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Starting after a lay up? #612370
14/01/20 07:36 AM
14/01/20 07:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,570
Surrey. UK
Neilda Offline OP
Part of the Furniture
Neilda  Offline OP
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,570
Surrey. UK
I haven't driven my 8 since September - it's been tucked up in my garage on a battery tender.

I probably won't drive it for a while yet, so it could be 5 months or so sitting idle.... I suspect modern engines will cope OK with this, but might there be anything I should do before spinning the engine up?


+8 4.8
Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612374
14/01/20 07:52 AM
14/01/20 07:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 531
L
Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 531
Nielda, I know nothing of modern Morgans, though hearing an engine rattle until oil pressure builds is never comforting to the mechanically sympathetic. Thus if it might be simple to access (?), pulling the fuel pump relay prior to turning the engine over until pressure builds, might be thought worth while...? Flat spots on the tyres are perhaps another consideration..?

Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612381
14/01/20 08:45 AM
14/01/20 08:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,073
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
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DaveW  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,073
South Yorkshire
If you have less than half a tank of fuel, it might be worth adding some stabiliser. Not so bad if the tank is full.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) Plus 4
Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612386
14/01/20 09:07 AM
14/01/20 09:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,561
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
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CooperMan  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Yorkshire
Originally Posted by Neilda
I haven't driven my 8 since September - it's been tucked up in my garage on a battery tender.

I probably won't drive it for a while yet, so it could be 5 months or so sitting idle.... I suspect modern engines will cope OK with this, but might there be anything I should do before spinning the engine up?


Personally I would run it up to temp (let the fan cut in) once a month, if it's stood for months you'll end up with very dry camshaft parts that take high loads


Jon M
Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612419
14/01/20 02:42 PM
14/01/20 02:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,560
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,560
I well and truly bu666ered a stag doing just that. The problem is that all the wear with an egine takes place at start up when cold. Plus you get oil drain in a 4 week period. So effectively you are causing as much wear as you can. In the case of the stag I ran the camshaft bearings in one head.

I'm for nobbling the fuel pump and running up the oil pressure but I would be a bit worried wehter that would throw an EML.

Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612442
14/01/20 05:02 PM
14/01/20 05:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 531
L
Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 531
As I typed Howard, I have no experience with a digital Morgan, though think the Porsche guys pull what they identify as the DME relay which operates the fuel pump... I think it dose fire up a fault indication that clears it`s self after a mile or two...

My old mid 80`s +8 will not bring in the fuel pump relay UNTIL oil pressure is being detected by the oil pressure switch, which can be both good and bad..... Good in terms of avoiding firing up a "dry" engine... Bad in terms of a battery with little life when it it fails to spin the engine.. just.. short of what might be required after lay-up denying you of that long awaited first run out in the sun...

Jon M, Ran my Mog up Sunday last, and as you suggest, I too like to run it up to temperature till the fan cooling fan cuts in and out a couple of times I even switch the heater fan on too in order to give it a run also. Modern Morgans seem VERY dependant on efficient fan operation, since lean burn engines were introduced...?

I also like to push it back and then again forward for the next run to try to avoid flat spotting the tyres and ensure the brakes are free..

Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612465
14/01/20 07:02 PM
14/01/20 07:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 40
Tauranga. New Zealand
M
Mogdriver Offline
Just Getting Started
Mogdriver  Offline
Just Getting Started
M

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 40
Tauranga. New Zealand
Luddite, wen starting a non EFI Morgan the starting circuit energisers the fuel pump so you do get fuel pumped to the carburettors, on releasing the ignition switch when running it switches to the oil pressure switch which is somewhat similar to the inertia switch on a EFI car in that when the engine stops the fuel pump electrical circuit is broken. There is a good article on Gomog. There have been a few failures of these oil pressure switches but in the field it can be bypassed with say a a paper clip or similar to at least get mobile again. This is very much a temporary fix.
Doug
Deep deep dowunder

Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612551
15/01/20 02:07 PM
15/01/20 02:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 531
L
Luddite Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Luddite  Offline
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L

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 531
Perhaps if it is no real hassle part of this thread might be best to appear in the maintenance section if thought to have any value..?

Doug/Mogdriver... Many thanks for taking time to reply re the fuel pump control circuitry. I liked the entirely logical idea that the fuel pump might be fed as you suggest via the ignition switched START circuit while the ign key was in the cranking position thus OVER-RIDING the opened contacts of the oil pressure switch to then supply the pump.... At which stage hopefully the carbs will have been fed enough fuel to initially fire up the engine, and once fired up, hopefully enough oil pressure will have been raised during that process to close the oil pressure switch contacts, and thus maintain the supply to fuel pump in order to feed the carbs when the ign key is returned from the START to the RUN position ...?

As you suggest Doug, with the engine now running and the fuel pump in operation, the oil pressure switch can then act as a safety device in the case of an accident, where it is possible that as the result of the circumstances relating to the accident the ign may have been be left ON risking fuel being pumped out of a damaged fuel pipe. In such a situation with the engine stalled as the result of the accident, the oil pressure will have dropped to zero, the oil pressure switch contacts will have opened and thus the electricity supply to the pump will be cut, stopping fuel delivery.. Thus the oil pressure switch can and does act similarly to inertia switch used in other vehicles to cut off fuel in an accident situation....?

However in the case of MY carb fed 1985-6 Morgan it`s fuel pump appears to be directly fed via the oil pressure switch alone, which determines that with no oil pressure the fuel pump has no supply. My old Mog was totally stripped and restored by it`s garage business Morgan enthusiast owner circa 1999 (?) As the result of those works it is ever possible that wiring modifications could have taken place, I believe it is also possible that an anti theft device was fitted during that time, which it seems likely would inhibit both the fuel pump and starter solenoid supplies.

I have doubts that the wiring of the fuel pump was altered other than it`s primary supply during the anti theft device fitment, but not quite in the frame of mind to cut into the harness to prove a point (at this time), however in order to prove to myself that my +8 operated as I suggested, I removed the white with red tracer at the starter motor solenoid, in order to remove starter motor activation out of the scenario while the ign key was turned to the START position, as expected I heard the relay energising to bring the (now disconnected) starter motor solenoid into circuit... HOWEVER, there was no fuel pump ticking, which I take as proof that MY +8`s fuel pump operates as I suggested in my mail...?

It would seem ideal if other carb fed +8 owners could determine the operation of their fuel pump circuitry..?

GoMoG is indeed a world leading source of assistance for Morganeers and others. Sorry I have not seen the info you mention relative to the fuel pump circuitry Doug.

In many circuits there can be ways of TEMPORARILY by-passing safety switching in order to get you home if a switch fails, and it is well worthwhile to know where and how to create a by-pass. HOWEVER leaving such by-passes in place as the result of forgetfulness may create a risk in an accident...?

I suspect that lengthy periods of lay-up, which has come to be the norm for many classic cars, played no part in vehicle design and construction, and given that digitally controlled vehicles with all sorts of bells and whistles seem to have a constant draw on their batteries, many laid up cars suffer from top condition batteries ever going flat in time, add to that scenario less than 100% efficient batteries, likely to loose charge at an even quicker rate, thus lay-up can and does create issues that require careful consideration..

Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: Neilda] #612581
15/01/20 06:11 PM
15/01/20 06:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,951
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
+8Rich  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 21,951
Devonshire
Bring back the crank handle hide


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green
1994 Connaught Green +8





Re: Starting after a lay up? [Re: +8Rich] #612604
15/01/20 08:11 PM
15/01/20 08:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,561
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
CooperMan  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,561
Yorkshire
Originally Posted by +8Rich
Bring back the crank handle hide


That's how I prime the F Super thumbs


Jon M
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