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The future of the Trad. #594876
13/09/19 11:11 AM
13/09/19 11:11 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,118
London and Hertfordshire, UK
Quicksilver Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
Quicksilver  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,118
London and Hertfordshire, UK
Since getting back into Morgans after a hiatus of a few years, it seems there is more uncertainty around the future of the Traditional Morgan. I can sense the buzz and excitement around new models, such as the Plus 6, which looks a terrific car but I have to say is not for me - its not what I would call a "Trad" - and my love is for the traditional Morgan, with all its characteristic handling foibles.Obviously the management and ownership changes at Morgan also cause anxiety.

I had a taste of this uncertainty last week when I called my dealer and was told that the future of the Roadster was in doubt as it was possible that the 3.7 Cyclone engine might not pass emissions tests. Fortunately, when I called yesterday to put my deposit down for a new Roadster build they said that the future looked brighter as the 3.7 has passed emissions and the factory has a large batch of engines waiting to go into cars. I was offered a November/December build slot but I have requested a March 2020 one which suits me better. However, I had the feeling that if the 3.7 had failed emissions, Morgan were not too bothered about looking for a replacement engine and would prefer to steer Roadster purchasers into a more expensive Plus 6.

I'm happy for all the new Morgans that are being developed and marketed and anything that increases the buzz around Morgan is a good thing. But is it possible that Morgan will kill the goose that laid the golden egg and tail of production of the Trad's? Perhaps they no longer see the Trad as a a "golden goose" but as a millstone around their necks? Hope I'm wrong in this and just being overly sensitive.


David
2020 Roadster 3.7 Dove Grey.
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #594883
13/09/19 11:49 AM
13/09/19 11:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,169
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
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Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,169
South Yorkshire
Well, it would be a foolish company who chose not to produce a product for which there is a continuing demand.

But Car manufacturers are different and routinely replace models which sell well, for facelifts and upgrades, and new platforms.

It's a matter of volumes, and engine availability. In theory, in future MMC, or another company, could sell a rolling completed car to which you fit your own engine and gearbox, preconfigured for Ford...…..

I hope the Trad prevails, even if the numbers are small. The backbone of Morgan owners favour the simplicity of the trad, but there are enough around to satisfy demand, even if they are no longer available new.

If the end comes, then I expect a big limited last edition announcement, like we had with the Aero Plus 8.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #594886
13/09/19 12:15 PM
13/09/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
Köln Germany
...or there is no final edition and it will be a very quiet exit through the back door with the Trads so that the public is not shaken up. And people shouldn't get the feeling that MMC is ending a long tradition (but that' s true, I say this without any judgement) and that the new models are just the logical continuity.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #594887
13/09/19 12:34 PM
13/09/19 12:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10,995
Lancashire, England
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Stewart S  Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10,995
Lancashire, England
I think it will all depend on profit margin and regulations

I can’t see a new 4/4 on the new CX platform getting down to £40K or even £45K for the current base price of a Plus 4

And being able to provide and sell a Morgan at £45K as opposed to a PlusSix at £80K puts Morgan ownership available to a massively wider market

If the trad is still even vaguely profitable for Morgan and it can be sold into a few European markets as it is within legislation then why kill it off


2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #594889
13/09/19 12:39 PM
13/09/19 12:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10,995
Lancashire, England
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Stewart S  Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10,995
Lancashire, England
Having said all that if you’ve been on the MMC News webpage recently, you would think MMC sell more pushbikes than cars


2008 Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #594891
13/09/19 12:55 PM
13/09/19 12:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,343
Somerset, UK
P
PaulJ Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
PaulJ  Offline
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P

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,343
Somerset, UK
I feel that MMC are running slightly behind but on a parallel path to Land Rover, who for various reason have now ditched the Defender which started their fortunes and moved considerably upmarket with the most recent iteration, which is not really in the same segment at all, in spite of its' name.

This is possibly the way that Morgan will go to, especially under new management who will be even more profit led, as they now have to make a return on their investment.


Paul
[Beginning to get the best out of the ARP4]
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: PaulJ] #594903
13/09/19 01:53 PM
13/09/19 01:53 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,118
London and Hertfordshire, UK
Quicksilver Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
Quicksilver  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,118
London and Hertfordshire, UK
Originally Posted by PaulJ
I feel that MMC are running slightly behind but on a parallel path to Land Rover, who for various reason have now ditched the Defender which started their fortunes and moved considerably upmarket with the most recent iteration, which is not really in the same segment at all, in spite of its' name.

This is possibly the way that Morgan will go to, especially under new management who will be even more profit led, as they now have to make a return on their investment.


I must say things felt better when Charles was in control - at least from an enthusiast's point of view. I feel he got the balance right - looking at new platforms to take the brand forward, maintaining commitment to the trad's and re-introducing that original trad, the three-wheeler. Its true that so far that formula is still being followed, but the new investors bring a great deal of uncertainty into the mix. They will want a profitable return and that could take the company in new directions.

I wonder what Peter Morgan would have thought ?


David
2020 Roadster 3.7 Dove Grey.
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #594910
13/09/19 02:22 PM
13/09/19 02:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,685
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
CooperMan  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,685
Yorkshire
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
Since getting back into Morgans after a hiatus of a few years, it seems there is more uncertainty around the future of the Traditional Morgan. I can sense the buzz and excitement around new models, such as the Plus 6, which looks a terrific car but I have to say is not for me - its not what I would call a "Trad" - and my love is for the traditional Morgan, with all its characteristic handling foibles.Obviously the management and ownership changes at Morgan also cause anxiety.

I had a taste of this uncertainty last week when I called my dealer and was told that the future of the Roadster was in doubt as it was possible that the 3.7 Cyclone engine might not pass emissions tests. Fortunately, when I called yesterday to put my deposit down for a new Roadster build they said that the future looked brighter as the 3.7 has passed emissions and the factory has a large batch of engines waiting to go into cars. I was offered a November/December build slot but I have requested a March 2020 one which suits me better. However, I had the feeling that if the 3.7 had failed emissions, Morgan were not too bothered about looking for a replacement engine and would prefer to steer Roadster purchasers into a more expensive Plus 6.

I'm happy for all the new Morgans that are being developed and marketed and anything that increases the buzz around Morgan is a good thing. But is it possible that Morgan will kill the goose that laid the golden egg and tail of production of the Trad's? Perhaps they no longer see the Trad as a a "golden goose" but as a millstone around their necks? Hope I'm wrong in this and just being overly sensitive.



David, congrats on the new order - just one thing to be aware of that slightly caught me out when I delayed mine, MMC tend to release the new price list / increase just after the Geneva show

I don't know what sort of deal you've struck but sometimes the small print will be 'prices ruling at date of dispatch' type clause, which for you could be after Geneva (March + 4 weeks build + dispatch to dealer + PDI = mid May ?)


Jon M
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #594917
13/09/19 02:59 PM
13/09/19 02:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 685
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
MDS61  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 685
Shropshire
I think by this time next year...the trad will be no more. Everything has a time line and no room for sentiments in business!

I suspect that the new metric Morgan, maybe cheaper to build/produce?

I do see other engines in the metric chassis though, as the advert says "why wouldn't you!"

With the metric Morgans I would have a range of engines i.e.:

A 1 litre 3 cylinder petrol/turbo engine with circa 125 BHP
A 2 litre 4 cylinder petrol/turbo engine with circa 180 BHP
A 2 litre 4 cylinder petrol/turbo engine with circa 230 BHP
The current 3 litre
AND
A 3 litre 6 cylinder petrol/turbo engine with circa 420 BHP love

"why wouldn't you!" somestick


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 - "Seve"

Mark
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: CooperMan] #594918
13/09/19 03:05 PM
13/09/19 03:05 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,118
London and Hertfordshire, UK
Quicksilver Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
Quicksilver  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,118
London and Hertfordshire, UK
Originally Posted by CooperMan
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
Since getting back into Morgans after a hiatus of a few years, it seems there is more uncertainty around the future of the Traditional Morgan. I can sense the buzz and excitement around new models, such as the Plus 6, which looks a terrific car but I have to say is not for me - its not what I would call a "Trad" - and my love is for the traditional Morgan, with all its characteristic handling foibles.Obviously the management and ownership changes at Morgan also cause anxiety.

I had a taste of this uncertainty last week when I called my dealer and was told that the future of the Roadster was in doubt as it was possible that the 3.7 Cyclone engine might not pass emissions tests. Fortunately, when I called yesterday to put my deposit down for a new Roadster build they said that the future looked brighter as the 3.7 has passed emissions and the factory has a large batch of engines waiting to go into cars. I was offered a November/December build slot but I have requested a March 2020 one which suits me better. However, I had the feeling that if the 3.7 had failed emissions, Morgan were not too bothered about looking for a replacement engine and would prefer to steer Roadster purchasers into a more expensive Plus 6.

I'm happy for all the new Morgans that are being developed and marketed and anything that increases the buzz around Morgan is a good thing. But is it possible that Morgan will kill the goose that laid the golden egg and tail of production of the Trad's? Perhaps they no longer see the Trad as a a "golden goose" but as a millstone around their necks? Hope I'm wrong in this and just being overly sensitive.



David, congrats on the new order - just one thing to be aware of that slightly caught me out when I delayed mine, MMC tend to release the new price list / increase just after the Geneva show

I don't know what sort of deal you've struck but sometimes the small print will be 'prices ruling at date of dispatch' type clause, which for you could be after Geneva (March + 4 weeks build + dispatch to dealer + PDI = mid May ?)


Thanks CooperMan - you're right and I remember I had a similar issue with my first roadster order which went into build in the Spring of 2013.Perhaps I will see if I can bring my date forward about one month.


David
2020 Roadster 3.7 Dove Grey.
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