Pete Larsen of Liberty Motors in Seattle WA didn't 'retire' after selling his ACE designs to Morgan a decade ago. Pete has been back at it and his ACE 2.0 will be a mid-engine 3 wheeled screamer! It has a flat 6 and shaft drive from a Honda Goldwing just behind the seats that are basically between the front wheels and the gas pedal is inches behind the nosecone for anyone that feels too sheltered currently.

I for one can't wait; in Pete's words it will be a, "Bug-eyed and ethereal experience!"

There must be thousands of gold wing rear ends our there because of all the trike conversions

Wow, cannot wait to see it. Any prototype photos ?

Drum roll....

this is computer rendering

The frame is a work of art, some of the best welding i have seen. And the geometry of it suggests it will handle like a formula car.

Liking that! Where do I sign up?

Pete has a number of frames made and they are gorgeous square aluminum artwork.

here is another teaser...

pretty, but doesnt seem as special as the ACE, or M3W. This just looks like another run of the mill 3 wheeler kits out there. If you wanted a closed engine bay, you would be better off with a slingshot I am sure.

Trust me, the Ace 2.0 is much more sophisticated and doesn'y even come close to looking like a Batmobile like the Slingshot. The handling should be light years ahead of all other 3 Wheelers.

Now that is one sophisticated looking 3 wheeler, he deserves lots of success with this design with such a smooth power unit and drive train to match an equally sophisticated chassis by the sound of it.

Looks like a Bugatti 3 wheeler - hope it isn’t priced the same!

Kudos to Pete for continuing 3 wheeler R&D. A lesson for Morgan perhaps...

That looks awesome.

It is interesting that he is sticking with RWD. How is the rear wheel driven with this one?

If it's full Honda Gold Wing, then shaft drive all the way to the rear wheel.

It is a spectacularly close coupled Goldwing and nothing extra. Engine, trans, shaft to rear differential/hub and wheel. Nothing to get dirt and debris in the drive and you can bet it is smooth and quiet.

Looks spectacular, Awesome even.
Luggage rack? Range and price.
John.

so is he also using a gold wing engine? Sort of like sitting on a sewing machine

I kind of like the inherent vibration, sort of like a rotary engine in a WWI or II plane.

Yep, Goldwing engine, smooth and quiet unless you modify the pipes.

I'm not sure a comparison to the Slingshot is equitable. I've always thought that the Slingshot looked a bit like an inbred Transformer, it's engine is in front and is surprisingly large in person.

I do agree with the Bugatti reference and think this looks like it could be a Veyron's larval stage.

I'm pretty sure that Pete will be selling these like a new limited run supper-car. I don't think there is a formal application process but there's been mention of them going to a 'select' group of owners.

After owning ACE#10 for a short time I'm confident this will be quite something special; a race to Valhalla in a scalded hell-cat of his own making.

another rendering...

Lovin it already 😍

Greg, that is stunning and a wonderful descriptin.

Loving the Morganesque grille. Now, I wonder if.....

The design looks a little like a retro styled Grinnall Scorpian to me. Planenut can tell you how 'scary-fast' they are!

I can certainly confirm that the K1200RS engined Scorpion I had for 5 years was "Scary Fast". It was chipped and had about 140bhp with under 400 Kg to move. The newer ones have a lot more power! It was well engineered and reliable too....

Years ago I had a passenger ride in a Scorpion around the old Anglsea circuit.

I was blown away at how fast it was and how well it handled.

I don't know - I appreciate the engineering, the creativity, and the performance, but it just doesn't have the gestalt of the M3W.

For me, it's sort of like those Goldwings with the training wheel rears, I'm sure they are pleasant to ride, but seem to be neither fish no fowl. I'll take my 12yr old Lotus Elise out to carve corners all day. and the M3W when I want to do some serious motoring! Neither pretends to be like the other.

I would like to see a detailed engine and drivetrain peeking out from under the rear body work, perhaps via upswept bodywork (ala the electric M3W).

I am in the middle of buying an M3W and the low tail is the only part that concerns me. I don’t think the Ace 2.0 will have that issue.

I mounted a dash mounted rear view mirror which really helps see what is directly behind me. Although at speed the vibration makes headlights look like zeros

I am more concerned about the angle and depth of dips in the roadway. Like driveway aprons, loading ramps for ferryboats and steep driveways and getting the tail ground off on the pavement.

Obviously i am also concerned about vehicles directly behind me and in blind spots and the possibility of having to suddenly go offroad to get out of someones way. Getting slammed from behind is not a good thing, i have had it happen in cars and on motorcycles so I am very conscientious of whats around me. In spite of all that I am a believer that Murphy is on the Payroll and if something can go wrong it will.

one of the things I am learning is to watch for dips and potholes in the middle of the road and you suddenly get that "bump" up your bum.

The only time I scrapped the rear was backing into a parking spot, but I imagine ferry ramps and steep driveways might be an issue. Might need a spotter.

Or maybe a rear camera linked to a smart phone looking at that area and also acting as an additional rear view. It could be setup to have a record of who hit you :-)

Progress is being made on ACE 2.0!

Here is a pic of the nosecone out of the mold and grill / headlight install with the ACE badge being positioned...

This is looking very exciting and great progress. It's going to go like the wind and with no vibration.

And probably corner like it’s on rail and have an excellent view of the road.

You are probably right, I can't wait to see it up and running.

Wow! This is a great read. - Hats off to Pete Larson

Does anyone know how to get in touch with Pete? I have 2018 M3W I bought from him and need some guidance. His Liberty Motors contact stuff is returned nondeliverable. Thanks!

3Gs is your man.

Sorry AZ, I'm not Pete (got your PM) but have gotten to know him through my own M3W saga and then being lucky enough to acquire ACE#10.

Pete delivered his last M3W to LightSpeed on Monday, July 8th, and he's now received a legal Cease and Desist letter from Morgan. Morgan then deleted all websites, email addresses, and references to Pete's relationship with them ever existing. I doubt Pete can be of any assistance now, likely for legal reasons, even if he wanted to.

Very interesting actions from Morgan considering all of the history!

On a brighter side you can spy a rolling frame of an ACE 2.0 in one of LightSpeed's delivery pics (this pic) he posted earlier this week while at the Liberty Motors building just south of Seattle. Pete has also sold that building and is currently packing up shop to move to a new secret lair where he will complete his next version of dinosaur burning artwork... the ACE 2.0 !!!

If there is any way to contact Pete I'd appreciate the information in a private PM. He was a champion for me on my purchase.

Bummer to hear about the Morgan Factory issues. I know a local M3W dealer (who dropped his dealership) was unhappy with his relationship with the Factory too. I have a copy of Pete's book so the History will live on.

Hello, AZ: It is quite likely that we bought our M3W's form the same dealer in AZ. I now cannot get any response from their service department, and wonder if they are still in existence. I am very interested in Pete's latest creation. I was about to purchase his ACE #13 when the Morgan people made it impossible for me to proceed. Kindly advise me via PM if you discover a way to contact Mr. Larsen.

Pete is busy moving from a facility that has been family owned since 1925 to a more modern facility to more easily produce the Ace 2.0.

Morgan threatened him for having an email address that referenced the M3W so he is setting up new addresses for the new business.

Morgan seems very predatory.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, the message was listed as a Profile Comment and didn't get noticed...

Pete's tn# has not changed and is at the bottom of the old London Telegraph review of his ACE back in 2009; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/first-drives/4734497/Liberty-Ace-review.html

I don't think he can help with anything Morgan related these days, but the ACE 2.0 will be quite something when it's ready!

3GS, you are 100% correct.

I feel really sorry for Pete in the way he was treated by Morgan. They would not be making the new 5speeder if it wasn’t for Pete.

His new Ace 2.0 should be a real track burner, smooth and fast and completely reliable. A miniature F-1 👍😎

Fantastic looking vehicle.

Reminds me of an old joke...

- Do you know why divorces are so expensive?

- Because they're worth it!!!

👍

Here's another great article about Pete's first ACE with many nice pics; https://twistedsifter.com/2010/10/morgan-three-wheeler-trike-ace-cycle-car/

OK, back to the ACE 2.0 discussion...

After owning ACE#10 for a while I can honestly say it's amazing and I fully expect that 2.0 will be even scarier. It's not the modern / vintage Morgan look that Pete nailed with his first 3 wheeled creation, but I'm confident that the ACE 2.0 will be a petrol fueled fantasy...

"A bug-eyed and ethereal experience" was Pete's forecast as to what piloting the ACE 2.0 will be like!

I wonder how he's getting round the US regs requirement for this type of vehicle to have their headlights close together?

Andy, just a question, not disputing - are you saying that being classed as a motorcycle in the USA the headlights have to be even closer together?
On the ACE they are slightly wider apart than the above and that still seems to have meet the motorcycle requirements in (most?) US states.
In the UK and EU it would be different of course as it would have to meet UK DVSA MSVA rules.
Just a question, as I have some direct interest here. Cheers Peter.

I suspect, but cannot confirm, that the buyer needs to provide the Honda for the conversion. So, it would already be registered as a Honda Goldwing and is just modified.
I am pretty sure that judging by this state and the previous state in which we lived that once it is registered with platesnobody inspects anything on motorcycles.

I've read a couple online articles about motorcycle headlight rules here in the US and it does seem that a federal law states 8" from light to light as the max distance apart.

I have seen some of the early Slingshots and they had their main headlights over the front tires embedded into the body work. Since then they have relocated their main headlights to the center of the main body work and only have driving lights/turn signals outward mounted.

So if Polaris changed their lights to conform, it must be a thing. Now how well is it enforced, who knows. I have a buddy down at the Lake Of The Ozarks that I got interested in three wheelers and he built a from scratch Moto Guzzi powered three wheeler. When completed he took it to Springfield for the highway patrol safety and title application. He has his headlights similar to the M3W originals mounted outbound almost to the fenders. He got his approval and title from the MO State Highway Patrol Troop C. Again if it's a law and Polaris conformed to the narrow headlights, maybe it's just a law that doesn't get enforced or maybe as some I've found, just don't know about all the new laws of their state.

I was talking with a trooper at a swap meet last year and he didn't know that MO had passed a Cyclecar law allowing people without a M endorsement on their driver's license to drive "car type seating and steering" three wheelers without it. You do still have to wear the helmet, but some states with the Cyclecar law included the deletion of the helmet requirement in their state law.

Even with all the laws here in the US, one does not know what's what and usually not many of authority can help with the correct answers.

It is the federal import laws that trigger it and like Vanderhall the manufacture of NEW vehicles must conform to the federal law, but any cop on the beat knows where a head lamp works best. I bet if Vanderhall lovers made a cool looking head lamp addiction for outboard head lamps they would sell and find their way onto existing Vanderhalls.

enforcement can be an issue. In VA we have an annual inspection, but the guys are so thrilled just to look at my M3W that all they checked was whether the lights worked. Some states have no inspection at all. Also, like any laws, a vehicle only has to conform to the standards of when it was manufactured.

I have wondered where Pete might get his engines, and donor bikes are certainly an option. Although that usually means a vehicle that has been in an accident. The risk is you get an engine with unknown maintenance and miles. He might also get them from Honda.

Gold wing rear ends are a dime a dozen (like stock HD mufflers) from all the trike conversions.

He mentioned the customer would have to provide a donor bike.

Here we do not have annual inspections but when they do inspect for some other reason they check pollution emissions compliance and make sure you have working lighting.

that is it for us, the lights have to work. Although they also failed my wife's GL1200/sidecar as the rear brake pad was too wore out. dang you almost have to crawl under the bike to see that

Did they check with mirrors?

not sure, they may have. But the rear brake is on the top of the rotor, and the 1200 has a whole wrap around saddlebag on it.

What I have discovered when changing the pads is the pins that should allow the caliper to float do not.... weird how that can happen on a 33 year old vehicle.....

Sorry Peter, I'm not an expert in this field! It just sprang to mind when I saw the Ace 2.0 and compared it to what Morgan had to do to the M3W to enable continued importation into the USA. Added to that, the Slingshot & Vanderhall both have to do something similar. Somewhere in a thread on this forum is a link to the official (very reasonable) request that Morgan made to ask for an exemption which would have allowed them to continue with the outboard headlights. It was rejected by a bureaucratic pen-pusher, thus the silly USA headlamp setup had to be developed.

And I put the old style on my new morgan and nobody says anything except, wow👍

I won't admit to anything....

Really? Pete bough new Goldwing rear end assemblies for his Harley powered ACEs from Honda; skeptical he'd build ACE 2.0 around used parts?

Maybe it had something to do with licensing.

If it's really just a headlight issue [to get licensed in US] put one (or two) lights behind the nose-cone's grill and leave the other two where they are. Call the lights behind the grill the headlights and the others fog-lights. I don't think there will be much clearance in this area, before you get to the pedals, but some of the currently available LED headlights are pretty low-profile, and can be very small diameter too. That grill is just for show and the only thing currently behind it are your toes.

Once it's licensed use whichever ones your want...

After divorcing from Morgan, selling his historic location where Pete built custom sidecars and the original ACEs, disconnecting his phone and barricading himself in his new secret location for many months of 7-day a week toil... IT'S ALIVE!!!

Earlier this week some south of Seattle were awoken at first light to the cacophony of a combustion banshee as Pete Larsen took his first 'test flight' in ACE 2.0!

A spy shot is below and here are a few of Pete's initial reactions from his inaugural sortie...

"...stiffer chassis, improved suspension geometry and weight distribution, the handling will be superior to the original ACE especially at high speeds."

In my personal experience my ACE#10 easily pulled away from Light Speed's M3W during our Hurricane Ridge hill-climb late last year.

"...may be the fastest car I’ve driven and I got sideways from throttle but with [damp road] conditions. Surprising low rumble at idle and throaty ripping sound on throttle. No one has ever uncorked a GL1800 motor before to hear her true voice likewise the potential power."

Pete added that the ECU will be Dyno tuned and left unlocked, but it's likely too much for many potential 'pilots' as is.

I trust that videos are sure to follow; in Pete's words, "when cosmetics are in line with expectations"

I think his smile says it all...

Congratulations Pete👍

Brilliant, and it looks very slippery and fast This is one sophisticated 3 wheeler and lovely workmanship.

Thanks for the update, getting close now.

Very nice, although hopefully mudguards will be an option

Wow! Very intriguing.

A totally different animal. With a powerful water cooled engine and shaft drive I bet it is really smooth.

I want both my M3W and this.

I wonder if Morgan are interested, the M3W will be 10 fairly soon and a ground up revision would be no bad thing.

That looks great - maybe a bit smaller than I had imagined. I look forward to Andrew English's full review!

I get the impression that the bridges in that relationship are well and truly burned!

To me it has a slight look of a 3 wheeled version of an Auto Union GP car.

Yes, it would look great in silver!

Looks great! Must be much fun to drive it!

I see it too and I can't think of a higher compliment! The era of Silver Arrows left us with some of the most gorgeous automotive artwork in existence, IMO.




After putting more miles on my ACE#10, than I got to put on my M3W ['upgrade' nightmares], I know first hand about the shortcomings of Mavlern's stewardship with Pete's initial 3-wheeler engineering (all of these thoughts are in other threads so I'll refrain from going further on this here).

Pete knows how I feel; anything he builds, I'll buy! Although he wont take my deposit yet, I requested that my name be on one of the six frames he'll build once his 'first-drive to finished product' process is complete, and it was a privilege to be considered for this reservation. I'm also perfectly fine with his no-timeline approach to achieving his standards.




I often dismiss silver on anything but vintage German but I agree that it would highlight the cosmetics to the 'Arrow' era; put the frame's number on the side in red to seal the image. I'm already dreaming of potential colors, but maybe that's Pete's choice too, and I'd be fine either way...

I totally agree. Auto Union Silver Arrow look.

I know what I would do with this.

Porsche GT Silver paint, cognac or biscotto Nappa leather interior, engine turned stainless steel dashboard.

3Gs, you’re one lucky guy.

Short front, long rear end.

It looks fantastic- Well done congratulations Pete on yet another outstanding design.

I totally agree with the visual reflection to the Auto Unions of the late 1930s C & D types and agree that silver would totally set it off.

I look fwd to reading more on this in the near future.

Fantastic post.

It was particularly the D type I was thinking of.

Type C 16 cylinder engine. They were engineering works of art. Agree Pandy, definite visual cues in Type D.

Definitely looking forward to reading and seeing more about Pete’s work of art.

so has he placed the engine behind the driver?

From the opening post and OP - Pete Larsen of Liberty Motors in Seattle WA didn't 'retire' after selling his ACE designs to Morgan a decade ago. Pete has been back at it and his ACE 2.0 will be a mid-engine 3 wheeled screamer! It has a flat 6 and shaft drive from a Honda Goldwing just behind the seats that are basically between the front wheels and the gas pedal is inches behind the nosecone for anyone that feels too sheltered currently.

I for one can't wait; in Pete's words it will be a, "Bug-eyed and ethereal experience!"

p.s. I reckon this will go like --it off a stainless shovel, it looks very meaningful - perhaps all 3 wheelers will be built to this standard one day .

I'll say that yesterday was a very lucky day for me...

Under the promise of secrecy I was given the coordinates of Pete's new shop; the front of it boarded over like a long vacant building, as I arrived in ACE#10. Around back, Pete paused for a moment to take in the return of his former 3-wheeled creation.

After a brief tour of the concealed location, I followed Pete in ACE 2.0 to an appropriate road and noticed that 2.0's exhaust note was the first that I've ever heard over my own V-Twin Harley's song, ever.

We stopped after some high speed twisties, with me hungrily eating 2.0's dust, and stood in the Winter sun to admire the two ACE siblings...



Pete then took some time at #10's wheel, to reminisce and reacquaint with its manners, compared to 2.0.

I was then lucky enough to be brought along for the shock of 2.0's early capabilities; howling crackling exhaust while being pushed into the un-upholstered foam passenger seat, the incredible sing of the nearside drilled disc rotor (an arm-span from my ears) on hard braking! Yes, Pete has successfully born his "bug-eyed and ethereal" prophecy into reality...

IMHO; 2.0 is amazing already and still so much more to come!

From the side, this car has an incredible look
I like the look a little less, in fact, I will have integrated the lights as on a Jaguar type D
however it must be very fun to drive

Looking good👍

Wow! Lucky you.

I think it looks fantastic.

Very nicely done!

To design and build something like this from scratch is quite an accomplishment. Really like the concept of mid engine and shaft drive.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Any cockpit photos?

Still very much a prototype but I'm sure the large tach (white face) will keep it's dominant positioning...

This just gets better and better

What a clever man Peter is, looks great!
Must be more room in the cockpit without the drive shaft.

I bet that dosen't bump steer.

Looks like it has a stellar turning circle too...

Pete if you’re watching.

I still think an engine turned stainless steel dashboard would look great.

For my M3W I drew the template including speedo/tach cutouts and drill holes on thick paper. Sent to FPM Metals in Nebraska. They laser cut the dashboard out of stainless steel and engine turned. Excellent work and very reasonably priced. Great company to work with. Going to make another pitch for silver exterior paint.

Great job. Anxious to see the finished product.

Please understand that ACE 2.0 is still a prototype, unfinished, in progress... they will also not have a raw black gel-coat finish, body panels will not be affixed by racing tape, and the dash will be amazing. Pete has been letting me post these 'spy shots' and I think everyone has been enjoying the sneak peek, and the resulting enthusiasm too.

I've come to trust Pete's aesthetic and believe that whatever he chooses to do, it will be the proper path. Yes, there will be silver, and I'm also sure that they wont all look the same.

Sportster, I also want you to know that I appreciate your past efforts too... Since Morgan chose to ditch Pete's original ACE dash design for their version, I bought engine tuned panels from the shysters at Morgan West; which eventually arrived scratched and with the scallops orientated in different directions! After they begrudgingly agreed to take them back, I bought from FPM (at a third the price) and didn't even have to send in a template because YOU had already done that work; they fit perfectly too!

There are many pictures of my ACE#10's dash on this forum and below is a professional pic of what Pete did for all of his 13 original ACEs, as standard spec.

Now imagine what 2.0 will look like when she's truly finished and ready for her formal debut...

Thanks 3Gs.

I know this is an unfinished prototype. I worded the sentence “ I still think “ poorly.

Pete’s original ACEs were finished off very nicely.

Keep the pics of progress coming. Fun to watch it unfold.

Regards.

Thank you Sportster, all good stuff; back to 2.0...


During my ride in 2.0 Pete did a u-turn that started within our lane's outside line and finished just past of the oncoming lane's outside line the the tire still on the narrow paved shoulder; I think it could have been a bit tighter too.

I have video of this but I'd have to edit out the majority of the clip where the speed limit may have been 'slightly' exceeded.



I can say that ACE#10 doesn't bump steer, and Pete added that he was able to improve 2.0's geometry without the engine being there too.


Latest 2.0 updates: the ECU has now been further road tuned for even more go-go, and will be dyno tuned next month. Current headlights may get swapped with slightly smaller versions and rear lights are on order too.

I Have over 40,000 miles on my 2014 M3W it has been to Alaska and most of the west coast. I have only once or twice scraped the tail.

Do you have the raised European ride height?

Not that I am aware of. Stock from Morgan. Purchased from Liberty Motors Seattle.

Then you probably have the low rider version. When you take the boot tray out and look at the swing arm, mine has two mounting positions for the shocks and mine is set for the lower ride height.

I did not realize there are two mounting positions..... I am short so the last thing I want to be is a low rider

Look at your swing arm to see if you are riding high or riding low. The other difference is the front suspension uprights, they make two different ones with different part numbers. The Euro one is higher I think. Since I have zero intention of racing my three wheeler I have considered putting the higher front uprights on. In all reality it might be less money and a better solution to put on Ohlins and set the ride height up a bit.

[img][img]https://www.tm-img.com/images/2020/02/21/Screen-Shot-2020-02-21-at-8.06.33-AM.png[/img][/img]

[img][img]https://www.tm-img.com/images/2020/02/21/Screen-Shot-2020-02-21-at-8.06.33-AM.png[/img][/img]

Sorry for the messy links. I tried to capture screen shots from the M#W Part Manual Version 5.2

This morning it was 18f.... so it may be a while before I work in the garage - LOL