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#558943 - 10/02/19 08:35 AM Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad
Cineman Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/09
Posts: 88
Loc: Dartmoor
So I've had my S1 Roadster for 8 years now. It's a great car and even though the sump caught a stone last year and all the oil ran out (slowly!) I still love it. But.. as my first and only Morgan now I'm wondering: is this it, or do I "trade-up" to a s/h Plus 8 Trad? Aero's won't fit in my garage, and anyhow they are a little bling for me.. and there seems no point in going to the 3.7 Roadster.
Maybe this one.. but I'd have to change the dashboard, and what can be done with the horrible steering wheel!

http://www.bowkermotorgroup.co.uk/ribble-valley/used-cars/car-details/SP13CBO

For those of you that have driven both - what are your thoughts? Sometimes a change is just a disappointment.. like a couple of members who wrote in regretting selling their Plus 4's and buying a Roadster!

Oliver S.


Edited by Cineman (10/02/19 08:38 AM)

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#558944 - 10/02/19 08:44 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Northernmorgan Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 22/12/18
Posts: 82
Loc: Northern England
Will that fit in your garage? It’s an Aero chassis. Nice looking car though and the dash and steering wheel can be improved on.
_________________________
John
1936 Austin Seven Ulster Replica

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#558951 - 10/02/19 09:03 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Cineman Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/09
Posts: 88
Loc: Dartmoor
Aero 8: (new)
4147mm x 1751mm x 1248mm
Plus 8 (new):
4147mm x 1770mm x 1248mm (Wider than an Aero??)
Roadster:
4010mm x 1540mm x 1120mm

Yes you are right - length seems the same as an Aero 8, and a little wider. Mmm.. better get out the tape measure! Never sure whether to trust these online dimensions..

Thanks!
Oliver.

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#558968 - 10/02/19 10:10 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Richard Wood Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 03/02/16
Posts: 1490
Loc: East Harling, Norfolk UK
I have the latest Roadster as 1720mm wide. The S1 either 1620 or the same 1720mm with optional wheels.

Plus 8 and Aero 1751mm width.
_________________________
Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1967 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom

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#558978 - 10/02/19 10:31 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Cineman Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/09
Posts: 88
Loc: Dartmoor
Thanks Richard - I expect your figures are more accurate..


Edited by Cineman (10/02/19 10:31 AM)
_________________________
Oliver S.

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#558985 - 10/02/19 10:48 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
meabh Offline

Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1846
Loc: southwest France
Cineman

Like a number of Morgan owners I have had a few beginning in '83 with a 4/4 which was replaced in "97 with another and subsequently a Plus 4 in '98. It was only in 2016 that I changed for a S3 Roadster and only then because the French wouldn't allow me an engine swap. The Roadster is a joy as you know but I share your indecision. I have just ordered a 110 P4 because there was something about my old uprated P4 that I miss and I can see that the new P4 might provide a base for development and, because for thirty odd years I have always thought that I would love to be able to order a new car. Still I won't be able to keep both and I actually don't want two cars as I have other interests. I think sometimes that we do need to be careful what we wish for and that change can be disappointing or perhaps, it is the idea of a change that ultimately disappoints. Was it Chesterton who said that he continued to have appetite because he wasn't dead? Maybe that's it. All the best with whatever you choose to do. “Trying to be happy by accumulating possessions is like trying to satisfy hunger by taping sandwiches all over your body. Another apt quote of his.


Edited by meabh (10/02/19 10:49 AM)

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#558997 - 10/02/19 11:15 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
MOG 615 Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 24/09/14
Posts: 1280
Loc: London
Oliver

To go back to your original question "what the differences between a Series 3 Roadster and a Trad +8" , I think you can sum them up in a few words , exhaust note and low down torque.

The exhaust note of the full V8 is melodious and addictive, especially with a Librands (or similar) exhaust system. You will really enjoy driving through tunnels and changing gears "just for the hell of it" . I like the Roadster very much , but another Morgan enthusiast summed the experience up pretty well . "The Roadster sounds like chamber music, the +8 is the full orchestra."

The low down torque is what makes the +8 so relaxing to drive, you can boot it up through the gears if you want to listen to the engine note , or you can leave it in 5th and just surf the torque wave. I guarantee this is the most important difference you will notice while driving.

You will miss the 6 speed gearbox , but really 5 is enough. You may miss the higher revving nature of the V6 as the V8 rarely needs to go above 5,000 rpm. Most other things will be remarkably similar.

The sump is much higher on the +8 , so although you still need to treat speed bumps with respect, they are not quite the heart-in-mouth experience that they are in a Roadster.

You would be going from a newer car to an older one , so make sure that you buy one that has been well cared for and not been hibernating for long periods. As the trad +8 became extinct in 2003/4 most of them should have at least 30k miles, and preferably more.

Other than that it will be a very subjective decision based on personal choice and preferences.

Good luck
_________________________
Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.

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#558999 - 10/02/19 11:35 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4394
Loc: East Anglia
Originally Posted By Cineman
So I've had my S1 Roadster for 8 years now. It's a great car and even though the sump caught a stone last year and all the oil ran out (slowly!) I still love it. But.. as my first and only Morgan now I'm wondering: is this it, or do I "trade-up" to a s/h Plus 8 Trad? Aero's won't fit in my garage, and anyhow they are a little bling for me.. and there seems no point in going to the 3.7 Roadster.
Maybe this one.. but I'd have to change the dashboard, and what can be done with the horrible steering wheel!

http://www.bowkermotorgroup.co.uk/ribble-valley/used-cars/car-details/SP13CBO

For those of you that have driven both - what are your thoughts? Sometimes a change is just a disappointment.. like a couple of members who wrote in regretting selling their Plus 4's and buying a Roadster!

Oliver S.



Oliver , I hate to say it but the only way to answer this question is to test drive the ones you might like and only you will then know the answer. Its not boring doing test drives , you won't regret it.
_________________________
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .



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#559002 - 10/02/19 11:53 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Cineman Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/09
Posts: 88
Loc: Dartmoor
You are so right.. but right now the cars I want to drive are hundreds of miles away.. and this forum is the next best thing! Maybe someone here in Devon has one and I could go over and swop cars!
Thanks for your thoughtful post (Andy G), but I am referring to the Aero +8 trad - my mistake as I don't know what it is officially called!
_________________________
Oliver S.

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#559006 - 10/02/19 12:32 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10931
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Oliver,

I have one, and live near Salisbury. Happy to meet up for a chat and test fit in your garage! PM me if you are interested.

We had an S2 Roadster for 2 years, the Plus 8 since 2014.
Differences... the roadster is a traditional Morgan, with about as much power as any Morgan Trad needs. I consider the 3.7 roadster over powered.
The Aero +8 is essentially a modern car that looks like a traditional Morgan. It is quick, comfortable and an all day GT touring car. It isn't really a classic sports car.
The chassis is able to manage the power, the brakes also. I love it to bits. Ours had covered close to 40,000 miles and in the summer it is a daily drive. I have no intention at all of changing it, though I will try the new whatever it is going to be called.

I agree, the dash is horrid. Changing the dash is possible, but VERY expensive as most, if not all the cars have a drivers airbag in the steering wheel and a passenger airbag where the glove compartment would be. So specialist knowledge and equipment is needed to remove the bags. Once done you can fit what you like. I have the later steering wheel, whilst not perfect it is far better than the horrible thing on the early ones.



The big difference between the Aero Plus 8 and the S3 and S4 Aeros is the weight distribution: the Plus 8 has virtually no weight behind the rear axle line, whereas the Aeros have body work and boot, plus fuel. So the car is more like a front/mid engined car as almost all the weight is between the front and rear axles.

Another noticeable difference is the cabin width, there is a lot more arm/shoulder room as the Plus 8 doors are much thinner than the Aero doors with their wind up windows.

Cheers,


Edited by Peter J (10/02/19 12:42 PM)
Edit Reason: add photo
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#559009 - 10/02/19 12:45 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Cineman Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/09
Posts: 88
Loc: Dartmoor
I guess changing the steering wheel for the later type would be relatively easy - I just looked at a photo of the later one which looks much better. Thanks for the info about the weight: my brother reckons the weight on the steering of the older +8's would drive me nuts: it is better on the Aero version?

If you find yourself on the A38 to Plymouth, I am only 5 mins off the road so come for a cuppa - I'm mostly home Fri-Mon.
_________________________
Oliver S.

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#559033 - 10/02/19 03:17 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10931
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By Cineman
I guess changing the steering wheel for the later type would be relatively easy - I just looked at a photo of the later one which looks much better. Thanks for the info about the weight: my brother reckons the weight on the steering of the older +8's would drive me nuts: it is better on the Aero version?

If you find yourself on the A38 to Plymouth, I am only 5 mins off the road so come for a cuppa - I'm mostly home Fri-Mon.




The Aero +8 has power steering... just about perfect load.

I may be going down to Oakhampton next month, so we could arrange something!
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#559034 - 10/02/19 03:36 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Ray Offline

Part of the Furniture

Registered: 05/04/14
Posts: 4007
Loc: Llanelli
Why not take a trip to Berrybrook?
_________________________
.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.

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#559038 - 10/02/19 03:54 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
nick w Offline

Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Registered: 31/03/09
Posts: 1937
I drove one of the first bmw plus 8s and an Aero (was it a supersport?) at a factory open day. The plus 8 had (for me) noticeably better handling. The roads were very slightly wet. I had trouble keeping the aero in a straight line when applying power whereas the plus 8 was fine and, in fact, fabulous.
The very calm factory representative (who was soon to be MD) said, very gently as we were sliding in the aero "We've only got one of these...". The aero I'm talking about was a white coupe, not sure of the actual model name.
Nick


Edited by nick w (10/02/19 03:56 PM)

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#559044 - 10/02/19 04:06 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Ray]
Roady Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 62
Loc: returned OggieMogger
Suggest you pop along to BerryBrook or give them a ring. They are having an open day shortly (no details currently on the website) so no doubt you'll be able to try whatever's available.

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#559065 - 10/02/19 05:39 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Roady]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 18877
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By Roady
Suggest you pop along to BerryBrook or give them a ring. They are having an open day shortly (no details currently on the website) so no doubt you'll be able to try whatever's available.


I received a mail shot last week advertising an Open day on 15th June with 10% off all shop items, excluding parts it says.
_________________________
Richard
1999 Indigo +8






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#559090 - 10/02/19 08:24 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Cineman Offline

Just Getting Started

Registered: 17/11/09
Posts: 88
Loc: Dartmoor
Thanks Peter - that's the kind of detail I was looking for. I think your dash and colour scheme looks fine - not trad but OK and your steering wheel acceptable!!
I was very interested in the fact you regard the car as a "daily" - I would find it hard to say that of the Roadster as in the end it is skittish - fun & engaging but not relaxed.
Sounds like the Aero Plus 8 is quite different in that regard - primarily because of the chassis I assume.
Drop in for a cuppa if you are travelling down the A38 to Plymouth.. we're just 5 mins off the road near Ashburton.
Cheers
Oliver.
_________________________
Oliver S.

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#559097 - 10/02/19 09:09 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5463
Loc: Hampshire
Oliver - Peter has also owned a Roadster V6 prior to his Aero +8 so he has experience of both. Worth a chat over that as well I suspect ?

The Aero chassis brings a lot better traction, handling and braking. The long pedal travel also acts like a reasonably sensible traction control. I have only had a couple of sideways moments and knew I was pushing it in the prevailing weather.
_________________________
Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.

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#559143 - 11/02/19 09:51 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
1560 Offline
Goodwood Drifter
Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 3213
Loc: european union
maybe the new 'widebody' will be at secondhand AeroPlus8 price-levels

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/morgan-enjoys-record-year-in-2018/39577
_________________________
now: NoMog
sold: A'max/M3W/V6/444seater

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#559145 - 11/02/19 10:16 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: 1560]
Rovert Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 22/08/13
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By 1560
maybe the new 'widebody' will be at secondhand AeroPlus8 price-levels

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/morgan-enjoys-record-year-in-2018/39577


Difficult to imagine I fear.

New chassis to Amortise.
New Engine\ turbo\ ultra sophisticated electronics to get working.
What The Market Will Bear pricing policy
_________________________
Brian
Jersey & Spain

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#559154 - 11/02/19 11:10 AM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
JB62 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 20/03/14
Posts: 355
Loc: Berkshire/Oxon & Devon
I have a V8 Speedster - after a 76 4/4 4 then a highly modified 4/4 (from new 2012). Part of my enjoyment was the journey from taking a "cooking" 4/4 up to a Competition spec car. It was a hoot to drive but once I had the finished product - it was time to do something "different".

The Speedster is a fundamentally different car- but strangely, it still gives me the Morgan- "feeling" ( whatever that is!).

People treat you the same way on petrol forecourts and you still get let out of side roads.

The dials still mist up - and the horn falls out of the Moto Lita wheel over big bumps!

You get waved at by passers by - and inevitably you are asked about wood!

The whole thing appears more civilised- until you don't want it to be. Then it becomes a bit crazed!

I personally really enjoy being able to waft along in 6th on torque one moment - then using the gears to make the side exit pipes howl the next.

I've enjoyed all my Morgans for different reasons- it just needs to be right for you.

The advertised car is not a Morgan Speedster- so not sure if they are trying to charge more/less for that description?

Nice car anyway.
_________________________
V8 Speedster

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#559165 - 11/02/19 12:46 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10931
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By Cineman
Thanks Peter - that's the kind of detail I was looking for. I think your dash and colour scheme looks fine - not trad but OK and your steering wheel acceptable!!
I was very interested in the fact you regard the car as a "daily" - I would find it hard to say that of the Roadster as in the end it is skittish - fun & engaging but not relaxed.
Sounds like the Aero Plus 8 is quite different in that regard - primarily because of the chassis I assume.
Drop in for a cuppa if you are travelling down the A38 to Plymouth.. we're just 5 mins off the road near Ashburton.


Cheers
Oliver.


Oliver PM sent.
I use it as a daily drive from about March to November, then through the winter as the opportunity arrises. The week ahead looks good.

I share your views of the Roadster. Bags of grunt, but the suspension at both ends isn't really up to the power on hand. We had the SSL front end and might have their 5 link rear end, but the chassis in between is still 60 year old technology.

The Aero +8 has much more power, but a chassis that isn't really troubled by the power. We have an Auto, in normal D mode it is a relaxed, easy driving car. In sport mode, which activates the paddle shift, it can be driven as in D mode, but with very little effort it becomes a howling beast.

I've had the back end step out once, otherwise it just goes as instructed.

Another difference between the Roadster and Plus 8 is heat soak into the cockpit. On the Roadster it was VERY significant. In the Plus 8 there is none. The A/C is great at keeping feet cool in the summer. The heater also seems to be more powerful and controllable.

As has been said, the car in the advertisement isn't a Speedster, but the price is good. With 38700 miles run I'd expect Tarka to go for a bit less, but not massively so.
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#559181 - 11/02/19 03:25 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10931
Loc: Salisbury, UK
I've just carefully reviewed the advertisement: it is somewhat confused...

First, it is an autobox, the gear position indicator on the transmission tunnel is visible.
Second, the engine is NOT lifted from the M5, but from the X5 truck and 745 car.

The red dash is horrid. It is painted MDF. One reason ours looks OK is that the colour is "wood like". I have expensive upgrade plans...

The mileage is very low.. less than 1000 miles a year. Why? Hs it been serviced every year? Even if it has I wouldn't trust the tyres. They are Yokahama's and are likely to be from 2012. So 7 years old, mostly effectively in storage. There will be no wear...and precious little grip. The Plus 8 needs all the grip it can get and the rears wear about 2x the fronts. My rears lasted about 18,000 miles and the last 2000 were "interesting"
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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#559195 - 11/02/19 04:19 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
MOG 615 Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Registered: 24/09/14
Posts: 1280
Loc: London
Oliver

Just a couple more thoughts to help confuse you further.

The Aero based +8 has very little luggage space behind the seats , I put a camera bag there for a test drive , and I was really surprised how little additional space there was , certainly a great deal less than the Roadster and other trads. You can of course put a luggage rack on the rear panel if you need.

You also have to embrace the concept of living without a spare wheel. If your motoring is in daylight hours in places that are likely to stock the tyre size needed then fine , but if you enjoy motoring through the wilder and less populated areas of this (or indeed any) country , then all you get is a can of sealant. If that is OK by you , then fine , if not then you might need to re-think things.

Lastly I know others here have vouched how the Aero +8 handles really well and the tail end is well controlled. I have a feeling this must take some skill. I found it quite challenging at around 4,000 rpm when the VANOS system opens up and a whole load more torque suddenly gets transmitted to the rear wheels. On an admittedly short test drive the conditions were appalling , cold sleet , soaking roads and not great visibility I almost got a tank slapper while accelerating up a hill in fourth. It gave me something to think about.

The only way you can decide is to test a few cars and see if you can live with the differences.
_________________________
Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.

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#559203 - 11/02/19 05:07 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 16978
Loc: South Yorkshire
I haven't experienced the Aero Plus 8, but my S5 Aero test drive showed me it's not for me.

It was about comfort, which sounds odd, but the relationship between pedals and steering wheel doesn't fit my shape.

I had to sit too close to the steering wheel to reach the pedals, and it was just uncomfortable, even on a short run.
_________________________
DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4

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#559208 - 11/02/19 05:22 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Cineman]
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5463
Loc: Hampshire
Yes the point around the steering wheel to pedals distance has foxed a few peoples plans. Also the manuals need a little practice as the pedals are floor hinged. Good if you have had a Beetle/911 in the past but a little learning otherwise. Autos are floor hinged but as you are not leaning on the clutch less of an issue.
_________________________
Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.

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#559236 - 11/02/19 06:51 PM Re: Morgan S1 Roadster versus Modern Plus 8 Trad [Re: Alistair]
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 13/08/13
Posts: 10931
Loc: Salisbury, UK
Originally Posted By Alistair
Yes the point around the steering wheel to pedals distance has foxed a few peoples plans. Also the manuals need a little practice as the pedals are floor hinged. Good if you have had a Beetle/911 in the past but a little learning otherwise. Autos are floor hinged but as you are not leaning on the clutch less of an issue.


Alistair was kind enough to let me drive his Aeros when I was thinking of changing. The manual box is a challenge as the clutch, as well as being floor hinged, is quite sharp. I still feel guilty about the amount of clutch slip I caused....

The auto is easy to drive. Interestingly, the auto box ratios match the manual ones only in sport mode. in D Mode it starts in 2nd and changes early, so is very benign.
I feel the car works better for the average driver with an auto box than manual.
_________________________
Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8



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