in wet (a seldom ocassion).

Keeps dust off too, and the odd small ltem that falls from a nearby shelf.


Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557060
31/01/19 11:01 PM
31/01/19 11:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 132
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Many years ago I recall advice in a motoring journal that a car port was better than a garage as it allowed air to circulate.


Tom
2018 Plus 4
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557102
01/02/19 09:05 AM
01/02/19 09:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 67
Thatcham
T
Tresco Offline
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Thatcham
Would be nice to have a garage but ours is outside and in the winter is in one of these https://www.autopyjama.com/permabag-engl/cars/ which keeps it around 60% humidity and comes out looking as good as it went in and from September last year it is also under one of these https://rolloutcovers.co.uk so now has double protection.


Ian

70th Anniversary 4/4 Edition (1976)
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Tresco] #557117
01/02/19 10:04 AM
01/02/19 10:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 236
Vienna, Austria
Michael P Offline
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Vienna, Austria
The relative air humidity is very strongly dependent on the temperature.

100% r.h. at 0°C corresponds to approx.
70% at 5°C,
50% at 10°C and
35% at 15°C.

For details see here.
Unfortunately, I did not find a diagram with English lettering blush (simply search for Mollier diagram or h-x diagram).

The diagram is a bit confusing at first glance.
If you want to know which humidity at a certain temperature corresponds to the value at another temperature, simply proceed as follows:
In the graph, find the intersection of the initial temperature (red line) and the initial humidity (blue line) and then go down or up along the vertical (gray) line to the desired target temperature. From this intersection, follow the blue line > target humidity.

This diagram also shows when air of a certain temperature and humidity condenses during cooling. Simply follow the grey line down to the intersection of the blue line for 100% humidity.

I would try to avoid a relative humidity above 70%. Good ventilation is usually sufficient.

Dehumidifying air is a fairly energy-intensive process. If you decide to dehumidify the air, you should make sure that the room to be dehumidified is well sealed - otherwise you dehumidify the ambient air wink


Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Esprit] #557122
01/02/19 10:18 AM
01/02/19 10:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,273
Llanelli
Ray Offline
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Llanelli
Originally Posted By Esprit
Many years ago I recall advice in a motoring journal that a car port was better than a garage as it allowed air to circulate.
. My cars live in an older metal roofed garage with plenty of drafts.does not seem to have an averse effect on them, exept for some condensation drips in cold weather. Biggest problem is warming it enough to work in winter even with a pot belly stove.


.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Ray] #557129
01/02/19 10:42 AM
01/02/19 10:42 AM
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Posts: 266
Massachusetts, USA
JCK Offline
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Massachusetts, USA
I keep my car in Massachusetts where summer.rs are hot and humid and winters extremely cold and dry. I don't drive the Morgan in winter because of the cold and the salt and other c**p on the roads. I rent a garage because I don't have one at home. Last year's garage let water in frequently but wasn't ventilated. This year's is concrete, dry, and extremely well ventilated. I am much more relaxed.


JCK
1960 Plus 4 Roadster
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557151
01/02/19 11:38 AM
01/02/19 11:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,524
Surrey. UK
Neilda Offline
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Surrey. UK
My cars live in an oak barn - which suffers from less condensation than brick built garages I've had in the past. I run a dehumidifier... a £200 thing I bought years ago and it's permanently on. I've no idea if it's effective, but I have no rust on tools or cars.

I am told that heating a garage is a bad idea as that does promote condensation.


+8 4.8
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Craig Jezz] #557175
01/02/19 01:08 PM
01/02/19 01:08 PM
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Posts: 236
Vienna, Austria
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Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Outside temp 0
Garage temp 38 F
Garage humidity 69%

dewpoint is 29 (going on the online calculator)

Looking at the graph below, I’m within the recommended storage area.

Have I worked this out correctly ?

It's correct. At a relative humidity of 69% at 38°F, the dew point is 29°F (the outside temperature is irrelevant for the calculation). According to the graph this is in the recommended range.


Michael
2018 Plus 4 Sport
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Craig Jezz] #557180
01/02/19 01:22 PM
01/02/19 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By PHZI
Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!


No problem at all if you want to keep your Morgan outside.


Inside my garage actually.

Re: Garage Humidity [Re: PHZI] #557190
01/02/19 01:47 PM
01/02/19 01:47 PM
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Posts: 977
Oxon
Craig Jezz Offline
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Originally Posted By PHZI
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By PHZI
Is it me?
Non insulated garage, no floor tiles, no dehumidifier. Cover my cars with breathable outdoor cover. No problem!


No problem at all if you want to keep your Morgan outside.


Inside my garage actually.


Now that is a good idea 👍


Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Craig Jezz] #557251
01/02/19 04:49 PM
01/02/19 04:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 283
North Somerset, UK
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Deejay Offline
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North Somerset, UK
Dehumidifier + all gaps sealed up = essential to be effective
Dehumidifier + gaps not sealed = wasting your money
No dehumidifier + gaps sealed up = Inviting condensation to form
No dehumidifier + gaps to allow free flow of air = as good and as cheap as it gets.
As an illustration:
SWMBO insists on closing bedroom windows at night, then wonders why windows are misted up in the morning!!


Doug

2011 +4 in Rich Maroon
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: Deejay] #557256
01/02/19 05:04 PM
01/02/19 05:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,378
Renfrewshire
BobtheTrain Offline
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Originally Posted By Deejay
SWMBO insists on closing bedroom windows at night, then wonders why windows are misted up in the morning!!

Are you sure it's because the windows are shut? blush


Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: IvorMog] #557259
01/02/19 05:10 PM
01/02/19 05:10 PM
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Posts: 792
Staffordshire
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts both scientific and anecdotal.

I suppose with hindsight, I should have recognised that I never get rusty tools in the garage which is effectively part of the house with cavity wall insulation and a room above it.

There is just the slightest gap around the door which I guess helps with the ventilation and I have a modern condensing central heating boiler in there which, whilst well insulated, must give some heat into the garage.

I had to put the car away soaking wet the other day and I noticed that the Mohair hood did dry out completely within 2 - 3 days.

So for the time being I'll spend my money on something else for Mog and I'll use my chisels like taking budgies down the mines in the old days.

If my best wood chisels don't rust (without being oiled) then it can't be too damp.

Last edited by IvorMog; 01/02/19 05:27 PM.

Bob

1999 4/4 1.8 Zetec
Re: Garage Humidity [Re: BobtheTrain] #557325
01/02/19 08:15 PM
01/02/19 08:15 PM
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Posts: 283
North Somerset, UK
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Posts: 283
North Somerset, UK
Originally Posted By BobtheTrain
Originally Posted By Deejay
SWMBO insists on closing bedroom windows at night, then wonders why windows are misted up in the morning!!

Are you sure it's because the windows are shut? blush

Alas, the only heavy breathing nowadays stems from her asthma and my blocked sinuses! 😴


Doug

2011 +4 in Rich Maroon
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