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Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Eddie Cairns] #603270
12/11/19 03:06 PM
12/11/19 03:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,102
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
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Posts: 11,102
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Eddie Cairns

A petrol only car will at most have a three to five year new car sales life.

Morgan will have to do some sort of hybrid at the least in the next few years.


Agreed. I'd be amazed if MMC weren't already planning for a hybrid drive train, and surely they must have designed the CX platform to be able to accommodate batteries for a pure EV - after all, they know better than any of us which way the legislation is heading.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Eddie Cairns] #603282
12/11/19 04:29 PM
12/11/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,119
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline OP
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Gambalunga  Offline OP
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Mandello del Lario
Originally Posted by Eddie Cairns
Bristol is proposing no diesel private cars in the city next year.

Typical wrong headed knee-jerk political thinking. Recent tests have shown that modern Euro 6D (temp) diesel cars with Addblue and particle filters can be less polluting than petrol cars.

There are some who believe that the best option for a hybrid car would be to use a small, efficient, diesel engine which would produce even less CO2 than petrol hybrids.

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/mercedes-benz/e63-amg/e300de-se-4dr-9g-tronic/first-drive


Peter

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Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #603283
12/11/19 04:46 PM
12/11/19 04:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,102
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
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Posts: 11,102
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
Recent tests have shown that modern Euro 6D (temp) diesel cars with Addblue and particle filters can be less polluting than petrol cars.


Unfortunately the key word is "can" in this regard though Peter. Most of the diesel vehicles buggering up the air quality in Bristol are nowhere near this spec.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #603294
12/11/19 05:46 PM
12/11/19 05:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,119
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline OP
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Gambalunga  Offline OP
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Mandello del Lario
The answer to the two problems of diesel polution, fine carbon particles and NOx, is to ban diesels that do not have particle filters and Adblue. This means in effect that Bristol could significantly improve air quality by first banning pre Euro 5 diesels that do not have particle filters and then banning pre Euro 6 diesels that do not have Adblue.

An example is the current list of vehicles prohibited from the centre of Milan

Prohibitions in force

Euro 0, 1 petrol
Euro 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 diesel without DPF
Euro 0, 1, 2, 3 diesel with after-market DPF with particulate mass class lower than Euro 4
Euro 3, 4 diesel with DPF as standard and field V.5 certificate> 0.0045 g / km or no value in the V.5 certificate
Euro 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 diesel with after-market DPF installed after 31.12.2018 and with particulate mass class at least equal to Euro 4
dual-fuel diesel-LPG and diesel-methane Euro 0, 1, 2


Peter

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Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #603304
12/11/19 05:59 PM
12/11/19 05:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,102
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Scruffy Oik
Hamwich  Offline
Scruffy Oik
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Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Gambalunga
The answer to the two problems of diesel polution, fine carbon particles and NOx, is to ban diesels that do not have particle filters and Adblue.


Sadly this is where the manufacturer's track record has caused them more problems. People just don't believe their claims any more.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #603418
13/11/19 03:28 PM
13/11/19 03:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,119
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline OP
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Gambalunga  Offline OP
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Mandello del Lario
The results I mentioned above for diesels were from independent real world testing by a group of European consumer associations. The Citroen C3 diesel came out best of test.


Peter

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Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #603448
13/11/19 06:17 PM
13/11/19 06:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
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Posts: 931
Shropshire
I have said it on here several times....."I have it on good authority that diesel engines have at least one more roll of the dice" governments will realise that they are cleaner than many petrol engines .

I agree old diesels are not!


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Hamwich] #603469
13/11/19 08:54 PM
13/11/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 597
C
ChrisConvertible Offline
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C

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Posts: 597
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by Eddie Cairns

A petrol only car will at most have a three to five year new car sales life.

Morgan will have to do some sort of hybrid at the least in the next few years.


Agreed. I'd be amazed if MMC weren't already planning for a hybrid drive train, and surely they must have designed the CX platform to be able to accommodate batteries for a pure EV - after all, they know better than any of us which way the legislation is heading.


You would hope so. Morgan got a 6 million pound grant in 2016 toward building electric cars was to design a new platform to make EV's so the new CX platform should be that platform - the fact the other companies involved didn't produce the drive train doesn't mean Morgan shouldn't have produced the platform.

This is a quote from 2016 by Steve Morris - The money will also be used to fund development of plug-in hybrid and electric powertrains for the EV3 and the rest of the Morgan product lineup.

Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Eddie Cairns] #603470
13/11/19 09:00 PM
13/11/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 597
C
ChrisConvertible Offline
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ChrisConvertible  Offline
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C

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 597
Originally Posted by Eddie Cairns
Sorry guys but you are all living in the past, car manufacturers have to get to 95 grams per km quite soon or people will just walk away, then 80 by 2025 and 60 by 2030.



Is that realistic or are the companies going to have to cheat like VW did with their diesels just to pass some government based impossible test, or say sorry we can't actually achieve your unrealistic target?

Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #603483
13/11/19 10:28 PM
13/11/19 10:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 6,103
East Harling, Norfolk UK
RichardV6 Online NoMood
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RichardV6  Online NoMood
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Posts: 6,103
East Harling, Norfolk UK
I found this graphic dramatically illustrates diesel emission standards over the years.

[Linked Image]


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - Morton
1966 Land Rover S2a 88 - Lenny
1945 Moto Guzzi Airone
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