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Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: The Austrian] #596300
23/09/19 09:52 AM
23/09/19 09:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,785
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,785
Mandello del Lario
Totally agree Giles. Not sure how the bankruptcy laws work in the UK but in some jurisdictions a creditor who is paid before the bankruptcy may be considered unfairly favoured and may have to refund the payment to eventually be re-divided amongst all the creditors, that is if anything is left after the fees and expenses of the "Official Receiver".

Payments made to directors and managers should be treated the same way. It can be hard to prove but in Australia it is an offense to trade whilst knowingly insolvent.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: The Austrian] #596302
23/09/19 09:54 AM
23/09/19 09:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,216
Suffolk
John V6 Offline
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John V6  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,216
Suffolk
I too struggle as to why I as a tax payer are paying to get people home. They should have insurance or be covered by ABTA.
I also agree on the bonuses. They should be paid back in full.


JohnV6
2006 Indigo Blue Roadster S1
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle"
Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: The Austrian] #596327
23/09/19 12:03 PM
23/09/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,888
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,888
South Yorkshire
The whole ethos of budget airlines, airport expansion and mass transport of the hoi polloi in a world of climate change is astonishing.

On the BBC news this morning, there was talk of a weeks holiday in Greece for $200, including hotel, but probably not food.

I can't comprehend the thinking behind this, but the obvious outcome is much more CO2 in the atmosphere.

Meanwhile the motorists are the scapegoats.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: John V6] #596337
23/09/19 12:51 PM
23/09/19 12:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 90
V
VinMogger Offline
Just Getting Started
VinMogger  Offline
Just Getting Started
V

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 90
Any company offering packages by air must have an ATOL (Air Travel Organiser's Licence). This is a government scheme administered by the CAA. I know for my previous career that to obtain one the company must provide evidence of the financial position. I seems that whoever approved the renewal of their ATOL is a bit like an insurance agent agreeing fire insurance for a house that is already smoking!

A bit of history, from memory I think Cooks was taken over thirty or so years ago by a German Bank (Deutsche Bank?) but obviously they subsequently sold on to venture capitalists.

And even older history, in 1841 there first travel venture was to allow the citizens of Leicester attend a sermon delivered by a noted temperance preacher. But some contemporary reports indicate that quite a few of the group did not take much notice of the sermon as they had more than the cream tea included with the ticket!

Quentin

Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: VinMogger] #596338
23/09/19 01:00 PM
23/09/19 01:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,082
West Sussex, UK
Chris99 Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Chris99  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,082
West Sussex, UK
Apparently ATOL only covers packaged holidays so if you booked a flight only then you need to check with your credit card company or travel insurance.

Re the government using Thomas Cook to repatriate holidaymakers; unfortunately as soon as they go bust they lose their Airline Operations Certificate meaning they are not able to fly anyone anywhere.


Red Leader drive
Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: VinMogger] #596340
23/09/19 01:05 PM
23/09/19 01:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,420
West Paris, France
pandy Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
pandy  Offline
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,420
West Paris, France
Originally Posted by VinMogger
there first travel venture was to allow the citizens of Leicester attend a sermon delivered by a noted temperance preacher. But some contemporary reports indicate that quite a few of the group did not take much notice of the sermon as they had more than the cream tea included with the ticket!


laugh2


Giles. Mogless in Paris.
Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: Gambalunga] #596368
23/09/19 04:37 PM
23/09/19 04:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,321
Lancashire, England
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Stewart S  Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,321
Lancashire, England
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
Totally agree Giles. Not sure how the bankruptcy laws work in the UK but in some jurisdictions a creditor who is paid before the bankruptcy may be considered unfairly favoured and may have to refund the payment to eventually be re-divided amongst all the creditors, that is if anything is left after the fees and expenses of the "Official Receiver".

Payments made to directors and managers should be treated the same way. It can be hard to prove but in Australia it is an offense to trade whilst knowingly insolvent.


It's the same over here as well but the problem is the definition of 'insolvent'. A company can be massively in debt making huge losses but if it can still pay its creditors when they are due through financing (drawing down loans on the debtor book) loans on assets or investor cash, it isn't technically insolvent.

Thats the biggest problem with loss making businesses. There are too many ways to keep them going long after there is any chance of recovery


2008 XXVII Platform, Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater
Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: Stewart S] #596370
23/09/19 04:44 PM
23/09/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,325
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Online content
Needs to Get Out More!
Hamwich  Online Content
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,325
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Stewart S

Thats the biggest problem with loss making businesses. There are too many ways to keep them going long after there is any chance of recovery


Yes. When your business owes the bank £5,000 then you have a problem. When your business owes the bank £5,000,000 then the bank has a problem.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: Hamwich] #596383
23/09/19 05:47 PM
23/09/19 05:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 13,158
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 13,158
Salisbury, UK
Another example of the "Unacceptable Face of Capitalism".
But not as odious as the unacceptable face of socialism, in my view.


Peter,
V8s are best....
Tarka the 'Otter Mog....2014 Plus 8
AMG C63 Estate.


Re: Thomas Cook bankrupt [Re: Hamwich] #596385
23/09/19 06:04 PM
23/09/19 06:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,321
Lancashire, England
Stewart S Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Stewart S  Offline
Wave & smile... It's a Morgan
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,321
Lancashire, England
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Stewart S

Thats the biggest problem with loss making businesses. There are too many ways to keep them going long after there is any chance of recovery


Yes. When your business owes the bank £5,000 then you have a problem. When your business owes the bank £5,000,000 then the bank has a problem.


Very true

I’m sure the executives of Carillion thought they were too big to be allowed to fail and the government would keep bailing them out and I wonder if Thomas Cooks execs thought the same


2008 XXVII Platform, Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater
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