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#572119 - 15/04/19 08:41 PM This is a bad day.....for the UK
MDS61 Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 08/07/15
Posts: 325
Loc: Shropshire
So I don't often do politics very often... but

Shamina Begum granted legal aid on the same day an OAP ex serviceman is charged with an offence dating from 1972.

Seriously! swear
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#572122 - 15/04/19 08:51 PM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: MDS61]
dmh Online   content

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 13/08/09
Posts: 585
Loc: Cheltenham - UK
Agree, agree - the system has gone mad.

Could be said of so many things unfortunately.
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#572123 - 15/04/19 08:53 PM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: MDS61]
Rovert Offline
Just Getting Started

Registered: 22/08/13
Posts: 94
Disagree. One of the most hated people from the UK gets legal aid. An example that the UK values the rule of law over populism.
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Jersey & Spain (at least until the Brexit mess resolves itself)

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#572124 - 15/04/19 09:02 PM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: MDS61]
BertR Offline

Talk Morgan Regular

Registered: 13/12/09
Posts: 581
Loc: Aerdenhout, The Netherlands
principle of the rule of law, I am be proud and count my blessings to live in country where this matters. One may not like it always, but alternatives are far worse.
I too try not to get too deeply involved in politics on this forum. However, on this occasion I wanted to make plea that we Western Europeans, could cherish our freedom of speech, democracy and rule of law, a bit more. It is a privalige, it is fragile, handle it with care.
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#572153 - 15/04/19 11:18 PM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: Rovert]
pandy Online   content

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 7165
Loc: West Paris, France
Originally Posted By Rovert
Disagree. One of the most hated people from the UK gets legal aid. An example that the UK values the rule of law over populism.


Totally agree with you Brian.
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#572154 - 15/04/19 11:21 PM Re: This is a good day.....for the UK [Re: BertR]
+8Rich Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 15/12/09
Posts: 19456
Loc: Devonshire
Originally Posted By BertR
principle of the rule of law, I am be proud and count my blessings to live in country where this matters. One may not like it always, but alternatives are far worse.
I too try not to get too deeply involved in politics on this forum. However, on this occasion I wanted to make plea that we Western Europeans, could cherish our freedom of speech, democracy and rule of law, a bit more. It is a privalige, it is fragile, handle it with care.


Spot on Bert clap if only more people would realise this.
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1999 Indigo +8






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#572165 - 16/04/19 07:09 AM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: pandy]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 7393
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By pandy
Originally Posted By Rovert
Disagree. One of the most hated people from the UK gets legal aid. An example that the UK values the rule of law over populism.


Totally agree with you Brian.


Indeed. The principle of Rule of Law, along with separation of legislature, executive, and judiciary are the absolute cornerstones of the British democracy and way of life. It is important that these are defended and adhered to.

It's a natural and understandable reaction to feel anger at charging an ex-soldier over the Bloody Sunday killings, like many of us I come from a military family (I am the first in at least 3 generations not to serve) and the instinct is always to defend our servicemen and stand up for their sacrifice.

But we must also remember that 14 British people died on that day in 1972, many shot in the back while running away trying to find shelter, or helping others.

The inquiry found the killings were unjustified and that none of the 14 dead was carrying a gun, no warnings were given, no soldiers were under threat and the troops were the first to open fire.

Soldier F is being charged for the murder of James Wray and William McKinney, and for the attempted murders of 4 others.

James 'Jim' Wray was shot in the back while running away from soldiers in Glenfada Park courtyard. He was then shot again in the back as he lay mortally wounded on the ground. William McKinney was also shot in the back as he attempted to flee through Glenfada Park courtyard.





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Tim H.
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#572168 - 16/04/19 07:26 AM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: MDS61]
John V6 Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 21/07/07
Posts: 13002
Loc: Suffolk
She should get legal aid for all the reasons stated above. I don't like the idea but I like to live in a country that does this.

As for the soldiers that is not right in my mind. They were defending our liberty.
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JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1

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#572173 - 16/04/19 07:41 AM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: John V6]
Hamwich Offline

Talk Morgan Guru

Registered: 28/04/08
Posts: 7393
Loc: Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted By John V6

As for the soldiers that is not right in my mind. They were defending our liberty.


It's a very difficult issue, isn't it? Yes, the army was originally in Northern Ireland to protect the citizens from terrorist attacks. But at what point do we continue to offer soldiers (or police officers, firemen, or any public service) protection when they stray outside the law and outside what we might consider to be acceptable behaviour?

There was a massive demonstration by motorcyclists in London yesterday, showing their support for Soldier F, and it was absolutely right that they should be able to do so. What would have happened if a squad of Police officers from the firearms unit decided that the bikers represented a threat to the public and started shooting them?

Charges would quite properly be not only in order but demanded by the public. And what if the Police force closed ranks and made it very difficult to identify the perpetrators? How long should we go on trying to find those guilty? 5 years? 10? 50?

In the case of Soldier F, I believe there is a strong argument for not charging him, but nevertheless the law indicates that there is sufficient evidence to gain a conviction. I suspect that a jury of his peers will disagree and reach a not guilty verdict, but we must let due process take its course. Otherwise what exactly is it we are fighting to defend?
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Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar

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#572174 - 16/04/19 07:42 AM Re: This is a bad day.....for the UK [Re: MDS61]
Northernmorgan Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 22/12/18
Posts: 260
Loc: Northern England
It’s not the fact that she will get legal aid that annoys me....it’s that the money will line the pockets of lawyers who are no doubt queuing up to defend her.

I won’t comment on the soldiers...I don’t know enough of what happened on that day and the pressures they were under. Depending on which paper you read, right or left wing, you will get a different slant. Oh for some truth in this world.
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1936 Austin Seven Ulster Replica

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