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#572143 - 15/04/19 10:12 PM VW Boss guilty
madmax Offline
Part of the Furniture

Registered: 18/08/14
Posts: 4521
Loc: East Anglia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/47937141

Difficult to understand why they comitted this fraud . Looks a horrible mess for VW/Audi/Porsche . £24 billion cost so far , have they really got this sort of dosh ?


Edited by madmax (15/04/19 10:17 PM)
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#572149 - 15/04/19 10:44 PM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
MJF Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 04/06/18
Posts: 214
Loc: Bristol
VW Group has reported profits of about €17bn for the last couple of years, so I guess they can stand this level of cost, but it has come at a time when car manufacturers are having to invest in electric vehicles as well as maintain conventional ICE product, which must create more stretch.

I suspect the desire to be number one in the world was one of the prime motivations.

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#572169 - 16/04/19 07:27 AM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
Robbie Offline

Talk Morgan Expert

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2627
Loc: Co Wexford, Ireland
Crazy. The rules stated they needed to present a car that would pass the test - it didn’t say how. They did and then the yanks saw a way to “down” imported cars as their ones were loosing out in sales. Seems to me it was more about that than the environment — the Yanks are great polluters and haven’t they withdrawn from the Paris agreement!!
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2018 Plus4 - Black
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#572191 - 16/04/19 09:02 AM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
IcePack Offline

Learner Plates Off!

Registered: 17/07/11
Posts: 431
Interesting in that our jaguar has just had a recall over it’s CO2 emissions. I wonder if all manufacturers were using the same sort of software to defeat the emissions tests.
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#572199 - 16/04/19 09:15 AM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
Alistair Online   happy
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5741
Loc: Hampshire
MJF this is asked because I am interested not because I am trying to test you etc etc.

You say "having to invest" yet I feel this is a knee jerk reaction to a fashion issue triggered by the VW/Industry cheating problem.

If the root issue is save the planet I still feel this is just the next cul-de-sac given the known issues with lugging big heavy batteries about and charging infrastructure etc etc.

What is the imperative behind this left turn as you see it?
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#572214 - 16/04/19 10:26 AM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
MJF Offline

L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 04/06/18
Posts: 214
Loc: Bristol
I think the need to invest in EV platforms is something of a directional move for the industry, but not certainly not triggered by the VW cheating issue.

There is little doubt that Tesla has had a significant impact on the whole of the industry by showing that there is a market for EV product at a premium price.

By denouncing climate change, Trump, has probably had a significant impact on convincing a lot of people that it is real and ironically helped stimulate the market

Increasing numbers of cities moving towards improving the air quality / greater awareness of data relating to air quality has had an impact

In any industry there is a herding instinct and a classic fear of missing out, which with a long lead time on the development of EV's (especially if a greater % of composites is being used) makes it more difficult to respond to changing market demand.

Institutional investors are also increasingly having a greater influence over many aspects of direction of public companies. Whether they are actually qualified to influence direction is of course very debatable.

There will also be a fear of litigation at some time in the US if manufacturers are not seen to be moving to improve air quality in the cities.

Is all of this a complete cul-de-sac - there is no doubt that greater adoption of battery EV's will improve the quality of air in cities which is a good thing. Will it address climate change concerns - probably not to a sufficient degree, but I think it may provide a stepping stone towards a hydrogen economy and get manufacturers and consumers more used to composite structures and electric drivetrains. Ultimately the use of hydrogen as a fuel produced with renewables would seem to be the most efficient end game.

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#572222 - 16/04/19 10:54 AM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
Deejay Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Registered: 20/06/15
Posts: 209
Loc: North Somerset, UK
So where is the electricity going to come from, if we all go green? Certainly not from our existing electricity infra structure. If we all plug in, the lights will go out all over the country!

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#572250 - 16/04/19 02:04 PM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
Alistair Online   happy
Smile, it confuses them
Charter Member

Registered: 18/03/09
Posts: 5741
Loc: Hampshire
Thank you. Point 3 made me laugh. So by negating it he has helped it, ironic.
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#572252 - 16/04/19 02:07 PM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: madmax]
Gambalunga Offline

Member of the Inner Circle

Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 11117
Loc: Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Here in Italy we are being told that the modern diesel cars with fine carbon particle filter and Addblue to reduce NOx are still viable as a relatively low pollution option because they produce much less in the way of CO2 and the other polutents are contained within reasonable levels.

Full electric vehicles are really only viable as city cars or for relatively short commutes and it is absolutely impossible to switch all circulating vehicles to electricity. I can't really understand why most fully electric cars aim at the high powered luxury end of the market when many would be quite happy with a light electric vehicle. A small car with about 100 HP should produce reasonable performance because of the torque characteristics of electric motors and would suit most city commuters and urban shopping trips.

Some are saying that the answer for larger vehicles and longer trips is hybrid vehicles using small diesel engines offer the best compromise.
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#572331 - 16/04/19 08:54 PM Re: VW Boss guilty [Re: Robbie]
The Austrian Offline

Talk Morgan Addict

Registered: 17/10/14
Posts: 3409
Loc: Austria, close to Vienna
Originally Posted By Robbie
Crazy. The rules stated they needed to present a car that would pass the test - it didn’t say how. They did and then the yanks saw a way to “down” imported cars as their ones were loosing out in sales. Seems to me it was more about that than the environment — the Yanks are great polluters and haven’t they withdrawn from the Paris agreement!!


Business is war - isn't it?
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once: Green M3W; 2013
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