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L Plate Training #599923
18/10/19 12:07 PM
18/10/19 12:07 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 183
Durham, UK
S
smudger1 Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
smudger1  Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
S

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 183
Durham, UK
Due to unavoidable circumstances I had to take my Morgan out in really heavy rain. It was a pleasant experience to witness how well behaved the Traffic on the A1M heading towards Newcastle was, no Daft Lads flooring the accelerator cutting in and then braking hard and all the other tricks commuters play at 08:30.

Personally I was driving with an egg between my right foot and the accelerator , pulling away or accelerating on slight bends and the back end was away, wet roads certainly make for a interesting driving experience in a Morgan . This made me think it would be a good idea to make L Drivers spend 1/2 an hour in torrential rain in a Plus 8, I’m sure it would heighten peoples awareness of how misleading a modern car can delude you into feeling as secure in the cars capability during adverse conditions


1999 Morgan Plus 8. 3.9 ....
1961 Alvis TD21 Series1 3 Litre Auto....
Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #599945
18/10/19 05:00 PM
18/10/19 05:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 851
East Sussex, ENGLAND
andymot Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
andymot  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 851
East Sussex, ENGLAND
A good point about learner training - not that they need a plus 8 - a humble Morris minor can teach much to the novice driver - more so on a wet roundabout. I'd not trust many learners with a plus8 however.

The point about tail happy wet handling rather highlights the need for decent tyres - not aged hard rubber versions which can be lethal once roads are wet.

Last edited by andymot; 18/10/19 05:00 PM.

2015 Morgan 4/4 (Wolf fettled) previously 2014 M3W
MINI Cooper S and numerous BMC/BL relics.

Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #599971
18/10/19 07:13 PM
18/10/19 07:13 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 183
Durham, UK
S
smudger1 Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
smudger1  Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
S

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 183
Durham, UK
You're correct about the tyres in part ,

They are new tyres but are crap! A mate recommended Toyos, they are the worst Tyre of any car i've ever had. I fill them to 26/27 psi just to stop them screeching when cornering & pulling away .Initially I thought they would bed in - no such luck. I suspect they may well be fine on a conventional car, but with only 22 psi & a very light car , they just don't have wall stiffness/rigidity to cope!

The first job next spring is to change them .

Any recommendations are welcome


1999 Morgan Plus 8. 3.9 ....
1961 Alvis TD21 Series1 3 Litre Auto....
Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #600008
19/10/19 08:55 AM
19/10/19 08:55 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,420
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Sage
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,420
Llanelli
Totally agree with teaching learners to actually control the car in varying conditions/road surfaces/road types.
There is a tendency to teach to pass the test and comments like....you pass THEN learn to drive.
Modern cars with driver aids aimed at safety also infer that the car makes your driving safer so you can take liberties plays a part too.
Too many jump into a car and off they go without fully reading the road/weather/traffic/ effect on others.
Now, to the skidding in the wet.
Earlier this month I was at a presentation by a senior airline captain about flying. Fascinating stuff. One section was weather related considerations.
So...water on the ground.
There is a limit of 5mm depth of surface water to allow taking off and landing ( unless a need to land prevents this). He showed a video of a cargo plane aquaplaning and going off the end of a runway . Scary.
For aquaplaning tyres themselves are not the main control, tread has little effect unless very low creating slick tyre conditions. Brand new full tread tyres will still aquaplane.
The critical factor is tyre pressure. The formula to calculate the upper speed limit is
Critical speed = 9x (1/6 tyre pressure)
Thus....if tyre pressure is 24psi critical speed is 36mph.
tyre pressure of 36psi gives 54mph.
Quite a revealing result!
Remember, too, that a plane on a runway travels in straight lines at significant speeds so turning at speed becomes ultra critical.
Would ABS help? Probably yes as it reduces momentarily wheel locking to allow steering back.


Red Plus8
Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #600017
19/10/19 09:46 AM
19/10/19 09:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,324
Llanelli
Ray Online content
Part of the Furniture
Ray  Online Content
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,324
Llanelli
In my opinion, there should be a compulsory 1 hour on a skid pan before being allowed to take the driving test.


.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.
Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #600018
19/10/19 09:50 AM
19/10/19 09:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,903
Seattle, USA
B
Button Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Button  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,903
Seattle, USA
Originally Posted by smudger1
You're correct about the tyres in part ,

They are new tyres but are crap! A mate recommended Toyos, they are the worst Tyre of any car i've ever had. I fill them to 26/27 psi just to stop them screeching when cornering & pulling away .Initially I thought they would bed in - no such luck. I suspect they may well be fine on a conventional car, but with only 22 psi & a very light car , they just don't have wall stiffness/rigidity to cope!

The first job next spring is to change them .

Any recommendations are welcome


Strange I just removed a set of Michelin tires because the wall was too stiff. Not compliant. However I did like them in the rain. My new tires have a softer wall but noticed that in the rain they were not as good as the Michelins. Damn if You do Damn if You don't!


Button
Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #600021
19/10/19 10:28 AM
19/10/19 10:28 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,420
Llanelli
sospan Offline
Talk Morgan Sage
sospan  Offline
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 6,420
Llanelli
I recently put Avon ZV7’s on my car. Replacing Yokohama CDrives. Couldn’t get CDrives in the right profile.
Why ZV7 ?
Three factors....
Good wet rating in the standard tests.
Several in TM have got them and like them.
Not Expensive.
So far very pleased with them but not tested in heavy rain/deep water conditions.
Before changing them and on the Yokohamas with 3mm tread left ( my absolute minimum) we were on a Taffmog run to TOTH. I fell back due to traffic lights and wanted to catch up but eased off on the M4 due to heavy rain and standing water. Kept to 50mph as above that I could feel traction loss in deeper water patches.
There is a limit to how much water a tyre can clear away to maintain contact and it reduces with tread depth. Compound composition will influence it too so without trying to be over scientific on selection I use the official tyre ratings as a guide. It is a road car after all.


Red Plus8
Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #600054
19/10/19 02:54 PM
19/10/19 02:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 318
Colorado, USA
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britmog Offline
Learner Plates Off!
britmog  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
B

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 318
Colorado, USA
During my "working for the Government" days had to learn escape and evasion driving which was taught by the London Metropolitan Police. Wonderful lessons on the skid pan, how to drive backwards at 70 mph and then turn using the handbrake, how to drive through a road block (not good in a Morgan) and firing various weapons from fast moving vehicles (definitely good for a Morgan) were just a few of the tricks never forgotten.


Bruce Marshall
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #600060
19/10/19 03:15 PM
19/10/19 03:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,151
N
nick w Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
nick w  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,151
Getting to 70 mph in reverse must take a bit of doing...........

Re: L Plate Training [Re: smudger1] #600067
19/10/19 05:04 PM
19/10/19 05:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 318
Colorado, USA
B
britmog Offline
Learner Plates Off!
britmog  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
B

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 318
Colorado, USA
Modified vehicles


Bruce Marshall
1964 4/4 Series V Comp (Megan)
1994 +8 (Maurice)
2013 M3W (Olga)
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