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Re: Asset or not? [Re: tmg513] #606042
03/12/19 10:59 AM
03/12/19 10:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,207
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
Richard Wood  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,207
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted by tmg513
I've always viewed my Morgan as something I've enjoyed. I couldn't care less if its value has gone up or down or what happens to its value in the future.


Fair comment although had I known better when I was younger would be feeling very smug now had I invested in Classics that are now increasingly out of my financial grasp.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606045
03/12/19 11:30 AM
03/12/19 11:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 90
V
VinMogger Offline
Just Getting Started
VinMogger  Offline
Just Getting Started
V

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 90

In 1995 I purchased my first new one, and fourteen years and 105,000 miles later sold it for around 75% of the original purchase price, which doesn't seem bad.

But I purchased my first Morgan in 1968 for £215, and sold it a couple of years later for £300. I thought I had done very well - but perhaps I would have thought differently had I known that forty years later the same car would sell at auction in California for a shade under $80,000!

Quentin

Re: Asset or not? [Re: Cat302] #606046
03/12/19 11:31 AM
03/12/19 11:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 669
Bedfordshire, UK
St Eve Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
St Eve  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 669
Bedfordshire, UK
Originally Posted by Cat302
Like many others I purchased my Morgan solely for my pleasure, I considered the cost a loss immediately
Me, too. Bought mine just over 7 years ago and now I consider the cost as money I never had. Never think about it - except in the past couple of years I have had to desist from driving twice following surgery. That made me think (briefly) that maybe the time had come... However, one of those post-surgery periods ended this morning when I went for a quick blast. Fine and dry, +4 degrees, hood down and sides off. Exchanged a merry wave with a Triumph Roadster. Wonderful stuff!


Steve
2010 Plus 4, 4-seater, 2.0 Duratec, Baby Blue
Re: Asset or not? [Re: Hamwich] #606056
03/12/19 01:17 PM
03/12/19 01:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,746
London
MOG 615 Online content
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
MOG 615  Online Content
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,746
London
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by tmg513
I've always viewed my Morgan as something I've enjoyed. I couldn't care less if its value has gone up or down or what happens to its value in the future.


Exactly this.





Seconded , if you want an rare appreciating asset , invest in fine art. If you want to enjoy driving buy a Morgan and use it.


Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.
Re: Asset or not? [Re: ChrisConvertible] #606063
03/12/19 01:47 PM
03/12/19 01:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,263
Aberdeenshire
Image Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Image  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,263
Aberdeenshire
Are you UK based?..... I wasn't aware that having your vehicle registered as 'historic' carried any restriction on use??..... Again, I have several old vehicles and have no intention of selling any of them... They're part of my history... When I can no longer drive I intend to pass the two nicest to family members to enjoy. To be honest whether it's cars, houses or whatever I can't remember buying any of them for 'investment' rather than 'I really want that'!! :-)

Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606065
03/12/19 02:02 PM
03/12/19 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,126
UK (up north)
Dean-Royal Offline
Part of the Furniture
Dean-Royal  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,126
UK (up north)
I don't see the Aero models dipping below the £40k now no matter what series


www.generalpaint.biz/color.php Problem with your Colour, we offer TM members impartial advice.
Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606068
03/12/19 02:17 PM
03/12/19 02:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,590
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
+8Rich  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,590
Devonshire

If you want an asset buy houses, if you want fun buy a Morgan and amortise it over 4 years whatever you get back at point of sale is a bonus that way and look at the unbridled joy it will have given you.
As with my other cars if I couldn't pay cash for them I wouldn't have them, from a personal perspective I wouldn't enjoy them wholeheartedly under those conditions we are as different as our cars.

I recall Richard Thorne telling me 15 years ago when I bought my first Plus 8 off him, no matter what condition a Plus 8 is in it will never be worth less than £11k and I suspect he is right.

p.s. My wife is my greatest asset but she has higher running costs than the Plus 8 but worth every penny.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606070
03/12/19 02:35 PM
03/12/19 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,414
L
Luddite Offline
Has a lot to Say!
Luddite  Offline
Has a lot to Say!
L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,414
Riverstar... interesting question though I DO like to set datums from which to contemplate much.... In this case how to define an ASSET ... well I guess there may be all sorts of assets, apparently Dolly Parton has more than two..?

Some assets provide more pleasure than they are likely to provide financial profitability, and Dolly seemingly has quite a few of those too as a very astute business woman..?

At the other end of the scale, how do we wish to determine something physical that is other than an asset, yet we require to spend effort/ money on in order to acquire it...? An expenditure without the purpose of creating financial returns....perhaps a reasonable I.D. might be "goods"... ?

If we can work from there then perhaps as we are discussing motor vehicles, then goods are items we expect to DEPRECIATE in value the more use we make of them and even when we are finished with them there may be some value left, even if we only sell it to a scrap man as opposed to hoping it has retained enough value in a trade-in to help with the cost of it`s replacement..? I suspect also worth consideration in terms of financial evaluation, we understand that as soon as we register it in our name/drive it out of the showroom it`s market value can immediately drop and dependant on marque, quite considerably so..? Thus while not thought of an investment and more part of the cost of living a particular lifestyle, the family car might be thought of as a NECESSARY EXPENDITURE, and not an investment, though on the other hand it could also be considered as an investment in terms of improving the quality of family life.... Bit of a conundrum...?

Marketing and the markets.. the power of advertising is undoubtedly enormous in manipulating minds in all sorts of areas of life from which one can adopt BELIEFS.... if one is so inclined...sigh! With enough time, money and effort expelled to create and propagate those beliefs, they can become widely adopted, and for me the Classic car MARKET has drawn a huge number of folk in to it, by promoting the idea that there is INVESTMENT potential to the extent that owning a classic vehicle can be deemed to be an ASSET in the financial sense...? The datum for market thinking to work from, would logically seem to be that markets can rise and fall...Thus if you are an astute investor or have some insider information or more likely NOT, you might win or loose and in any market I suspect the winners win at the expense of the losers..?

Classic Cars, or in the US Collector Cars...... even defining that which does or does not fit into that categorisation can create lengthy discussion...? But as we are talking Morgans, I guess that can be avoided for the time being..? However, some Morgans may well be seen as having more investment potential than others..... Complex innit..? Perhaps just best to get to grips with the REALITY that few if any Morgans are likely to generate PROFIT over your ownership and are likely to soak up your cash in the long term...? If that scenario is accepted than it seems a Morgan is unlikely to be considered an astute purchase in terms of a financial asset..?

Seems many of us like the idea of INVESTMENT in much, finding a measure of comfort in expenditure that may be considerable in terms of our wherewithal, thinking perceptions of house values being the main one for many folk and perhaps vehicles following on from that..? Do you have any doubt that estate agents and car sales folk are well aware of promoting those investment ideals as part of their trade skills...? As a potential purchaser we can be suckers for the sales patter.... be that "make America great again" or "lets` get Brexit done" or Classic cars have investment potential.... (-:

As I may have typed elsewhere, I have an acquaintance who bought a very nice condition 90`s Porsche 964 in 2009 for circa £16K from a specialist dealer. The same dealer is now marketing a very similar year, condition 964 to the one bought in 2009 today for circa £52K .. Yeah well some "Classics" have more investment potential than others it seems.... However, even though his 964 would seem to have increased considerably in terms of MARKETABLE value, how has the pound (£) performed over the same period of time.... and if he either tried to cash it in privately or went for a Sale Or Return (SOR) from the same dealer, it would seem very unlikely that the £36K difference in ADVERTISED value might end up in his pocket..?

Seems to me that the term "man maths" is accepted as covering the many excuses utilised to justify the expenditure on hobby`s and pastimes such as involvement with Classic Cars and much else, and it seems so many of us may delude ourselves that a Classic this that and the other is an investment, and as such, we can be little more than cannon fodder in the dealerships showrooms...?

Bottom line.... we would all hope that our Morgans are worth something given the amount of cash spent on them as the result of expenditure involved in purchase, maintenance, repair and usage, even if purchased many years previously, and even if their actual monetary value value may in time require to be assessed as part of our "estate".. (-:

Me..? The cost of my Morgan at the time of purchase equated to five years of savings potential... no finance costs involved... If five years of savings relative to your personal wherewithal is deemed to be of no consequence, I would be surprised indeed, but then there are folk who have never had to save, thus there truly will be those whose Morgan`s market value could be considered of no consequence whatsoever at the time of purchase. I have no issue with that.

At the time of purchase my Morgans market value was of considerable importance as you might imagine, but as the years passed the expenditure involved and with good fortune relative to income and other of life`s targets being achieved, it is indeed a very comfortable feeling to arrive at a mindset where I feel my Morgan owes me nothing, based upon the amount of enjoyment it has provided during my 16 or so years of ownership, even if most of those were spent laid up in the garage while other of life`s priorities ... Perhaps admitting I may have only covered circa 25k miles over that time will equate to being excommunicated by the "faithful"... (-:

I suspect my usage can play into the question of INVESTMENT thinking.... and in my assessment... that my Morgan owes me nothing is based an a personal SENSE of returns from adventures enjoyed touring Southern Europe on three occasions covering France, Spain, Portugal and Italy. As I have typed elsewhere, it provided returns by just being there in the garage, which are hard to quantify though seeing it there when I visited the garage for whatever reason and knowing it was there waiting.. definitely added to my perception of returns and thus evaluation processes, more so when it was road legal and just waiting for the key to be turned to head out into whatever adventure I might have in mind as it is right at this moment.... (-:

I suspect the determination of investment potential can have more personal connotations by way of returns than in the mere financial sense when all is well in your world, though when there is either a need or desire to turn a Morgan back into cash..... an entirely different point of view will likely be attached...?

My current thinking is that ICE vehicles have the potential to fast become less valuable and Classics that have experienced bubble growth may well pop the loudest any time in the relatively near future.... but then I admit to pessimist tenancies as a previously experienced optimist... oldgit hide

Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606076
03/12/19 03:19 PM
03/12/19 03:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 448
Cambridge UK
S
Stephen888 Offline
Learner Plates Off!
Stephen888  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
S

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 448
Cambridge UK
Bought my 3 year old +8 in 1983 for £6,500. Driven it 250k miles in the last 36 years. Bought to enjoy and boy have I had some fun with it, not as a financial investment. I had a low mileage secondhand 911 (964) bought for £25k in 1997 sold 4 years later having added 50k miles for £19,500. Guess I couldn't buy it back for less than £45k now. And don't ask me about the very early Nov 1953 TR2 with all the Lawrencetune parts I bought for £250 in 1975.


1980 +8 Blue
----------------
Stephen
Re: Asset or not? [Re: Fox Terrier] #606078
03/12/19 03:34 PM
03/12/19 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,439
norfolk, UK
lowebird Offline
Part of the Furniture
lowebird  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,439
norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier

Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by tmg513
I've always viewed my Morgan as something I've enjoyed. I couldn't care less if its value has gone up or down or what happens to its value in the future.


Exactly this.






+1



I completely agree. My experience of buying 3 new Morgans is that I have lost money on all of them but how can you put a monetary value on such a life enhancing experience. You can't drive a bank account.!!


Here for a good time not a long time!!
Reg
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