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#558893 - 09/02/19 07:43 PM These models don't come to market too often.
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
I really like these 70th Anniversary models and I think this looks like very good value too.

70th
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#558899 - 09/02/19 08:21 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 14/06/14
Posts: 10473
Loc: Lancashire, England
I agree they are really nice, folding windscreen and nice wheels

Can’t see where it states the mileage so can’t comment on the price
_________________________
2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater

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#558900 - 09/02/19 08:29 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
waikiore Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 23/05/17
Posts: 456
Loc: auckland new zealand
That is a really nice spec and wheels in keeping with the look
_________________________
99 plus 8 indigo

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#558902 - 09/02/19 08:35 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
BobJ Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 03/10/18
Posts: 63
Loc: Buckinghamshire
12.5k miles on Allon Whites website. Lovely looking car.
_________________________
2017 4/4 80th Anniversary

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#558914 - 09/02/19 09:58 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Northernmorgan Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 22/12/18
Posts: 263
Loc: Northern England
Love that edition of the 4/4 especially with the steel wheels and folding screen. Not sure about the painted dash on that one though.
_________________________
John
1936 Austin Seven Ulster Replica

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#558916 - 09/02/19 10:16 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Tresco Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 13/11/16
Posts: 66
Loc: Thatcham
I love our 70th Anniversary and ours is black and the dash looks good in black but the colour of that car looks lovely but not sure about the dash.
_________________________
Ian

70th Anniversary 4/4 Edition (1976)

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#558919 - 09/02/19 10:35 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Hi Everyone,

Nice car

I do like the matching red seat belt receivers. I have one red and one a funny shade of orange.

Also, the driver's door check strap has allthread screws and the other door shanked woodscrews.

Just how do they do this ?
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#558922 - 09/02/19 10:52 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: SALMO]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Geof - I have no explanation for the anomalies other than a rather lame it's a hand built Morgan Sir routine wink

You are lucky owning one of these models in my view they are the most desirable of all the Anniversary one's they have produced with some really nice features. I could quite easily be persuaded to change my Plus 8 for one of these.

Enjoy your miles.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#558932 - 10/02/19 12:18 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Hi Richard,

That's really complimentary and I'm sure 70th Anniversary owners will appreciate the comments.

My wife thinks I'm mad but I think, secretly, she likes the car more than she likes me!
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#558933 - 10/02/19 01:51 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
pete757 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 03/12/18
Posts: 101
That looks lovely :>)

Seems cheap for a very limited edition... should be snapped up!

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#558935 - 10/02/19 03:42 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
If I didn't have my beautiful 4/4, and I personalized it technically very well, then such a 70th anniversary LHD would be the car of my choice.
I don't think most new Morgan enthusiasts have any idea how lovingly this series was made.

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#558950 - 10/02/19 09:00 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
rainbowj Offline

Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 10/07/12
Posts: 1379
Loc: Purton, nr Swindon UK
There is a yellow one on Williams website that has a marvellous spec. Been nagging at me all weekend.
_________________________
John
1992 plus4 connaught green

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#558953 - 10/02/19 09:10 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Northernmorgan Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 22/12/18
Posts: 263
Loc: Northern England
If I hadn’t got my latest toy taking up garage space I’d be seriously tempted back to the Morgan fold.
_________________________
John
1936 Austin Seven Ulster Replica

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#558976 - 10/02/19 10:29 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: rainbowj]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By rainbowj
There is a yellow one on Williams website that has a marvellous spec. Been nagging at me all weekend.



That is a big spec car - I'm not a bit surprised you being tempted there thumbs
70th yellow

_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#558987 - 10/02/19 10:52 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
TBM Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 06/11/18
Posts: 429
Loc: Northants, UK
I wonder what wheels they used? They are the same style as my '72, but look much wider.
_________________________
1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes

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#558998 - 10/02/19 11:27 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: TBM]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By TBM
I wonder what wheels they used? They are the same style as my '72, but look much wider.


I'm pretty sure they were 15" X 6.0" J rims on the one's I have seen and they look to be the Dunlop pattern wheels. I have never seen one with wire wheels.

Full spec on the model. 70th full spec
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559000 - 10/02/19 11:38 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Budster Offline

Talk Morgan Sage

Registered: 07/08/11
Posts: 6342
Loc: Devon
From memory, there were two cars built to represent each of the (then) 70 years of production.
So each ‘year’ differed in detail specification.
No all had the solid wheels, but all carried a plaque on the dash’ to signify the year.
They also had the 1.8 Duratec engine, rather than the 1.8 Zetec. To me the Duratec feels more linear, but with less torque.
Very nice.
_________________________
Bud
4/4 "Stanley"

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#559011 - 10/02/19 01:07 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Hi Everyone

6j x 15 steel wheels. But, my 1995 model was able to have wires as an option, which I took.

The Williams car is a little different to mine......
Head rests....I have the boxy ones.
Piping....not on options list
Wings....mine are narrow body, the piccies seem to show wide(r).

I'll try to post a piccie of mine later
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#559012 - 10/02/19 01:09 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Paul F Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/08/10
Posts: 2284
Loc: Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By rainbowj
There is a yellow one on Williams website that has a marvellous spec. Been nagging at me all weekend.



That is a big spec car - I'm not a bit surprised you being tempted there thumbs
70th yellow



That is a good car - I know that it has been very much loved.
_________________________
Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 4
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross

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#559013 - 10/02/19 01:09 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Oh, and Continental tyres all round
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

Top
#559018 - 10/02/19 02:11 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: SALMO]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Originally Posted By SALMO
Oh, and Continental tyres all round


The yellow one shows Pirelli P6000 185/70/15. In this case I would prefer the metalic blue car. TBH also because I like the standard suspension/ original condition. BTW the yellow 4/4 could need new leaf springs when you see the pic from straight behind.

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#559019 - 10/02/19 02:13 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: SALMO]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By SALMO
Hi Everyone

6j x 15 steel wheels. But, my 1995 model was able to have wires as an option, which I took.

The Williams car is a little different to mine......
Head rests....I have the boxy ones.
Piping....not on options list
Wings....mine are narrow body, the piccies seem to show wide(r).

I'll try to post a piccie of mine later



Geof, that's a new one to me I've never seen one and it wasn't until I read the full spec through just now that I realised they were available at the time. Looking forward to a picture of yours sometime.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#559021 - 10/02/19 02:15 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Paul F]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Paul F
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By rainbowj
There is a yellow one on Williams website that has a marvellous spec. Been nagging at me all weekend.



That is a big spec car - I'm not a bit surprised you being tempted there thumbs
70th yellow



That is a good car - I know that it has been very much loved.



A personal recommendation is as good as it gets Paul thumbs.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#559026 - 10/02/19 02:39 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: pete757]
PaulJ Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 16/10/11
Posts: 3253
Loc: Somerset, UK
Originally Posted By pete757
That looks lovely :>)

Seems cheap for a very limited edition... should be snapped up!


This sort of raises the question of whether limited edition Morgans depreciate slower than 'standard' models. Given that the factory are always looking for an excuse to make a run of 'Limited Edition' cars?
_________________________
Paul
[Beginning to get the best out of the ARP4]

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#559042 - 10/02/19 04:04 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: PaulJ]
deano Offline

Charter Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 5330
Loc: Taunton
Originally Posted By PaulJ
Originally Posted By pete757
That looks lovely :>)

Seems cheap for a very limited edition... should be snapped up!


This sort of raises the question of whether limited edition Morgans depreciate slower than 'standard' models.


That's certainly the case with other well known sports car brands.
_________________________
Martin (Deano)

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#559166 - 11/02/19 12:49 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
pete757 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 03/12/18
Posts: 101
Like LOTUS!! rofl

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#559206 - 11/02/19 05:14 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: PaulJ]
Gambalunga Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 11129
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted By PaulJ
Originally Posted By pete757
That looks lovely :>)

Seems cheap for a very limited edition... should be snapped up!


This sort of raises the question of whether limited edition Morgans depreciate slower than 'standard' models. Given that the factory are always looking for an excuse to make a run of 'Limited Edition' cars?

Most Morgans are a limited edition of "1 of 1" aren't they? I know mine is innocent
_________________________
Peter


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#559220 - 11/02/19 06:01 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Gambalunga]
Paul F Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 20/08/10
Posts: 2284
Loc: Costock, South Nottinghamshire...
Originally Posted By Gambalunga

Most Morgans are a limited edition of "1 of 1" aren't they? I know mine is innocent


+1
_________________________
Paul
Costock, UK
2014 4/4 Rolls Royce Garnet Red
Disco 4
Teddy - 17h1 Irish Draught cross

Top
#559235 - 11/02/19 06:42 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Gambalunga]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 11218
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By Gambalunga

Most Morgans are a limited edition of "1 of 1" aren't they? I know mine is innocent


Very much so, Tarka certainly is as it was specified by the Sales Department at MMC for use as a demonstrator.

Also, Morgans are maintained without regard to cost or logic!!
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



Top
#559237 - 11/02/19 07:09 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Peter J]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Very true, both Peter's and Paul that is thumbs
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#559239 - 11/02/19 07:22 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 892
Loc: Oxon
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Geof - I have no explanation for the anomalies other than a rather lame it's a hand built Morgan Sir routine wink

You are lucky owning one of these models in my view they are the most desirable of all the Anniversary one's they have produced with some really nice features. I could quite easily be persuaded to change my Plus 8 for one of these.

Enjoy your miles.


Go on Rich, you know you want to ?


Edited by Craig Jezz (11/02/19 07:22 PM)
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#559240 - 11/02/19 07:29 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Craig Jezz]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Geof - I have no explanation for the anomalies other than a rather lame it's a hand built Morgan Sir routine wink

You are lucky owning one of these models in my view they are the most desirable of all the Anniversary one's they have produced with some really nice features. I could quite easily be persuaded to change my Plus 8 for one of these.

Enjoy your miles.


Go on Rich, you know you want to ?


Oh don't start Craig it would be all too easy - I keep telling myself I don't like metallic colours banghead
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#559242 - 11/02/19 07:42 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 892
Loc: Oxon
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Geof - I have no explanation for the anomalies other than a rather lame it's a hand built Morgan Sir routine wink

You are lucky owning one of these models in my view they are the most desirable of all the Anniversary one's they have produced with some really nice features. I could quite easily be persuaded to change my Plus 8 for one of these.

Enjoy your miles.


Go on Rich, you know you want to ?




Oh don't start Craig it would be all too easy - I keep telling myself I don't like metallic colours banghead


How about this one Rich, I know it’s not a 70th, but seems rather special and has the 1.8 z-Tec ?

https://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/dealer/kr...condition-2008/
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

Top
#559274 - 11/02/19 10:16 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Craig Jezz]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Geof - I have no explanation for the anomalies other than a rather lame it's a hand built Morgan Sir routine wink

You are lucky owning one of these models in my view they are the most desirable of all the Anniversary one's they have produced with some really nice features. I could quite easily be persuaded to change my Plus 8 for one of these.

Enjoy your miles.


Go on Rich, you know you want to ?




Oh don't start Craig it would be all too easy - I keep telling myself I don't like metallic colours banghead


How about this one Rich, I know it’s not a 70th, but seems rather special and has the 1.8 z-Tec ?

https://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/dealer/kr...condition-2008/






That's a beauty and one of my favourite colors Craig - get behind me Satan wink
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#559278 - 11/02/19 10:45 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
A stunning car, Z-TecRich smile

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#559279 - 11/02/19 11:02 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Heinz]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Heinz
A stunning car, Z-TecRich smile


It is a beauty and just my colour and size Heinz wink

This is the one I just missed last year due to my intransigence.



_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#559281 - 11/02/19 11:18 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
That's why I'm anticipating your change of name on the forum, Richard. Or perhaps Rich4/4BRG.
Nobody should ever say it's a poverty model again.

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#559282 - 11/02/19 11:24 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Heinz]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
I certainly would never rule it out Heinz - that BRG 70th pressed all the right buttons but I hesitated too long banghead

Whoever said that was not really thinking about what they were saying I think, I remember it coming up but it was a long time ago and I believe Budster thoroughly enjoys showing them a clean pair of heels on the open road so he had the last laugh.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






Top
#559286 - 11/02/19 11:36 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Craig Jezz]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4208
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Geof - I have no explanation for the anomalies other than a rather lame it's a hand built Morgan Sir routine wink

You are lucky owning one of these models in my view they are the most desirable of all the Anniversary one's they have produced with some really nice features. I could quite easily be persuaded to change my Plus 8 for one of these.

Enjoy your miles.


Go on Rich, you know you want to ?
. Rich, remember you won't get the same rumble. I still miss it....PS exept when I pass a petrol station.
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#559287 - 11/02/19 11:36 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Ray]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Ray
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Geof - I have no explanation for the anomalies other than a rather lame it's a hand built Morgan Sir routine wink

You are lucky owning one of these models in my view they are the most desirable of all the Anniversary one's they have produced with some really nice features. I could quite easily be persuaded to change my Plus 8 for one of these.

Enjoy your miles.
Rich, don't forget you won't have the same rumble. I still miss it....PS exept when I PASS a petrol station.

Go on Rich, you know you want to ?


If I am perfectly honest Ray that is exactly what holds me back as the 4/4 Sport was the filling in my Morgan sandwich in ownership and I did miss the rumble but not the 23/44mpg difference laugh2 it was more than compensated for in it's litheness, revability and ease of chucking it around corners at speed.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559291 - 12/02/19 12:09 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
We still have the 450SL which shall be sold this spring. When I’m perfectly honest, the rumble, and she has a nice exhaust which amplifies the rumble but in a civilized manner, can become too much from time to time. It's great to be starting up, but on a longer tour I don't like knocking anymore.
The 4/4 has never got on my nerves. The six cylinder in-line engine of the 1968 blue Mercedes 230 is a work of poetry.

I have never driven a 4/4 1.8, but I can imagine that it fits perfectly to the car. And as you can see everywhere, it is enormously upgradable. Since it is a modular system, can you combine such a 1.8 4/4 with a Mazda gearbox, without too much effort?

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#559294 - 12/02/19 01:05 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Originally Posted By +8Rich
I certainly would never rule it out Heinz - that BRG 70th pressed all the right buttons but I hesitated too long banghead

Whoever said that was not really thinking about what they were saying I think, I remember it coming up but it was a long time ago and I believe Budster thoroughly enjoys showing them a clean pair of heels on the open road so he had the last laugh.


Yes, I understand. I only quoted it because Budster repeated a joke from it more often, and that's why the "poverty model" has now become a running gag. We all know how cool a 4/4 is.

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#559295 - 12/02/19 01:13 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
pete757 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 03/12/18
Posts: 101
Looks like a lovely example.

Am I imagining this... Looking at the top of the windscreen, it is perfectly parallel to the top of the image (photo border) edge... but then the left hand front wing looks lower than the right hand side, the car looks 'twisted' to the left... it's not parallel to the bottom of the image (photo border) edge?

The grill does not seem vertical either?

(Yes, the angled Krazy Horse number plate makes this seem worse)




Top
#559296 - 12/02/19 02:03 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: pete757]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Originally Posted By pete757
Looks like a lovely example.

Am I imagining this... Looking at the top of the windscreen, it is perfectly parallel to the top of the image (photo border) edge... but then the left hand front wing looks lower than the right hand side, the car looks 'twisted' to the left... it's not parallel to the bottom of the image (photo border) edge?

The grill does not seem vertical either?

(Yes, the angled Krazy Horse number plate makes this seem worse)





Believe me, she is one of the better units. If you look too long at a Morgan you will discover always some confusing angles. It is the „proof“ they are handmade and individual.
Here you can see my car before and after a wildlife accident. I ever was happy with her as is (was). But my garage needed to install a new wing at the left side (viewing from the front). Because they had the time the result is somehow better than the original production. Look at the different height of the indicator on the original (the orange ones). But they do it in Malvern with feeling, so it's true as a whole.
http://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/505312/5
But so what...

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#559319 - 12/02/19 09:19 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
pete757 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 03/12/18
Posts: 101
Interesting!

I also have a Landrover Defender... all the rivets and spot welds are in slightly different positions!

Love hand-built cars wink

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#559322 - 12/02/19 10:09 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: pete757]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By pete757
Looks like a lovely example.

Am I imagining this... Looking at the top of the windscreen, it is perfectly parallel to the top of the image (photo border) edge... but then the left hand front wing looks lower than the right hand side, the car looks 'twisted' to the left... it's not parallel to the bottom of the image (photo border) edge?

The grill does not seem vertical either?

(Yes, the angled Krazy Horse number plate makes this seem worse)





You are absolutely right, the stick on number plate was what drew my eye to the out of true. The other points you noted I had missed such is the mystique of the brand.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559345 - 12/02/19 11:41 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Hi Richard,

Here's a couple of piccies of my car which has paint protection film. Hope it temps you though I rather like the +8 myself.

Note the third piccie of the grill and headlamps and the distance from cowl to headlamp unit. Compare this to the Williams and Allon White cars. The distance is far greater on their cars.

I believe that wire wheel cars had their wings trimmed back though I fail to understand why given my track dimension is exactly as specified.

For reference the distance between headlamp centres is 30".

If any other owners have a view I would be interested














_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#559359 - 12/02/19 01:25 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: SALMO]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Geof

Thanks for posting your machine she is a beauty and I can see exactly what you mean about the front wings. Just a thought although the steel wheels are 6" maybe it is the offset that makes it necessary to widen the wings on those models, I am assuming yours has 5.5"wires here. Certainly a first for me seeing a 70th on wires.

She looks brand new clap thumbs
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559378 - 12/02/19 03:26 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: SALMO]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 11218
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By SALMO

For reference the distance between headlamp centres is 30".


And the distance between the headlamp centres on the Aero +8 is 40"!!
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#559414 - 12/02/19 06:37 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Geof, you have a very nice Mog!

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#559415 - 12/02/19 06:39 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 892
Loc: Oxon
Geof, that is one lovely looking Mog 👍
_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#559417 - 12/02/19 06:43 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
I love it that the 1.8 4/4 has the older rear axle which is a tad narrower. So the back of the car looks more in line than the todays 4/4 with the relatively wide wings at the rear. The opposite happens at the front, the current 4/4 looks narrower than the 1.8 4/4. Both effects add and therefore the older 1.8 looks more balanced vs. the current 4/4 which looks more trapezoidal.

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#559418 - 12/02/19 06:44 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Heinz]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Heinz
We still have the 450SL which shall be sold this spring. When I’m perfectly honest, the rumble, and she has a nice exhaust which amplifies the rumble but in a civilized manner, can become too much from time to time. It's great to be starting up, but on a longer tour I don't like knocking anymore.
The 4/4 has never got on my nerves. The six cylinder in-line engine of the 1968 blue Mercedes 230 is a work of poetry.

I have never driven a 4/4 1.8, but I can imagine that it fits perfectly to the car. And as you can see everywhere, it is enormously upgradable. Since it is a modular system, can you combine such a 1.8 4/4 with a Mazda gearbox, without too much effort?


I have never driven a 1.8 4/4 either Heinz and that is a very good point about swapping out the Ford box for a Mazda which could only improve things I would have thought.


You will miss that 450 rumble wink
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559432 - 12/02/19 07:25 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4208
Loc: Llanelli
I now have a 4/4 1.8. the biggest gripe I have is the mid range lack of torque. Fifth gear is no more than an overdrive. Keep the revs singing and gears three and four are majic. Quickly reaches the Rev cut off at 7000. Don't think you get an extra Rev ( bloody electronics ). Probably my problem is stepping down from a +8 .but the car is still a joy to drive with it's light weight steering.


Edited by Ray (12/02/19 07:27 PM)
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#559435 - 12/02/19 07:31 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Rog Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 31/05/12
Posts: 862
Loc: Sumerset
I quite like my Ford box other than the stick is a bit high. I must have the one good one smile

The first free mod to do with the 1.8 Duratec is to whip the restrictor off the throttle body woohoo
_________________________
Roger
2006 4/4 Duratec

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#559436 - 12/02/19 07:34 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Ray]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Really appreciating your opinions here Ray as I wrestle a possible change decision.

It's the soundtrack and endless torque that win it for me, I can cope with 23mpg through my retirement years it's all about the fun you have not the length of run laugh2
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559447 - 12/02/19 08:10 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Rog]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Originally Posted By Rog
I quite like my Ford box other than the stick is a bit high. I must have the one good one smile

The first free mod to do with the 1.8 Duratec is to whip the restrictor off the throttle body woohoo


Others here have got more than 180 HP out of this engine without using TBs. I‘m confident you could enhance the performance. I like mods like to free the TB of restrictions because it is just a Ford intervention to save the hierarchy of models and nothing more.

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#559454 - 12/02/19 08:19 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4208
Loc: Llanelli
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Really appreciating your opinions here Ray as I wrestle a possible change decision.

It's the soundtrack and endless torque that win it for me, I can cope with 23mpg through my retirement years it's all about the fun you have not the length of run laugh2
. Difficult choice, mine was sort of forced on me when the clutch started to slip.... couldn't face taking another Morgan engine out.
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#559465 - 12/02/19 09:07 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By Heinz
We still have the 450SL which shall be sold this spring. When I’m perfectly honest, the rumble, and she has a nice exhaust which amplifies the rumble but in a civilized manner, can become too much from time to time. It's great to be starting up, but on a longer tour I don't like knocking anymore.
The 4/4 has never got on my nerves. The six cylinder in-line engine of the 1968 blue Mercedes 230 is a work of poetry.

I have never driven a 4/4 1.8, but I can imagine that it fits perfectly to the car. And as you can see everywhere, it is enormously upgradable. Since it is a modular system, can you combine such a 1.8 4/4 with a Mazda gearbox, without too much effort?


I have never driven a 1.8 4/4 either Heinz and that is a very good point about swapping out the Ford box for a Mazda which could only improve things I would have thought.


You will miss that 450 rumble wink


I'm not so spoiled it has to be the Mazda gears. My Roadster series 2 and 3 also had a Ford Transit circuit and I thought it was ok. Rustic and fitting to the Morgan. Only, the ratio of the gears was not the best.

I also don't know if the 1.8 4/4 had a different Ford gear box than the early Sigma 4/4. I would only be interested in the gear ratio matching the car. And in this respect the Mazda Box is super good.

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#559473 - 12/02/19 09:52 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Heinz]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Heinz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By Heinz
We still have the 450SL which shall be sold this spring. When I’m perfectly honest, the rumble, and she has a nice exhaust which amplifies the rumble but in a civilized manner, can become too much from time to time. It's great to be starting up, but on a longer tour I don't like knocking anymore.
The 4/4 has never got on my nerves. The six cylinder in-line engine of the 1968 blue Mercedes 230 is a work of poetry.

I have never driven a 4/4 1.8, but I can imagine that it fits perfectly to the car. And as you can see everywhere, it is enormously upgradable. Since it is a modular system, can you combine such a 1.8 4/4 with a Mazda gearbox, without too much effort?


I have never driven a 1.8 4/4 either Heinz and that is a very good point about swapping out the Ford box for a Mazda which could only improve things I would have thought.


You will miss that 450 rumble wink


I'm not so spoiled it has to be the Mazda gears. My Roadster series 2 and 3 also had a Ford Transit circuit and I thought it was ok. Rustic and fitting to the Morgan. Only, the ratio of the gears was not the best.

I also don't know if the 1.8 4/4 had a different Ford gear box than the early Sigma 4/4. I would only be interested in the gear ratio matching the car. And in this respect the Mazda Box is super good.




Interesting, the Ford gearbox in the Sport was fine after about 3,000 miles although the ratios were totally wrong for the power unit, I haven't driven a Morgan with the Mazda box but certainly the MX5 box is smooth.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559476 - 12/02/19 09:58 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Try a newer 4/4 with the Mazda box, Richard, just because of the experience of the well matching ratios. It should be possible at a dealers site. Since my 4/4 has about 150HP I am glad I could not swap for a 4.1 diff ratio, which I wanted first. The swap was only possible when you have the slightly older Salisbury axle. Not any longer regarding the BTR axle.

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#559481 - 12/02/19 10:14 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Heinz]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
That's a thing I need to do sometime to compare my memory of the Sport from 2009, good advice Heinz. My memory tells me no need at all for 1st or 5th gear in the Ford box and 3rd is your friend.
I hadn't realised that the BTR axles limited you in choice of ratio either.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559482 - 12/02/19 10:20 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
It was when I wanted to swap the diff two years ago first. Techniques and Williams told me that it is not possible but you need a whole new BTR axle with another ratio which is ridiculous expensive. Now I am glad I kept the longer diff regarding the added power.

Somehow the lightweight offers a similar feel when accelerating in mid rev than a V8 delivers it in a heavier car.

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#559544 - 13/02/19 09:44 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
nick w Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 31/03/09
Posts: 2019
I had a 1.8 4/4 before my roadster. I always felt the gearbox was fighting the engine. For me, there was a mismatch between ratio and torque curve. After about 7 years of the roadster I was missing the flingability of a 4/4 (it's all in the mind really, I probably just wanted a change) and because I love the narrow look I tried a new 1.6 4/4. This had the ford box. I found it lacking in the same way as my 1.8 had been. When the 1.6 was given the mazda box I tried one and fell in love immediately. For me that mazda box and that 1.6 engine are a match made in heaven. It all just mates together in a wonderful way. I suppose the thin tyres help too. So, anyway, that's what I have today. It's certainly more tiring on a long run than the roadster or a plus 8 , Richard, but for the use I give it, rarely driving for more than an hour or so, it's a perfect fun animal.
Nick


Edited by nick w (13/02/19 10:21 AM)

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#559552 - 13/02/19 10:45 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 892
Loc: Oxon
To make the Mazda box feel even better with a 4/4 Sigma, then reduce the stick shift by approx. 20mm. Feels even better IMO

Cheap mod too smile

_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#559553 - 13/02/19 10:48 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 892
Loc: Oxon
looks better too


_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#559562 - 13/02/19 11:47 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: nick w]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By nick w
I had a 1.8 4/4 before my roadster. I always felt the gearbox was fighting the engine. For me, there was a mismatch between ratio and torque curve. After about 7 years of the roadster I was missing the flingability of a 4/4 (it's all in the mind really, I probably just wanted a change) and because I love the narrow look I tried a new 1.6 4/4. This had the ford box. I found it lacking in the same way as my 1.8 had been. When the 1.6 was given the mazda box I tried one and fell in love immediately. For me that mazda box and that 1.6 engine are a match made in heaven. It all just mates together in a wonderful way. I suppose the thin tyres help too. So, anyway, that's what I have today. It's certainly more tiring on a long run than the roadster or a plus 8 , Richard, but for the use I give it, rarely driving for more than an hour or so, it's a perfect fun animal.
Nick


Thanks Nick it definitely looks as if I need to try a current 4/4 out.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559568 - 13/02/19 12:10 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Craig Jezz]
pete757 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 03/12/18
Posts: 101
Originally Posted By Craig Jezz
To make the Mazda box feel even better with a 4/4 Sigma, then reduce the stick shift by approx. 20mm. Feels even better IMO

Cheap mod too smile



That gear knob looks great... simple.

Where did you get it from please?

Cheers, Pete.

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#559571 - 13/02/19 12:44 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Craig Jezz Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 27/03/17
Posts: 892
Loc: Oxon
I purchased it from Halfords Pete. £19.99

It’s comes with a combination of sleeves, so it’s easy to fit too



_________________________
Craig Jezz

Morgan 4/4 Sports Sand (Williams & Wolf Tuned)

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#559584 - 13/02/19 02:49 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Craig Jezz]
pete757 Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 03/12/18
Posts: 101
Cheers!

Bloody good from the H Frauds I think! smile

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#559678 - 13/02/19 10:40 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By Heinz
Originally Posted By +8Rich
Originally Posted By Heinz
We still have the 450SL which shall be sold this spring. When I’m perfectly honest, the rumble, and she has a nice exhaust which amplifies the rumble but in a civilized manner, can become too much from time to time. It's great to be starting up, but on a longer tour I don't like knocking anymore.
The 4/4 has never got on my nerves. The six cylinder in-line engine of the 1968 blue Mercedes 230 is a work of poetry.

I have never driven a 4/4 1.8, but I can imagine that it fits perfectly to the car. And as you can see everywhere, it is enormously upgradable. Since it is a modular system, can you combine such a 1.8 4/4 with a Mazda gearbox, without too much effort?


I have never driven a 1.8 4/4 either Heinz and that is a very good point about swapping out the Ford box for a Mazda which could only improve things I would have thought.


You will miss that 450 rumble wink


I'm not so spoiled it has to be the Mazda gears. My Roadster series 2 and 3 also had a Ford Transit circuit and I thought it was ok. Rustic and fitting to the Morgan. Only, the ratio of the gears was not the best.

I also don't know if the 1.8 4/4 had a different Ford gear box than the early Sigma 4/4. I would only be interested in the gear ratio matching the car. And in this respect the Mazda Box is super good.




Interesting, the Ford gearbox in the Sport was fine after about 3,000 miles although the ratios were totally wrong for the power unit, I haven't driven a Morgan with the Mazda box but certainly the MX5 box is smooth.


Hi Guys,

Like Rog I, too, find the Ford box ok though a bit "notchy" at times.

I don't know how my ratios compare with other cars but they are:-

Final Drive 3.73.1

1st 3.61
2nd 2.08
3r 1.36
4th 1.00
5th 0.76

Hope this helps in any deliberations


Edited by SALMO (13/02/19 10:47 PM)
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#559680 - 13/02/19 11:02 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Thanks Geof. Here are the Mazda ratios regarding the 5 gear box which the Morgan uses now. So we can compare.


Top
#559681 - 13/02/19 11:12 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
So one could say that regarding the Ford box, 3rd and fourth are almost identical with the Mazda box. First and Second are „longer“ at the Mazda box which means that the light 4/4 can make use of it in a positive way. 5th again is quite long concerning the Ford box which means that even gentle hills ask for shifting down to fourth.
This explains perhaps why +8Rich says he felt so well with his 4/4Sport when using third gear.

I had the same issue regarding my Roadster series 3. Imagine the satisfying power of that car but a gearbox which matches a van. I also always thought that the Roadster was best drivable in third and fourth gear.

I said yesterday that the 4/4 is good with the standard Mog 3.71 diff ratio at least when you add engine power. But a 3.9 diff could make her a tad more vivid, even if I have nothing to complain as it is.

As you can see in the chart the Mazda MX5 combines the box with a 4.1 or 4.3 diif ratio...plus the wheels are smaller in diameter. My son has a NA with the same gear box and it is nice to drive.

That makes MX5 vivid, but consider that the 4/4 is about 100 Kg lighter, so a slightly longer diff is not too wrong. I like it that on a highway the car feels relaxed but on a B road she is nimble and vivid enough even when using the 3,71 diff.

Or to say it in other words, the MX5 gear box with a 3.71 diff is even „longer““ in comparison to a Ford box in 1st and 2nd at lower gears especially when the Ford box is combined with a 4.1 diff. But that is a good thing regarding the Mazda box because you can accelerate up to 55 km in first and up to105 km in second. This way you can make use of the lightweight. And the 5th is „shorter“ in comparison to the Ford box which means you must not shift down at gentle hills when you have about 130 HP or more.
If you want to use a shorter diff ratio, the Mazda box overall is a good choice not making first and second too short at all.

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#559685 - 14/02/19 01:08 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: Heinz]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Originally Posted By Heinz
So one could say that regarding the Ford box, 3rd and fourth are almost identical with the Mazda box. First and Second are „longer“ at the Mazda box which means that the light 4/4 can make use of it in a positive way. 5th again is quite long concerning the Ford box which means that even gentle hills ask for shifting down to fourth.
This explains perhaps why +8Rich says he felt so well with his 4/4Sport when using third gear.

I had the same issue regarding my Roadster series 3. Imagine the satisfying power of that car but a gearbox which matches a van. I also always thought that the Roadster was best drivable in third and fourth gear.

I said yesterday that the 4/4 is good with the standard Mog 3.71 diff ratio at least when you add engine power. But a 3.9 diff could make her a tad more vivid, even if I have nothing to complain as it is.

As you can see in the chart the Mazda MX5 combines the box with a 4.1 or 4.3 diif ratio...plus the wheels are smaller in diameter. My son has a NA with the same gear box and it is nice to drive.

That makes MX5 vivid, but consider that the 4/4 is about 100 Kg lighter, so a slightly longer diff is not too wrong. I like it that on a highway the car feels relaxed but on a B road she is nimble and vivid enough even when using the 3,71 diff.

Or to say it in other words, the MX5 gear box with a 3.71 diff is even „longer““ in comparison to a Ford box in 1st and 2nd at lower gears especially when the Ford box is combined with a 4.1 diff. But that is a good thing regarding the Mazda box because you can accelerate up to 55 km in first and up to105 km in second. This way you can make use of the lightweight. And the 5th is „shorter“ in comparison to the Ford box which means you must not shift down at gentle hills when you have about 130 HP or more.
If you want to use a shorter diff ratio, the Mazda box overall is a good choice not making first and second too short at all.


Hi Heinz,

I'm going to be very careful here since I am entering areas of no expertise. But computing my ratios and yours I get the following overall ratios:-

Duratec 1.8 (3.73 diff)
1st 13.47
2nd 7.76
3rd 5.07
4th 3.73
5th 2.83

4/4 Mazda (3.71 diff)
1st 11.63
2nd 7.00
3rd 4.93
4th 3.71
5th 3.02


Consequently, the last three paragraphs of your post seems to be confirmed and other contributors comments would seem to be correct that in the context of a more spirited drive then, yes,the Mazda 4/4 would seem to be the box for you.

But, if I am talking complete rubbish please forgive me.






Edited by SALMO (14/02/19 01:47 AM)
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#559689 - 14/02/19 07:56 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Thank you very much for the computing, Geof. BTW I am not 100% sure if the 4/4 now has a 3.71 or a 3.73 diff ratio. I suppose nothing has changed and I just wrongly remembered the number. But that does not change the fundamental considerations as the difference is little.
I am also only a layman, but I would agree with your conclusion, Geof, also from my own experience with different gears in different cars.

The peculiarity of a handmade car from a small factory is that things can happen that a normal driver of a Ford or BMW etc. would not expect. This also means that the purchased part does not have to fit the weight class of the Morgan. There is always a bit of luck involved.

Although there have always been changes in large series, e.g. my 1968 Mercedes 230 was built only 7 months with a 3.92 diff, and then to the end with a 3.69 diff. But the gear gradation of the transmission always fitted well to this model. A large series manufacturer calculates his model exactly and lets calculate accordingly the measures and transmission ratios exactly.

Morgan buys in a comprehensible way what fits at the moment, economically and mechanically. And for the transmission, it depends on which engines are bought from which source, and how much weight the engine dispenser had, and whether it was a passenger car or a heavier SUV, for example.

For this reason it was a very commendable step that Morgan decided to use the Mazda transmission with the development of the Plus4 Supersort 2010/11, and since then it has been installed in all 4 cylinder models. Quite simply because it is a good gearbox (that's Ford's too) and because both cars don't differ too much in the weight class.

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#559695 - 14/02/19 08:54 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
IcePack Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/07/11
Posts: 431
Never did understand why Morgan went for a 3.7? Rear axle ratio with the ford box.
4.1 suites the ford ratios so much better. A lot better drivability & with a re-map of the sigma really negates any more expensive engine up grades.

(I have heard most of the reasons why)(but not really believed)

Salmo your calcs May look interesting using 4.1.


Edited by IcePack (14/02/19 08:55 AM)
_________________________
4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.

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#559701 - 14/02/19 09:38 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19471
Loc: Devonshire
Thanks Geof and Heinz it all creates a clearer view of why the Sigma doesn't suit the Ford ratio box in my view.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559841 - 14/02/19 09:43 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: IcePack]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Originally Posted By IcePack
Never did understand why Morgan went for a 3.7? Rear axle ratio with the ford box.
4.1 suites the ford ratios so much better. A lot better drivability & with a re-map of the sigma really negates any more expensive engine up grades.

(I have heard most of the reasons why)(but not really believed)

Salmo your calcs May look interesting using 4.1.



Hi IcePack

Here are the figures for a Mazda box with a 4.00:1 differential.

Final Drive 4.00:1
1st 12.54
2nd 7.55
3rd 5.32
4th 4.00
5th 3.26


My understanding is the higher the number the better the acceleration but at a cost to high end speed. So, in that case a more “vivid” drive I believe.

So, on paper at least, you can see the relative performance between the gear boxes and diffs.

Caveat, I’m no expert and stand to be corrected.

In truth a (very long) test drive is needed and if the car feels right for your style of diving……it’s right.

As previously said though there are other considerations to be taken into account

Hope this is useful and not misleading
_________________________
Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#559848 - 14/02/19 10:10 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4208
Loc: Llanelli
Probably, trying to stretch the fuel economy to it's limits.
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#559860 - 14/02/19 10:52 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
SALMO Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 15/08/17
Posts: 114
Loc: Mercia, UK
Yes, Ray.

And, of course, more powerful engines can handle lower ratios more easily.

(Having said that I have not looked at engine power outputs for ages)
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Regards

Geof

70th Anniversary 4/4 (Duratec 1.8), model 1995

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#559862 - 14/02/19 11:02 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4208
Loc: Llanelli
The 1.8 duratec is rated at 125 bhp. On paper!
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#559903 - 15/02/19 09:43 AM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
IcePack Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/07/11
Posts: 431
Thank you Salmo. Very interesting. I have to admit on my car 1 st is quite a challenge as when really trying you get to 6000 rpm what feels like almost instantly. The other gears are fine, giving a lively performance. 5th is useable at 40mph and at 70mph indicates only an extra 300 rpm from the original 3.73 diff. The car is also shod with 275/70/R15 which I guess make a small difference too.
Imho just goes to show how each car can be made to suit the driver. All part of the fun of ownership.
_________________________
4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.

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#560009 - 15/02/19 05:03 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 2349
The main difference is that the Ford box was designed for the transit... hence very low ratio first and second... once your into third things begin to even up as most gearboxes have a 1:1 4th.

The Mazda box was designed for the Mx5 - something much closer to the Morgan so unsurprisingly they have a higher 1st and 2nd ratio’s.

That said - both the MX5 and certainly the transit are heavier and the Morgan’s life is likely to have a lower duty cycle of cruising... so the 3.xx rear diff’s are used to in part fix the imperfect ratio issues you have with mainstream gearboxes designed for cars with different weight/usage/torque characteristics.
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#560015 - 15/02/19 05:09 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
cerealsurfer Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 2349
The 2.2:1 1st gear ratio of my 72 4/4 which uses a Quaife QBE15Z gearbox is ideal for the 2lt Zetec it has combined with the 4.1 rear diff. The closer ratio’s i’ve Selected allow much better use of the engine curves either driving at the top end or on the torque curve.

The 2.03:1 and 4.1 diff of my 275bhp 2lt Zetec requires a considerably more aggressive start that makes most people cry in sympathy.... but it does 60+ in first and gets there very very quickly!!
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#560311 - 16/02/19 08:59 PM Re: These models don't come to market too often. [Re: +8Rich]
Heinz Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 3719
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Today was the second day in wonderful weather I drove the nice Eifel area B-roads. Yes, the Mazda gear ratios are fine. But...the axle ratio would be better if it is shorter, 3.9 or 4.1.
And the 5th still would have enough reserve not being too short when driving a motorway.

I wrote that 2 years agor Techniques and Williams told me that I cannot chage the diff concerning the BTR axle but I must buy a whole axle which is too expensive for the fun of it. Does someone have new infos, is it possible in the meantime to change the diff only?

Now, if anyone says, why don't you just downshift to get higher revs? It's not the same thing.
With the shorter rear axle ratio, the lever and thus the added torque is in each gear equally effective and that at all revs.
The fact that the Mazda transmission has the small gears "longer" is all the more advantageous with a shorter rear axle ratio.

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