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Re: New road to success [Re: aerotaff] #564559
08/03/19 10:29 AM
08/03/19 10:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,246
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,246
Hampshire
That's cobblers.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: New road to success [Re: aerotaff] #564568
08/03/19 11:08 AM
08/03/19 11:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,227
norfolk, UK
L
lowebird Offline
Part of the Furniture
lowebird  Offline
Part of the Furniture
L

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,227
norfolk, UK
Originally Posted By aerotaff
Reg, I nearly choked on my garabaldi you are a naughty boy......


Em


Well, it helps to stimulate discussion and get more in depth replies from members who know a whole lot more than I do, of course I want to see Morgan go on and on. They are like a breath of fresh air in an increasingly grey world for cars. I just wish in hind sight I had bought the Aero Super Sport when I had the chance.


Here for a good time not a long time!!
Reg
Re: New road to success [Re: aerotaff] #564604
08/03/19 01:23 PM
08/03/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,776
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,776
Originally Posted By aerotaff
After all the doom and gloom of End of the road for Morgan the factory looks very healthy they have a very nice range of cars nobody hear's very much from the family from year to year and the boss seems very happy with the new investor.
Em


Maybe but what you are looking at here is a classic case of a family business which a few generations down the line has none of the family interested in it and wanting to sell out. So in comes an outside manager who ramps up the short term profitability by jacking up prices and thus getting the best deal for the family. Sure they have retained some ownership, likely out of sentimentality. But the boss is now Italian and the company will be driven hard to get financial returns.

All sorts of possible routes from applying the Morgan label to aftershave etc to making the trad in India. Thats the route I would take as a businessman.

Re: New road to success [Re: aerotaff] #564640
08/03/19 03:22 PM
08/03/19 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,470
A
aerotaff Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
aerotaff  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,470
Prices have been ramping up since 2003 Howard when family owned, but it has been a bit dramatic since Charle's exit over the last few years. I still wish them well though.

Em

Re: New road to success [Re: howard] #564647
08/03/19 03:42 PM
08/03/19 03:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 384
Cork
Chester.G Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Chester.G  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 384
Cork
Originally Posted By howard
Originally Posted By aerotaff
After all the doom and gloom of End of the road for Morgan the factory looks very healthy they have a very nice range of cars nobody hear's very much from the family from year to year and the boss seems very happy with the new investor.
Em


Maybe but what you are looking at here is a classic case of a family business which a few generations down the line has none of the family interested in it and wanting to sell out. So in comes an outside manager who ramps up the short term profitability by jacking up prices and thus getting the best deal for the family. Sure they have retained some ownership, likely out of sentimentality. But the boss is now Italian and the company will be driven hard to get financial returns.

All sorts of possible routes from applying the Morgan label to aftershave etc to making the trad in India. Thats the route I would take as a businessman.


+1

Re: New road to success [Re: aerotaff] #564672
08/03/19 05:19 PM
08/03/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,246
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,246
Hampshire
Howard, Chester.G.

Are you both serious ? Or just trying to get a rise ? I am not writing this in anger but because I think the comments you make are cheap jibes and show a lack of respect for the staff and management old/new of Morgan. Also of the people on this Forum, it's called TalkMorgan for a reason. I am not certain they reflect well you you earlier but I have already said that bit above.

Is the UK specialist car industry going down the tubes ?

Recently under Geely Lotus have released some competitive new cars for the first time in ages. They are showing signs of serious engagement with their traditional paying customer base again. Confidence is returning to the dealer channel.

Caterham are in rude health. 2017 was a near record for them and they took £1.15m investment to grow internationally.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/caterham-ceo-‘i’d-love-produce-aluminium-chassis-seven’

Aston Martin managed a somewhat successful IPO and have a better than ever chance of growth compared to years of losses under their part time (but dedicated and honourable) family ownership previously. The car range is about to get an SUV which has traditionally almost doubled figures (Porsche, Bentley etc). The DB11 has made a massive number of conquest sales from other brands. The new V8 model looks like a winner if initial sales are to be believed. Who helped them again? Could Aston have continued, yes but would they have got the focus and management support to put them where they are today. Hiring Ulrich Bez was a big thing and could not have been done without II I suspect.

McLaren have exploded onto the road car market in a short time and are now justifiably being compared to Ferrari's and other ultra/super cars. 2018 was another record sales year. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/mclaren-confirms-another-record-year-2018

Ariel have made a consistent and growing business with the car, bike and off-road thingy. I don't see them going away any time soon.

BAC have continued to find customers for their track day lunatic.

Ultima remain in business with constant development of their limited product range.

CCM, Norton and Trimuph all seem to be finding customers for their bikes. Triumph are in rude health and still manufacturing in the UK.

Ricardo?
Hewland?

David Brown has made it clear that people are willing to gamble with their own money at very high end with the factory near Silverstone.

Morgan? As I understand it the new chassis has been financed from existing revenues and not out of the new II pot. They hired in new staff from Lotus, excellent decision. They executed the launch like a company ten times their size at Geneva. The press have covered it very well. Their revenues are buoyant under the existing management structure so if your jibe is that things will slip due to only profit focus you might like to wonder about that one ?

I hold my breath on TVR.

Frontline Developments remain around selling correctly assembled MGB's with nice engines.

That's before the discussion around F1 and FormulaE comes into it. I think a good chunk of the engineering comes from the UK?

So the Italian investors, lets discuss them. Lets not use the word owners as they actually act like consultant directors and money lenders. In England that seems to have become a dirty term but in truth they are taking a bigger gamble. Would you give all your money to someone you didn't know that well? They are a family owned business not an anonymous multi-national organisation. They have history in speciality automotive. Some might say more than the Morgan family, Charles excepted.

Some negative remarks have been made about Ducati. Would someone care to expand on them. They took the neat but limited company as it was in 2005 and built it with the existing team in the same factory until 2012 when they had the best year ever. Is that scraping a profit or building a profit. Yes they got their reward for this but did the staff or customers suffer in some way? If profits were not involved in daily life then most of us would not own a Morgan now.
https://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/03/12/manufacturers/ducati/ducati-announces-record-sales-in-2012/

They then secured its long term future by placing it with VW Group through Audi/Lambo. Hardly selling it off to the death star and sacking the staff is it? Are the bikes they are producing today garbage ? Are they in a different market position to where they were before ?

As for the aftershave comments, the existing management have done all of that already, whats left for the new team, themed wooden Pasta laugh2

So if you are going to sling rocks then pull up your keyboard and justify them?

Not angry, just disappointed.

Last edited by Alistair; 08/03/19 05:21 PM.

Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: New road to success [Re: aerotaff] #564673
08/03/19 05:23 PM
08/03/19 05:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,320
N
nick w Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
nick w  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
N

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,320
Nice post Alistair.
Nick

Re: New road to success [Re: nick w] #564675
08/03/19 05:27 PM
08/03/19 05:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 855
North of Stamford, UK
HeadlessBlue Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
HeadlessBlue  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 855
North of Stamford, UK
+1
HB


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Re: New road to success [Re: aerotaff] #564677
08/03/19 05:31 PM
08/03/19 05:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,827
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,827
Gloucestershire, UK
Excellent post. Alistair. I think you might have forgotten to mention Ginetta, Quaife and MBE? 3 more small UK automotive companies that punch way above their weight. There are probably more.

MMC's strategy is provably right for them, and the new car sounds like a great development. I am a bit concerned that they are leaving the lower end of the market to people like Caterham, but they have obviously thought about it.

If InvestIndustrial's strategy with MMC is to do a Ducati and help develop them into an attractive proposition for a future owner, then all to the good. II will see a good return on their investment and MMC will be in an even better position. It makes no difference to us who owns the shares after all.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: New road to success [Re: Alistair] #564680
08/03/19 05:45 PM
08/03/19 05:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,316
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,316
Mandello del Lario
Nicely put and well reasoned Alistair. thumbs


Peter

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