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Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: griffo] #573632
25/04/19 10:48 AM
25/04/19 10:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,293
Somerset, UK
P
PaulJ Offline
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PaulJ  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,293
Somerset, UK
Thanks for the suggestion Peter, but Heinz is absolutely right. I did do quite a bit of research into a blower early on in my tenure, including having a long to to a guy at Cosworth, and the general advice was that it just is not worth the trouble and expense. It would probably end up costing the same as Griffos conversion once all the extra bits and pieces plus work in getting it all to function have been added.

The answer is to forget torque and buzz along in one gear lower than normal. As it happens after 7000 odd miles, it seems to be getting torquier in the low and mid range, but nowhere near what a modern Ecotec engine is giving.


Paul
[Beginning to get the best out of the ARP4]
Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: griffo] #573651
25/04/19 03:00 PM
25/04/19 03:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,469
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,469
Salisbury, UK
I'm just getting used to the 2.0L turbo 4 engine in my new Mercedes A35. It has a twin scroll turbo, develops 302bhp and 295 ft lbs torque from 2500 rpm.

There is no detectable turbo lag, the engine spins up to the running in rev limit of 4500 rpm.

Based on Griffo's report and my experience with the A35 the Turbo +4, when it appears, will be magnificent! The BMW B48 motor, which I guess will be used, develops about 300 bhp and 300 ft lbs torque, depending on the installation.


Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8


Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: griffo] #573656
25/04/19 03:19 PM
25/04/19 03:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 171
R
Rovert Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Rovert  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 171
I find the concept of a 2 litre, 4 pot producing 300 bhp for use in a hefty road car a bit unreal. It would take a lot of money to make my 4 litre V8 produce that!


Brian
Jersey & Spain (at least until the Brexit mess resolves itself)
Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: Rovert] #573663
25/04/19 04:22 PM
25/04/19 04:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 11,429
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
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Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Perhaps the 185 kW (248 hp) version would be more realistic. 350 N⋅m (258 lb⋅ft)at 1,450–4,800 rpm would be more than enough and you would need some difference in both performance and price when compared to the Plus 6.

Then there would be the Plus 3 wink with the B38A15M0 1,500 cc 100 kW (134 bhp)at 4,400-6,000 rpm 220 N⋅m (162 lb⋅ft)at 1,250-4,300 rpm.

To put that in context the current (or outgoing) Roadster develops Max Torque 380Nm (280lb/ft) but does not do so across such a wide range. The GDI Plus 4 develops Max Torque 201 Nm (148 lb/ft), again only at high RPM.

Last edited by Gambalunga; 25/04/19 04:35 PM.

Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: Gambalunga] #573688
25/04/19 07:09 PM
25/04/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 415
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
Learner Plates Off!
MDS61  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 415
Shropshire
Is there a market for taking an old Plus Four worth £25kish and updating it with a 4 pot turbo (plus brakes, suspension and chassis tweaks) and having a great car for £32kish...blowing most things on the road into the weeds? cheers


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 - "Seve"
Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: MDS61] #573704
25/04/19 09:00 PM
25/04/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,892
Cologne, Germany
Heinz Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Heinz  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,892
Cologne, Germany
If it is legally feasible in the UK I see an interesting market here. Buy a Plus 4 Duratec from about 2005 if possible with an engine failure to drop the price even more (which is unlikely due to the robust engines and the often low mileage). Anyway it should be possible and result in a cool car.

Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: griffo] #573705
25/04/19 09:05 PM
25/04/19 09:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 11,429
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
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Posts: 11,429
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Quote:
Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

Doing it when no one is looking would definitly be best in Italy. And honestly you would never get it past the Department of Motorizzazione (the Italian equivalent of the DVLA). This is one area where the UK has a long and liberal tradition.

Here the red tape, engineers certificates and the bureaucracy would block you at every move.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: griffo] #573708
25/04/19 09:14 PM
25/04/19 09:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,892
Cologne, Germany
Heinz Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Heinz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,892
Cologne, Germany
A morgan has the big advantage of being a morgan. With a Morgan I would risk the engine conversion because hardly anyone knows about it. The car is so exotic that it enjoys great levels of freedom. Even my exhaust manifold would not be considered doubtful in a traffic control. It can also be a little louder.

All these changes on a VW Polo and the young owner would have problems immediately.

Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: Gambalunga] #573719
25/04/19 11:04 PM
25/04/19 11:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 209
West Dorset
R
rid967 Offline
L - Learner Plates On
rid967  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 209
West Dorset
[quote=Gambalunga]Perhaps the 185 kW (248 hp) version would be more realistic. 350 N⋅m (258 lb⋅ft)at 1,450–4,800 rpm would be more than enough and you would need some difference in both performance and price when compared to the Plus 6.

Agree entirely. This would be, in my opinion, the ideal modern Morgan and a worthy continuation of the heritage allied to sensible compliance with the tightening regulatory environment.
Cheque book at the ready for deposit!


3.7 Roadster
Porsche 964 C2
JCW Mini Cooper S Cab
BMW 1200 GS
+4 4 1995-2002 / LM 62 +8 2002-07
Re: Turbo Plus 4 Plus -- final report [Re: Gambalunga] #575672
08/05/19 08:29 AM
08/05/19 08:29 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,179
Reading
A11OGE Offline
Part of the Furniture
A11OGE  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,179
Reading
I have just quoted this to my son this morning. We both agree.
Quote:
Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

This could be the quote of the day.

as is "“Worrying is like sitting in a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn’t get you anywhere. “ Erma Bombeck, 1927–1996.


Steve A11OGE Red 1989 4/4 4 seater

'A Morgan is for life, not just for Sundays'
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