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Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606299
04/12/19 03:51 PM
04/12/19 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,575
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,575
Originally Posted by Riverstar
In the past I viewed my classic cars a 1930's Austin and later a 1960's TR as an apprecating asset and indeed the increased value of the TR enabled me to become the proud owner of a 2006 4/4. However with the increasing amount of emission regulations and that my 4/4 will not enjoy exemptions as my previous age related "classics" I suppose l should consider it a depreciating asset.


Yes it is a real question. I feel fairly sure that cars that carry a tax exempt sticker (used to be 73 but I guess its later now) will be exempted from upcoming polltuion laws. New cars will fit the new laws of course. But what happens to cars that are just 10 or 15 years old.

I have heard political talk of banning all petrol and diesel cars but I expect there will be exceptions for historic or museum pieces. But what will be the age break? If its the same as the no-road-tax age then it will be a further 25 years in the garage before my toy qualifies.

Re: Asset or not? [Re: Neilda] #606304
04/12/19 04:00 PM
04/12/19 04:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,126
Essex
PeterG Offline
Has a lot to Say!
PeterG  Offline
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,126
Essex
Originally Posted by Neilda
Asset or not?

I suspect in a divorce, it would be regarded as an asset.


100% correct. rtm

Re: Asset or not? [Re: PeterG] #606310
04/12/19 04:17 PM
04/12/19 04:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,442
Northamptonshire UK
Stringers Best Mate Offline
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Stringers Best Mate  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,442
Northamptonshire UK
Originally Posted by PeterG
Originally Posted by Neilda
Asset or not?

I suspect in a divorce, it would be regarded as an asset.


100% correct. rtm


That set my patented "Cynic-o-Meter" off, that did..

winky


Steve
Re: Asset or not? [Re: Stringers Best Mate] #606316
04/12/19 04:25 PM
04/12/19 04:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,185
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
Talk Morgan Guru
Hamwich  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,185
Gloucestershire, UK
Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
Originally Posted by PeterG
Originally Posted by Neilda
Asset or not?

I suspect in a divorce, it would be regarded as an asset.


100% correct. rtm


That set my patented "Cynic-o-Meter" off, that did..

winky


Yes. Still, at least there's a simple solution to avoid the risk.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 1957 R4 CV, 2005 Ferrari Vipar
Re: Asset or not? [Re: ChrisConvertible] #606330
04/12/19 05:16 PM
04/12/19 05:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,805
West Paris, France
pandy Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,805
West Paris, France
Originally Posted by ChrisConvertible
........his brother in France owns classic cars because it means he can drive to work and not have to keep buying new cars to meet the rules. Not sure but I think to drive into Paris a car must be over 30 years of age, or under 10 years and use less than X grams of CO2 per KM etc. Listening to him I had a vision of Paris being full of 1960's sports cars puffing out all the nasty gases that pre Catalytic converter cars do because the owners find that more fun and is easier than keeping up with the regulations - probably not what the law makers are expecting.


In 2009 France made the conditions attached to collectors cars a lot less onerous than before. Prior to 2009, you could register a car which was at least 25 years old on a "carte grise de collection" or CGC. These cars were exempted from Contrôle Technique (the equivalent of the MOT). The main constraint was that you could only drive it in the department in which it was registered, or those departments contiguous to your own. To drive further afield involved making a declaration to your local Préfecture each time.

Since 2009, to qualify a car needs to be at least 30 years old, and you need to be able to show that the car is standard (as in unmodified). The Contrôle Technique is now required, but every 5 years (instead of every 2 for a normal vehicle). You may not use the car for pecuniary gain (so you can't rent it out, use it for weddings, transport merchandise in it and so on). Cars on a CGC, as you correctly point out, are exempt from the anti-pollution measures in cities such as Paris. I guess this is because the law-makers and all of their rich mates have classic cars, tho' the official reason is that it is recognized that these vehicles are lightly used.

My TVR turns 30 next year. It's been "maturing" in a lock-up at Auvers sur Oise (where Van Gogh died as it happens) since 2010. I plan to dig it out and restore it next year and put it on a GCG and then go and delight the good burghers of Paris with it's thunderous exhausts.


Giles. Mogless in Paris.
Re: Asset or not? [Re: pandy] #606402
05/12/19 02:35 AM
05/12/19 02:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 201
C
ChrisConvertible Offline
L - Learner Plates On
ChrisConvertible  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
C

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by Image
Chris..... Here the claim is 'no new ICE cars being sold by' which is not the same thing and possibly more realistic..


I think that is what they mean here as well. I just read what the our local government (I am in the ACT) wants and it is zero green house gases apart from vehicles by 2020, all ACT government vehicles purchased at 2020 to be zero emissions and net zero greenhouse gases for the ACT by 2050. By net could I assume that means enough trees to make up for the CO2 we breathe out and the few ICE cars left by 2050? The ACT seems to want to lead Australia in the green house gases and every now and then there are articles in newspapers with titles such as CANBERRA LEADING AUSTRALIA ON ZERO EMISSIONS VEHICLES. But the ACT is such a small part of Australia so I can't see it making a huge difference unless the rest of Australia follows. I don't want to get into politics but I do wonder if this local push is due to the ACT government being Labor and the Federal Government Liberal.

The ACT will not charge stamp duty on a new electric car which basically drops the price by about 3% and knocks about $100 off the yearly registration. But I think that is the only incentives there are to buying electric. The fact sheet also says that there are 47 models of electric cars in the UK that should be available in Australia soon.

At the start of the year I went to an electric car day but most of the converted cars were very old and in terrible condition, it seemed crazy to spend heaps on converting cars like that to me. I got some company contacts and tried to price an electric car I might want but to build a MGB with an electric motor to run a MX5 gearbox was going to cost $35,000 for the motor, batteries and the extra bits like battery management system etc. and I would still have to source a car and the MX5 gearbox, the estimated top speed of the car was 110kph and the range 150km between charges, and it was about $5000 extra to add enough batteries to get the range to 200km. I thought of a MGB because I thought I could get the suspension and brakes from Frontline and other parts like window rubbers, trim etc. are still readily available so I can have a nice car, not a rattly dinged up 25 year old Mazda 121 with missing door rubbers etc but an electric motor like most of the vehicles at the electric car show. I also talked to the local Frontline distributor about the idea and while he liked the concept he basically said he could build a Abingdon Edition car with the 2.5 310bhp engine for less or use the 2.0 litre 215bhp engine for a lot less and in his view I would get a much better car.

So unless something happens with battery technology the idea still doesn't seem to make economic sense.

Originally Posted by Mkiss
Hey, I am out here in Australia at the moment. Can`t see a single charging point.
Is it really a goal - or just lip service?

Also solar power and wind power seem to be at the very start....

..


There are a few charging points in the ACT put in by the local government but I agree you don't see many of them. I also wonder when those 47 models of electric cars will become available to start using them, I have seen two Tesla S (a red one and a blue one) and a few Nissan leafs but I seriously think the number of electric cars in the ACT is very low, officially there are 300 registered electric cars.

There is a solar farm near me and a wind farm not that far away but I very rarely see them turning. I have been told they angle the blades into the wind so they only turn when the grid needs extra power, it makes me wonder could all the wind farms be turned up and a coal power station turned off?


Originally Posted by pandy
Cars on a CGC, as you correctly point out, are exempt from the anti-pollution measures in cities such as Paris. I guess this is because the law-makers and all of their rich mates have classic cars, tho' the official reason is that it is recognized that these vehicles are lightly used.

My TVR turns 30 next year. It's been "maturing" in a lock-up at Auvers sur Oise (where Van Gogh died as it happens) since 2010. I plan to dig it out and restore it next year and put it on a GCG and then go and delight the good burghers of Paris with it's thunderous exhausts.


Yes I am sure that is the reason smile

Enjoy the TVR smile

Last edited by ChrisConvertible; 05/12/19 02:56 AM.
Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606406
05/12/19 06:49 AM
05/12/19 06:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 519
Yorkshireman living in Surrey
Bonesie Offline
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Bonesie  Offline
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Posts: 519
Yorkshireman living in Surrey
I didnt buy mine as an asset as such. The fact that Morgans do seem hold their value was a massive factor in buying one and not another car. Time will tell when we eventually come to sell it I suppose cheers


Bonesie

Current stead -'The Captain' Black +4

'Life is like a garden, dig it' *Joe Dirt farmer
Re: Asset or not? [Re: Riverstar] #606436
05/12/19 10:58 AM
05/12/19 10:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 552
L
Luddite Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 552
I suspect those of us whose money did not come easy and/ or just valued their cash greatly, would ever have an eye on the asset aspect of a Morgan`s cost/value given that I suspect in most cases a Morgan was probably not purchased for everyday use, as may have been the case a few decades ago..? If that might be accepted then it seems a Morgan has perhaps become classified as a recreational vehicle (RV) in the minds of most owners, and more likely to be so as the years advanced past the swinging sixties in the UK... (-:

When I bought my +8 circa Y2K it was definitely purchased as a recreational vehicle and played no part in my transport requirements other than to enjoy midweek runs round the lochs, through the glens and over the hills hereabouts, though having typed that, it replaced a m/cycle that had been bought on the same basis, the m/cycle having been bought to replace a modern sports car that had performed the same task for 10 years or so.. Purchase and running costs of RV`s required cash to be diverted from the day to day priorities of life in varying degrees... thus their financial value was ever a consideration should there be a desire to replace it/them with something else, or a need to turn them back into cash should one of life`s little surprises crop up... Thus any RV was also looked upon as a possible financial reserve if things became tight.

It seems perhaps from the seventies that the classic car market had begun to take off, and in general with the growth in disposable income it also seems that there were a considerable number of folk thinking that their savings might provide better "returns" by "investing" in a classic vehicle than having the cash sit in the bank gaining little interest, thinking family days out at car shows club runs, involvement in competitions of one kind or another etc.etc.etc. and as such a classic car could loosely be thought of as an investment, the term investment utilised to sell the idea to the good lady of the household...? Thus it seems possible that the asset/ investment thinking became almost enshrined as part of the classic car scene, and a very useful part for those involved on the marketing manufacturing side...?

I suspect defining whether MY Morgan is or not viewed as an asset by ME... it most definitely has been in physical terms and in so many ways, as for the financial, I guess that may be judged NOT by it`s insured value today, or the values equivalent vehicles might be advertised at, or the imagined market value... but by how much it might actually sell for on the day of sale, assuming I may be involved in the process, and not that it is truly valued as no more than an asset as part of my estate... (-:

Seems to me that chances are the vast majority of classic cars asset value will drop considerably if/when climate change thinking/legislation may evolve as I imagine, though over what period of time, I have not a clue, but perhaps sooner than many might care to contemplate..?

Just thinking in type oldgit hide

Re: Asset or not? [Re: Luddite] #606454
05/12/19 02:15 PM
05/12/19 02:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,805
West Paris, France
pandy Offline
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pandy  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,805
West Paris, France
Originally Posted by Luddite

Seems to me that chances are the vast majority of classic cars asset value will drop considerably if/when climate change thinking/legislation may evolve as I imagine, though over what period of time, I have not a clue, but perhaps sooner than many might care to contemplate..?



I'm sure this is so.

In a similar vein, swmbo & I were seriously thinking of buying a property in the French Caribbean. The current hysteria about air travel has made us re-think this idea, as for it to wash it's face we'd be relying on fresh tourists jetting in every week. If the next 10 years (the period over which we would finance it) see major changes to the social acceptability and/or affordability of flying long distance then we could find ourselves owning a white elephant. And after all, it's not something that we actually NEED to do.


Giles. Mogless in Paris.
Re: Asset or not? [Re: pandy] #606458
05/12/19 02:50 PM
05/12/19 02:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,335
Somerset, UK
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PaulJ Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Somerset, UK
"And after all, it's not something that we actually NEED to do.

For most of us I suspect that owning a Morgan is the same, therefore to make the sums a bit more acceptable, whilst in the short term most models are not appreciating assets, as such, the depreciation has to be kept to reasonable levels, after all who wants or can afford to lose 50% - 60% of a cars value in the first 3 years? Jeez, on a Plus 4 that would be around £20k - £25k. That is a pretty expensive way of enjoying yourself occasionally.

I was sorry that the factory ever caught up with their waiting list. A couple of years would work - short enough to get what you want and long enough to keep the prices of s/h cars up. However, as someone pointed out to me once, MMC is a commercial concern and for some reason wants/needs to make a profit, not just provide us with fine toys to play with.


Paul
[Beginning to get the best out of the ARP4]
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