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Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: MDS61] #595004
14/09/19 08:13 AM
14/09/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,494
Petersfield, Hampshire, UK
Ian Wegg Offline
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Ian Wegg  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,494
Petersfield, Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted by MDS61
Everything has a time line and no room for sentiments in business!

Surely Morgan is a living demonstration of that not being true.


1980 Royal Ivory 4/4 4-seater. B4771
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Ian Wegg] #595017
14/09/19 10:26 AM
14/09/19 10:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,419
Köln Germany
Heinz Online content
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Online Content
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,419
Köln Germany
Originally Posted by Ian Wegg
Originally Posted by MDS61
Everything has a time line and no room for sentiments in business!

Surely Morgan is a living demonstration of that not being true.


+1
at least if we consider the last 60 years or even more which are eons in the world of car industries.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #595024
14/09/19 10:48 AM
14/09/19 10:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,978
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 11,978
Salisbury, UK
Lotus moved on from the 7, but recognising there was a demand, licensed the design to Caterham, who carried on evolving the 7.
It would be a smart move for MMC to licence the 4/4 to a third party to build and to support all the existing 4/4s.
Or, using Aero Racing, they could do it themselves.


Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8


Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Ian Wegg] #595041
14/09/19 01:38 PM
14/09/19 01:38 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,074
Hertfordshire, UK
Quicksilver Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!
Quicksilver  Offline OP
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,074
Hertfordshire, UK
Originally Posted by Ian Wegg
Originally Posted by MDS61
Everything has a time line and no room for sentiments in business!

Surely Morgan is a living demonstration of that not being true.


+2

I feel that Morgan has been sentimental in many of its decisions it has taken and in the long term that has been good for business and has generated a devoted following for the brand. If they abandon the Trad then I would say Morgan has decided to move exclusively upmarket and in the long term I don’t think that will turn out well for them. Keeping the Trads and developing up market platforms that riff on the Trad would seem a sound tactic and will bring them the best of both worlds.


David
Roadster 3.7, Sport Black with Saddle Brown Trim.
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #595094
14/09/19 09:40 PM
14/09/19 09:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 543
L
Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 543
I have zero idea of who might want to buy a new z chassis Trad these days..? I suspect there may ever be Trad Morgans available second hand from old wrecks to garage queens, and perhaps their availability will grow in time as those of us who own them loose our grip on the perch..?

Of course if there are those fired up with enthusiasm for a Trad, I am sure that there will be restorers a plenty out there who could restore/recreate a Trad to a better extent than any that might have left the factory..?

As for new buyers I do wonder what they think they are buying into... Having spent a few years reading of ...err..mature folks finally getting round to buying a Morgan after time spent in BMW, Jag or Merc or even Ford (-: saloons, and having become well used to the build quality, comforts and after sales service such manufacturers provide, it seems some can be quite shocked by a variety of aspects that are/were discovered to be the reality of their Morgan ownership....?

I have read of individuals spending much time, money and effort trying to un-Morgan their Morgan..(-: Be it changing suspension trying to make it more comfortable, or seeking to get more power from an ancient engine, I even read where a different engine was installed REDUCING ground clearance and a tube installed to save the sump..!!!!!! Jeez there are and always have been plenty of folk out there who think they can do a better job than Morgan, and some of them perhaps could, and did, which is just fine if you are buying an inexpensive car in which you fully understand the design concept behind it`s construction, which was perhaps based on a fundamental package for possible "customer improvement." I fully expect that line of thought was perhaps acceptable for the more self reliant Morganeer that existed in the fifties and perhaps on into the sixties, dwindling somewhat in the UK until the classic car scene took off, attracting UK buyers back to the products that Morgan had on offer, all be it with disc brakes more modern engines gear boxes and diffs.... ?

I have looked at the early attempts to modernise Morgan with a bodywork makeover involving fibreglass on the antiquated underpinnings.. A bit like the attempt of Porsche to replace the 911 with the 928 as has been mentioned elsewhere.. though the engineering and budget were slightly different..the marque enthusiasts perhaps thought alike..? Unsure of the MMC linkage with Rob Wells when he created ROB 80 R which looked TRAD but sported improved front wishbone suspension, supercharged (?) engine new gearbox etc.etc.etc.... When change has been tried and perhaps failed to work out as hoped, I suspect it takes the confidence of new blood to take the next step and perhaps Charles tried that to some degree..?

As for the priorities of the new "young" potential buyers... I have not got a clue.

I fear when we live in litigious times where expectations of customers has increased exponentially in all areas, to the extent that those with perhaps known and life threatening food allergies rely on poorly paid restaurant staff to prepare and serve.. fast food.. that will hopefully not contain this that or the other to the customers very specific requirements... I am unsure that I would risk my life to a fast food outlet if I was unfortunate enough to suffer any such issues..

The trad Morgan has long carried with it risks that other vehicles of the same model year do not, based on the ever changing construction and use regs, which it seems some small volume manufacturers were/are (?) able to work around, though it seems to be an increasingly risky business to maintain that modus operandi, given the volumes of traffic on roads today. I have no idea of the crash testing methods employed to determine how safe or otherwise any Morgan might be but I suspect a trad would fall short of the average Euro-box in some situations... Seems to me that Morganeers are prepared to take risks on board....up to a point..but where that point may be..I have no idea.. But Morgan are not alone, given Caterham and others offer little protection and some in very high performance packages ..I think former m/cyclists Sailors, mountain climbers and others who indulge in ...err... less than cosseted pastimes, may have different risk management perceptions... Dunno for sure..?

Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #595160
15/09/19 12:41 PM
15/09/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 122
P
PHZI Offline
L - Learner Plates On
PHZI  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
P

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 122
Such a mixture of factors. Car manufacturers only make new cars not used so have to try and anticipate the future buyers demographic/needs. There will always be a demand for used trads of all vintages. Future influences? Technical/legislative requirements, buying demographic, prices. Morgan has had to develop new models to stay afloat. Imaginei if they had frozen deveopment in time, pick a date; mid eighties, mid nineties? Morgan would not be here now.

Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: PHZI] #595168
15/09/19 02:03 PM
15/09/19 02:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,400
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,400
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Other than mechanicals and relatively small changes in suspension and steering not much has changed since the '50s. Whilst I am relatively happy with the car that I have I was quite disappointed with some aspects of the car in the first year that I had it and was very critical of the antique chassis and suspension. I am one of those who spent quite a bit of money to bring the car just a little bit up to date. All things considered, if we take seven year's of inflation into consideration, the car has cost me almost as much as the Plus Six costs today and probably no more than the new CX Plus 4 which will certainly be announced in the near future.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #595172
15/09/19 02:38 PM
15/09/19 02:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,334
Somerset, UK
P
PaulJ Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
PaulJ  Offline
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P

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,334
Somerset, UK
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, as far as I can see, is where new buyers are coming from? I don't see todays millennials being attracted to the quaintness that is the trad. Unchanged in basic design for 50 - 60 years, that appeals to us baby boomers who cut their teeth on cars like this, but not later generations. My son, in his mid 40's, for example sees nothing interesting in my trad. the Caterham perhaps, so Morgan are obviously aware of potential new buyers, looking at what would appeal to the next generation down and having experimented with a couple of special edition 4/4 s, remember the speedster? Only 2 made and 1 sold I believe, they have obviously decided there is no future in that market, at least not a profitable one.

The other market segment is upmarket, they have dipped their toe in the water with the Aero range and this appears to be where they are off too soon. Who can blame them, even if it means their longest serving design is allowed to die?


Paul
[Beginning to get the best out of the ARP4]
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Luddite] #595177
15/09/19 03:28 PM
15/09/19 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 383
Colorado, USA
B
britmog Offline
Learner Plates Off!
britmog  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
B

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 383
Colorado, USA
Luddite, I agree with your sentiment.

Just reading the M3W forum gives you a clear indicator of what current customers expect of a Morgan, there are new owners who knew exactly what they were buying into and within weeks become jaded. I am sure MMC will move on under the new ownership into the more exotic market of expensive niche vehicles. My concern going forward is the network of dealerships and skilled labor force who can work on the "traditional Morgans" and supply of parts.

35 years ago when I bought my first Morgan (still own it) I knew what I was buying and what lifestyle hobby I was entering into. When I bought the 2013 M3W 2 years ago I knew what I was buying and again what was going to be needed to be done to own it. As MMC move into new customer dynamics the Morgan as we know it will have to change or die.

Last edited by britmog; 15/09/19 03:29 PM.

Bruce Marshall
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: The future of the Trad. [Re: Quicksilver] #595180
15/09/19 03:59 PM
15/09/19 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,334
Somerset, UK
P
PaulJ Offline
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PaulJ  Offline
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P

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,334
Somerset, UK
To be fair, when the M3W was introduced it was appalling. Not only appalling but dangerous. I certainly didn't see much concern from MMC and I wondered how the directors slept at night with the thought that a customer could be killed due to the deficiency of the design and/or engineering.

However the market segment it opened up was more or less untapped and has been responsible for upgrades to various 4 wheelers, me amongst them.


Paul
[Beginning to get the best out of the ARP4]
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