Click here to return to the home page.
Image of a road.
Who's Online Now
20 registered members (jimmyw, MOR404, paulmog, John V6, PaulJ, RBW, peterd, HJP, kar120c, Håkan Carlsson, Bluebricked, James B W, griffo, DJC, M3W55, Hamwich, nick w, MarioCP, Malcolm T, Craig Jezz), 138 guests, and 15 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
+8Rich 275
John V6 110
DaveW 102
Newest Topics
Steering wheel support
by atalante83. 23/10/19 04:17 PM
Best rust covering paint ?
by IvorMog. 23/10/19 11:53 AM
King pin greasing
by Carrotious. 23/10/19 11:29 AM
S1 Digital mileometer - help please
by gmcn. 23/10/19 10:16 AM
A Single Seater?
by Jon G4LJW. 23/10/19 08:09 AM
Visit to Heritage Museum at RAF Scampton
by DaveW. 22/10/19 08:59 PM
AMG...has lost the plot?
by MDS61. 22/10/19 07:57 PM
Latest Photos
Sport Blue
Le Mans Classic 2017 pics
Denis
Autumn Sunshine
TURBO TRAD..?
Newest Members
Hare, David Almond, AMD, Hendyboy, Jays ex Nero
6732 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics36,449
Posts588,462
Members6,732
Most Online569
Sep 8th, 2019
Today's Birthdays
SCHNEGG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: +8Rich] #594533
11/09/19 09:28 AM
11/09/19 09:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 11,867
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 11,867
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
I am not a great fan of derailleur gears. I am quite pleased that our e-bikes use the Enviolo Nuvinci system.



Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: +8Rich] #594540
11/09/19 10:15 AM
11/09/19 10:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 9
V
Vicar Offline
New to Talk Morgan
Vicar  Offline
New to Talk Morgan
V

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 9
Hi, I have just acquired a Rayvolt Cruzer (google it)
:-)

Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: +8Rich] #594581
11/09/19 02:17 PM
11/09/19 02:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,653
West Paris, France
pandy Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
pandy  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,653
West Paris, France
I think the Ruffian and the Revolt look better not having a fake motor.

TBH I'd feel rather ridiculous riding a bike with a fake motor on it.

Last edited by pandy; 11/09/19 02:17 PM.

Giles. Mogless in Paris.
Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: +8Rich] #594670
12/09/19 12:42 AM
12/09/19 12:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,578
Wales
T
Taffmog Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Taffmog  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
T

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,578
Wales
But if it had a loudspeaker emitting authentic noises? 🤔

Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: Gambalunga] #594676
12/09/19 03:16 AM
12/09/19 03:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 111
C
ChrisConvertible Offline
L - Learner Plates On
ChrisConvertible  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
C

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
I am not a great fan of derailleur gears. I am quite pleased that our e-bikes use the Enviolo Nuvinci system.



That is an interesting new gear system. I wonder where its efficiency and weight fits in compared to other planet gear systems like the Rohloff or Shimano Planet systems. It looks more like a CVT gearbox than a planet gearbox.

It does lack the range of the others, it is 380%, compared to Shimano planet gears at 409% and Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 with 526%. But the interesting thing is my old mountain bike had a range of 655% and my new one only 500% as manufacturers are changing derailleur systems for less range by having less front chain rings while planet systems like Rohloff have increased their range.

The specs don't show the weight, so can't compare it to the others, the Shimano planet gears hub weighs 1665grams, Rohloff weighs 1958g. That is just the hub, you still need brakes, pedals, cranks etc. The group set on my road bike (derailleurs, hubs, crank set, brakes and shifters) weighs 1741g for everything. (The whole bike is only 7kg)

Also comparing efficiency generally a clean well setup derailleur is 98% compared to between 85% and 95% for a planet gear system depending on which gear they are in. Having said that I expect most derailleur bikes in peoples sheds are probably only 80% efficient due to no maintenance.

I see the main disadvantage of derailleurs gears is the maintenance required and adjusting is not as simple as people think. I certainly would recommend planet style gears to anyone who doesn't enjoy cleaning and adjusting mechanical things. My dad took his bike to a shop for a tuneup and was complaining to me it still feels odd changing gears. I have a jig that can check the straightness of a derailleur, I used it on his bike which showed it was off so I adjusted it and he said the difference was like chalk and cheese. I bought it from a bike shop and all good shops should have one, they are just too lazy to use it.

Here is a link to a new setup that is supposed to be 99% efficient. https://newatlas.com/ceramicspeed-driven-shaft-drive/55364/

I am happy with derailleurs but then I have all the special tools to fix them and the knowledge, plus happy to spend an hour or so each week cleaning and adjusting my bikes to perfection. But I do think the days of the derailleur are limited with new systems being developed all the time.

Plus really most people just want to ride and not play with bikes, just like most people want to drive cars and not fettle with them. All my friend have black rims because they look cleaner with no work where I have polished aluminium that I polish up to look nice, but I expect a lot of people on this forum will understand cleaning mechanical things just to see their face in it smile

[Linked Image]

Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: Gambalunga] #594687
12/09/19 07:55 AM
12/09/19 07:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,276
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,276
Hampshire
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
I am not a great fan of derailleur gears. I am quite pleased that our e-bikes use the Enviolo Nuvinci system.



I had always wondered how some of the CVT stuffed worked and that is an excellent video explaining it. I imagine the car CVT's are different due to torque load?
Thanks for sharing that.

I must admit I have been waiting for the electric cars to have start to offer more than one gear. Given the peak torque is at low RPM I expected that they would be more efficient in that range and so the vendors would want to keep them operating in that space. Is it a trade off between simplicity and also being able to handle the torque load ?
Are they more efficient or did I make a false assumption ? (again)

Last edited by Alistair; 12/09/19 07:55 AM.

Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: +8Rich] #594713
12/09/19 09:35 AM
12/09/19 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 111
C
ChrisConvertible Offline
L - Learner Plates On
ChrisConvertible  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
C

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 111
You might be right but then this car never reached production.

http://www.morgan-motor.com/mmc/carrange/pluse/plusemorgan.html#!prettyPhoto/0/

Maybe an electric Morgan in the future will be nothing like this but click on the description and there are a few important sentences I have copied.

“We wanted to see how much fun you can have in an electric sportscar, so we have built one to help us find out,” explained Morgan operations director Steve Morris. “The Plus E combines Morgan’s traditional look with high-technology construction and a powertrain that delivers substantial torque instantly at any speed. With the manual gearbox to increase both touring range and driver involvement, it will be a fantastic car to drive.”

When the clutch pedal is pressed, electronic controls automatically match motor revs to the output shaft speed to ensure a perfect change.

“A multi-speed transmission allows the motor to spend more time operating in its sweet spot, where it uses energy more efficiently, particularly at high road speeds,” explained Zytek Automotive managing director Neil Heslington. “It also allows us to provide lower gearing for rapid acceleration and will make the car more engaging for keen drivers.”

The programme will deliver two engineering concept vehicles. The first, with the five-speed manual box and Liion batteries, will be used for preliminary engineering assessment while the second will be closer to potential production specification, with alternative battery technologies and possibly a sequential gearbox.

I like the first and third but not the second and fourth. Maybe I am odd but I think one of the greatest joys driving a car is a nice toe and heel downshift that matched revs perfectly that I did rather than some computer. So I don't want sequential and I don't want electronic controls automatically matching motor revs. If I get it wrong I don't want it hidden, if getting it wrong is not obviously bad what is the satisfaction of doing a perfect toe and heel change yourself?

I have been told a Morgan is uncompromising and you change your driving style to suit it, surely that is the charm?

Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: Alistair] #594753
12/09/19 01:50 PM
12/09/19 01:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,489
Renfrewshire
BobtheTrain Offline
Charter Member
BobtheTrain  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,489
Renfrewshire
Originally Posted by Alistair
I imagine the car CVT's are different due to torque load?

Is that what a DAF had?


Best Regards
Lang may yer lum reek
Re: Vintage look Electric motorbike/cycle [Re: Alistair] #594766
12/09/19 02:50 PM
12/09/19 02:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 11,867
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 11,867
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted by Alistair
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
I am not a great fan of derailleur gears. I am quite pleased that our e-bikes use the Enviolo Nuvinci system.



I had always wondered how some of the CVT stuffed worked and that is an excellent video explaining it. I imagine the car CVT's are different due to torque load?
Thanks for sharing that.

I must admit I have been waiting for the electric cars to have start to offer more than one gear. Given the peak torque is at low RPM I expected that they would be more efficient in that range and so the vendors would want to keep them operating in that space. Is it a trade off between simplicity and also being able to handle the torque load ?
Are they more efficient or did I make a false assumption ? (again)

Here is a video which gives a more in depth explanation and shows that you can also get reverse.



According to the manufacturers electric vehicles are one of their target markets.
https://www.fallbrooktech.com/nuvinci-technology/


Peter

[Linked Image]
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Aeroman, Simon 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1