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The Plus Six road ahead... #591573
24/08/19 09:26 PM
24/08/19 09:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 330
P
pete757 Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!
pete757  Offline OP
Learner Plates Off!
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 330
Given the obvious success and positive reviews that the new Plus Six is getting, I think the days of the 'Trad' chassis are numbered... The dynamics of the CX now allow a 'mainstream' Morgan to end up in really strong comparison reviews like this...

Options...

1. Maybe just a single 'trad' offering with the original ladder chassis (perhaps a Plus 4 with a 3 cylinder turbo?/or hybrid?)

2. And more model's based on the new 'CX' chassis... a bit like Lotus did with the Elise 'tub' and then the larger 'Evora' (I wonder where the 'Aero' chassis will now end up?)

3. Or no trad chassis and another narrower derivative of CX...

4. An electric CX or other version must happen as well

I will be interested to see where all this ends up in the next 5 years!


Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591582
24/08/19 10:06 PM
24/08/19 10:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,093
Köln, Germany
Heinz Offline
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,093
Köln, Germany
Option 1 would be nice in terms of heritage but I don't believe it because MMC is focused on the new CX Cassis only, and all work steps and logistics are aligned with it. As sad as it is, I think MMC can't produce two cars that are so differently manufactured in the long run. But it is better to reach new target groups with new cars than to disappear together with old cars. Don't get me wrong, I love my 4/4, but I don't think that new customers want to lubricate the axle every 2000 km, neither by themselves nor by a garage.

For me, your point 2 and point 3 are almost identical. It will probably result in point 3. Hopefully at reasonable prices. Regarding the Aero chassis, what else would you need it for? And as you can hear everywhere, it was only half as stiff as CX but it was intended to be stiff 20 years ago. It's an old former modern chassis. It has nothing to do with the classic and at that time necessary ladder flexible frame of the Trad.
In addition the Aero chassis was designed for V8, but there won't be any more. Only big brands can afford to sell a V8, but only because they can offer economical models or electric carts in the whole fleet.

For all the reasons I've just listed myself, I should finally be making my first factory tour very soon to experience how the Trad is made before it is over.

Sorry I didn't pay enough attention to your first sentence. I don't think a "mainstream" Morgan is the solution if it were styled boringly. I think that on the CX chassis there will be a very smart and unconventional but attractively different shape which will be „Morgan“ like.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591586
24/08/19 10:45 PM
24/08/19 10:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,914
Devonshire
+8Rich Online content
Member of the Inner Circle
+8Rich  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,914
Devonshire
Well MMC have already said that 2 and 4 will happen and 1 will happen but for a limited time frame if I recall correctly.

3 I can't see them investing yet more on another chassis for a while mostly due to 2.

The old Aero chassis I would say has timed out as the CX would appear to outperform it.

We shall see what happens, but the good road reports the CX is receiving will do them a power of good and attract a different customer base which was the whole point of the exercise one imagines to placate the new investors for them it's only about the money.

The pistonheads comparison with the F type is an inspired and lucky one for MMC I would say as far as trying to change your customer base goes.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green
1994 Connaught Green +8





Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591615
25/08/19 07:09 AM
25/08/19 07:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 600
North of Stamford, UK
H
HeadlessBlue Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
HeadlessBlue  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
H

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 600
North of Stamford, UK
All v good points Pete.
To a certain degree I guess I could have been the type of person the Plus 6 was aimed at. Nothing to do with ego, actually the complete opposite (unfortunately for me)..
I was always attracted to Morgan primarily due to a combination of looks and the fact it was hand built in the UK - it felt traditional in a very digital world.
The vast majority of posters on TM appear to be very technically minded and capable of fettling and know their way around a car engine. I’m ashamed to say I am clueless, in part due to the fact I always broke things when I tried to sort/fix them (it’s been a long standing family joke). I wish that wasn’t the case and am envious of those more capable in this area. Nonetheless it means that I’m not interested in a Morgan because I want to personally change half of it. Thinking about it, I sort of love the idea of a modern, comfortable car that retains the first two elements of my requirements mentioned above ie looks and hand made in UK. The other key aspect is that I want something that Lady HB not only WANTS to be a passenger in (because it’s comfy), but also wants to drive. This means, for her at least, the Plus 6 ticks all of the boxes for her. Thus I must consider my options carefully as her happiness is v v important to me (no she doesn’t read TM)....
I am torn however, because now I have a trad I love it. I have done over 4000 miles in less than 5 months (and I’m limited at present to 5000 in 12 months ref insurance). I love the effort, I love the bumping through poor suspension,I love the inability to see out of any mirror because it makes it hard work, I love the effort to drive a manual car (my tintop is auto partly due to v poor joints/back), I have even developed a v loud rattle yesterday when accelerating in third and fourth so I feel part of the “gang with something wrong “. I don’t care about that or the leaking (even when not raining 😇). It has got under my skin. I would still get the comments and waves and smiles and looks if I was in a Plus 6 (I emphasise that isn’t why I want a Morgan though coz despite appearances on TM I hate attention and am a miserable bugger in real life to talk to).
The point I’m trying to make in a v long winded way, is that I wonder if Morgan recognise that there are more people like me or Lady HB who love the looks but would appreciate perhaps one or two of the more modern aspects of cars today.
As you say, it really will be interesting to see how things move in the years to come. I wonder if we’ll see over the coming years on TM more people like me who are utterly technically incapable but utterly besotted with the car and what it represents....
HB

Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591622
25/08/19 07:42 AM
25/08/19 07:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 34
Aberdeenshire
Gordon D Offline
Just Getting Started
Gordon D  Offline
Just Getting Started

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 34
Aberdeenshire
HB, I'm with you on that one 100%. I'd order one tomorrow if I had the money and I've not even seen one in the flesh.
Still keep the plus 4 of course.


Gordon Duguid
Owner of bespoke joinery business
2013 plus 4, Montreal blue.
Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591639
25/08/19 09:06 AM
25/08/19 09:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,189
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,189
Hampshire
I think you raise a good point HB, the Morgan experience is as much related to actually having to drive the car (Trad) as many people have said in the past. Or we might all buy a Mitsuoka Roadster for a quiet life. Before you click on the link just remember I did warn you! https://www.mitsuoka-motor.co.uk/roadster/

Its the looks
Its the driving experience
Its the made in a factory by real people you can see
Its the imperfection, I have enough washing machines (to a degree)
Its the smiles it generates around it when out and about

I hope they don't put the trad on the CX chassis as you suddenly drop a number of benefits above. I can see them doing a Plus4/CX or even a Plus3/CX for emissions and remote market accessibility but not to the detriment of a Trad. I can't see them doing that given the Trad remains such a big part of the revenue and ethos. Perhaps bringing it more up to date with options such as Suplex and other things into the factory options so it does not scare a younger generation who don't understand it. I cannot see how the CX chassis could be made and sold at the same price as a Trad even with a smaller/cheaper modern efficient 3-pot engine. The engine price gap is not enough to drop the Plus6 down to trad levels.

I think the Plus6/4/3 brings a different customer as it brings the Trad style to a more dynamic driving experience as the Aero (trad) did. I did not gel with the Trad driving experience but loved the off-beat nature of the Aero and Coupe like nothing else. Well nothing I could afford like a real Aston Martin V8OI or PoW model.

It will be interesting to see the other body options, I still quite liked the idea behind the EvaGT. An updated version of that could move a few units I suspect. Having a slightly practical Coupe has meant being able to use it more often than the S2. Airport runs with US Management. Is there room for an S6/CX when the Trad body Plus6 does the open top rocket, I don't there is but I do think there is a gap for a hard top of some sort like the Max was to the S4. Now an AeroMax/CX is something that could damage my wallet but that would be naughty so I guess we will not see that.

They have made some good bets in the last few years. I look forward to the next one. EvaGT/CX with a V12.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: Alistair] #591643
25/08/19 09:29 AM
25/08/19 09:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,613
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
Salty Sea Dog
Graham, G4FUJ  Offline
Salty Sea Dog
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 22,613
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Suplex front suspension is an MMC option on the trad chassis (although I think it has a different name) smile

Last edited by Graham, G4FUJ; 25/08/19 09:29 AM. Reason: Missing word(s)

Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'07 MINI Cooper
Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591644
25/08/19 09:30 AM
25/08/19 09:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,668
norfolk, UK
L
lowebird Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
lowebird  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
L

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,668
norfolk, UK
All this talk of chassis from you real experts reminded me that the Aero chassis was actual designed in part by Jim Randle of Jaguar fame for the still born revival of the Lea Francis. Morgan then took the cha sis on board and the rest is history.


Here for a good time not a long time!!
Reg
Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591652
25/08/19 10:04 AM
25/08/19 10:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,627
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,627
Salisbury, UK
My prediction:
1. A new Aero Six on the chassis, possibly with electric support, to give more performance: the body will take the LIFE car and Series 5 design flavour, but be even more avant guard.
2. A Plus Four, with a BMW 2.0L Turbo, or the 3 pot as below as a full plug in hybrid.
3. A Plus Three, with the Mini 3 pot turbo.
4. A full electric version.

There is always the possible return of the Plus Eight, with the twin turbo V8. That would be mental, 553 bhp.... really? Traction control would be vital and how many would they sell? Not enough to make it viable.

Given MMCs production capacity the 3 and the 6 make most sense, with the Plus 4 as a PHEV, together that would slash their overall emissions.


Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8


Re: The Plus Six road ahead... [Re: pete757] #591659
25/08/19 11:05 AM
25/08/19 11:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,713
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,713
South Yorkshire
All I would like to see is a Plus Four with around 225bhp, manual box and spare wheel.

Our Polo GTI with (I think) 189bhp in a reasonably light shell is a rocket, so that Plus Four would do the business. If they kept it under £60k with bells and whistles it would be seriously tempting.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4
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