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Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600003
19/10/19 08:06 AM
19/10/19 08:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 348
Lancaster
Phil Bleazey Offline
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Lancaster
Here are some observations and an idea but please be aware that I have only seen pictures of this set up and never had my hands on one. My experience is with Velocette motorcycles and in 50 or more years I have never had any problems with this design of Cush drive. The Velocette engine breathes through the drive side main bearing giving a continual oil mist to the heart of the Cush drive in the primary chain case. this is just one of many areas which leak oil and if there is no leaking then the primary chain case has to be drained of oil occasionally.

The trouble with grease is that it does not easily return to a mating face when it has been scraped, squeezed or pressed out. Add to this the centrifugal force effect which causes the grease to be thrown to the outside of the cylindrical housing leaving any air to collect in the middle, where the bits needing lubrication are and you see that it is a very difficult thing to keep lubricated.

If an oil slot were cut across the face of the splined sleeve where it butts up to the shoulder of the crankshaft then the engine would breathe along the splines delivering a small but continuous flow of oil to the centre of the Cush drive mating parts - right where you need it. You might also need a hole or two drilled at the bottom of the splines, half way along, to let the oil spray out directly between the two cam faces. The down side of this would be the need to drain it off regularly but this could be done by replacing the grease nipple with a drain plug and no more onerous than regular greasing? Would the assembly be sufficiently oil tight to keep the oil in till you drained it? - don't know. Be aware of the balance issue if you replace the grease nipple with a drain plug.

On the subject of balance, I note that your alternator rotor has been balanced ( row of drilled holes round one side). If the whole assembly was balanced together and your rotor turned independently when it's splines failed this could have caused problems.

All conjecture really but I hope it gives you some ideas - that type of Cush drive works on so many motorcycles I can see no reason why it won't work on the M3W - just needs some thought.

Good luck

Phil

Last edited by Phil Bleazey; 19/10/19 08:12 AM. Reason: more info

2013 M3W www.bleazey.co.uk - Builder of upgrade kits for the Centa coupling and BB mounts for M3W
Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600243
21/10/19 09:58 AM
21/10/19 09:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 46
Sweden
Swedewheeler Offline
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Swedewheeler  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 46
Sweden
My old rotor had the axel with splines welded to the rotor? I also believe that the welding process was part of the problem with the magnets coming loose which caused my meltdown...:-)

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600294
21/10/19 03:55 PM
21/10/19 03:55 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,523
Gods own county! Oop north
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I won't be welding them together then.

If the splined bush is case hardened I can't see welding it will do it much good either.

Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600431
22/10/19 03:46 PM
22/10/19 03:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 982
O'Fallon, Missouri USA
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Dan_Lockwood Offline
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O'Fallon, Missouri USA
Phil,

The rotors are always balanced separately. They are replacement part so they cannot be balanced "with" other parts.

Swedewheeler, I've never seen a rotor welded to the splined hub like yours. And yes, I would say that the welding was not a good thing for the magnets.

This whole Harley style compensator setup the way MMC designed it is so bad, it's almost laughable. Like Phil said, grease in a spinning housing is not good. Harley's use the comp inside their primary chain drive and is lubed by primary oil flinging about. But in the more recent years with larger cubes and hp, the comps have worn out exceedingly fast. Harley went through about 4 generations in about three years. Baker Transmissions has even come out with their own comp to sell as Harley's is still a crap shoot if it lasts or not. The newer Harley primary covers have a web cast into the outer housing cover that directs a flow of oil into the center of the comp to better oil it. Harley's last version when used in a previous model year has a plastic glue in web that directs the oil just as the new cast in webs do.

My old '76 Harley Shovelhead 1200cc motor only puts out about 55 hp and that comp will last forever. So put 2L of displacement into the comp and all bets are off.

Something similar to the Centa or Krazy Horse coupling style is going to be the end all to the comp issue. I still say my Lovejoy idea that still allows for "some" wind up would work well without any moving parts other than an input shaft bolted to the outboard diameter and the output shaft to the inner bolts of the coupling.

Dap, I think it's time to invest in the new Centa with Phil's pucks and be happy to not have to shove grease into the housing anymore.

Good luck with your comp.

Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600459
22/10/19 06:03 PM
22/10/19 06:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 338
SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Bitsobrits Offline
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SW Iowa, U.S.A.
Dan,

The Centa compensator is essentially a Lovejoy coupling. Different form, but very same idea.


Steve
2012 M3W #458
Iowa, U.S.A.

Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600468
22/10/19 06:40 PM
22/10/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,034
New River Valley, VA
rcmatt Offline
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Posts: 1,034
New River Valley, VA
From all I have been reading are you sure it is not a love/hate coupling cheers


Rodger
2018 M3W "Dreamers on the Rise"
2004 Plus 8 (wife's)
old Goldwings and a couple of Harleys
Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600492
22/10/19 08:41 PM
22/10/19 08:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 348
Lancaster
Phil Bleazey Offline
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Phil Bleazey  Offline
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Lancaster
Love / Hate for sure!


2013 M3W www.bleazey.co.uk - Builder of upgrade kits for the Centa coupling and BB mounts for M3W
Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600519
23/10/19 02:12 AM
23/10/19 02:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 829
London uk
rockabilly john Offline
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Posts: 829
London uk
Harley Davidson make different compsaters of different designs for different power outputs.

They are all bathed in oil.

So, no lube = failure someware down the line.

Not easy to come up with a design if you were not aware of the foiabels of the engine.
No excuses though.
The BMW M4 coupling looks the way to go.
Pity it was not invesgated earlier.

Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600529
23/10/19 07:01 AM
23/10/19 07:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 208
Hertfordshire
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Posts: 208
Hertfordshire
If the electric 3 wheeler is ever resurrected it will eliminate many of the drivetrain issues the ICE sufferers from, although knowing Morgan it will have its own unique set of issues!

Re: Compensator dilema. [Re: Dab of oppo] #600534
23/10/19 07:29 AM
23/10/19 07:29 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,523
Gods own county! Oop north
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Dab of oppo Online happy OP
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,523
Gods own county! Oop north
Still awaiting a reply from MMC regarding availability of parts or cost and availability of the Centa kit.

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