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Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: CooperMan] #607674
12/12/19 04:38 PM
12/12/19 04:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,038
howard Offline
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howard  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,038
Originally Posted by CooperMan
On the assumption that the CX chassis is a fixed cost & the interior, electronics, dash, instruments, bla-bla, and assembly labour cost will be very similar to the PlusSix, then I can't see how they can retail the new 4/4 or PlusForCX for much less than £70k, that's serious money for the entry model


In business a cost is a fact * but a price is a decision. The two are only loosely related. You charge what you can get.

* well it is a fact until you challenge the beancounters and then facts get changed into other facts.

Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #607692
12/12/19 05:30 PM
12/12/19 05:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 13,418
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 13,418
Salisbury, UK
I have to agree with Howard.

In my business life we set prices at a point that we felt would give us optimal volume, without much regard to cost. But I was lucky, we worked with GP% between 85% and 95%.
MMC priced the Plus 6 based on expectation from the pricing of the Aero chassis cars, I'll bet they are very profitable.
As they move down to 4/4 and hybrids the volumes will increase, even if the unit profit per car falls, so total profitability will remain strong.

And yes, the beancounters live in their own world, allocating cost based on where it looks best, rather than any form of reality.


Peter,
V8s are best....
Tarka the 'Otter Mog....2014 Plus 8
AMG C63 Estate.


Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: howard] #607700
12/12/19 06:12 PM
12/12/19 06:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,209
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
Talk Morgan Addict
CooperMan  Offline
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,209
Yorkshire
Originally Posted by howard
Originally Posted by CooperMan
On the assumption that the CX chassis is a fixed cost & the interior, electronics, dash, instruments, bla-bla, and assembly labour cost will be very similar to the PlusSix, then I can't see how they can retail the new 4/4 or PlusForCX for much less than £70k, that's serious money for the entry model


In business a cost is a fact * but a price is a decision. The two are only loosely related. You charge what you can get.

* well it is a fact until you challenge the beancounters and then facts get changed into other facts.


Totally agree, but Invesiwatsit aren't going to let new Mogs roll out of MMC at a loss & with increased 'Stakeholders' (as they like to be called nowadays) I suspect MMC's overheads in Invesi's eyes have shot up ?


Jon M
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #607758
12/12/19 11:00 PM
12/12/19 11:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
Gambalunga Offline OP
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline OP
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,832
Mandello del Lario
You would be shocked at how little the cost of production of mass produced cars actually is. Many would also be shocked at how small dealer margins are. If MMC significantly increases volume with the smaller engine versions, thereby reducing component costs, and at the same time reduces in house labour costs per car with better production techniques, they may very well be able to offer a quite competitive price on an entry point car. If I recall correctly they stated the the PlusSix actually reduced costs by comparison with the Aero based cars.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #607766
12/12/19 11:32 PM
12/12/19 11:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,719
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Charter Member
Heinz  Offline
Charter Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,719
Köln Germany
From my point of view, we who love Morgan cars have pink red glasses on when it comes to the chances of greater sales.
The principles of mass manufacturers can't easily be applied to Morgan cars, I think. If in theory a price of 45000 GBP for a CX 4/4 could be realized by cost-saving measures and if 3000 cars would be built per year in the consequence...
Would more than 1,200 people all over the world buy a new car like this every year? I don't think there are so many potential customers waiting to afford a Morgan. It remains a niche product for conscientious and knowledgeable insiders.
Where are the frontiers that must be maintained despite all the modernized manufacturing to preserve desire and tradition?


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Heinz] #607831
13/12/19 11:52 AM
13/12/19 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,080
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
Roadster Guru
DaveW  Offline
Roadster Guru
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19,080
South Yorkshire
Originally Posted by Heinz
From my point of view, we who love Morgan cars have pink red glasses on when it comes to the chances of greater sales.
The principles of mass manufacturers can't easily be applied to Morgan cars, I think. If in theory a price of 45000 GBP for a CX 4/4 could be realized by cost-saving measures and if 3000 cars would be built per year in the consequence...
Would more than 1,200 people all over the world buy a new car like this every year? I don't think there are so many potential customers waiting to afford a Morgan. It remains a niche product for conscientious and knowledgeable insiders.
Where are the frontiers that must be maintained despite all the modernized manufacturing to preserve desire and tradition?


I agree. The balance remains the same.....just matching demand with production while making enough profit to survive and develop.


DaveW
2005 Corsa Red Roadster S1
2016 Saffron Yellow (Narrow) AR Plus 4
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #607965
13/12/19 09:10 PM
13/12/19 09:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 603
Suffolk Uk.
Hawki Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Hawki  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 603
Suffolk Uk.
The sales numbers for a new car could be significantly increased without having a negative impact if demand can be stimulated to meet the production. This could be done by selling more to new markets either geographically or to new customer segments such as younger people, both are higher risk than selling to the current market.

The nearest company that has gone through a similar market expansion I can think of is Harley Davidson. They have significantly increased production of a traditional product and have generally done ok but have had some significant bumps in the road. Residuals are still pretty good but possibly not what they were. Time will tell how it plays out for Morgan.

Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #612512
15/01/20 08:22 AM
15/01/20 08:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,260
european union
1560 Offline
Goodwood Drifter
1560  Offline
Goodwood Drifter
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,260
european union
Toyota announced the 4cyl version of the Supra, with 258hp, which leads to another BMW-sourced engine

best news: although it keeps an automatic gearbox, it weighs 100kg LESS than the 6cyl version

as promised the PlusFour would have a manual option: that might even weigh less


now: NoMog
sold: A'max/M3W/V6/444seater
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #612515
15/01/20 08:46 AM
15/01/20 08:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 646
R
Rovert Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Rovert  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
R

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 646
If MMC production goes above 1000 units then they will lose their Low Volume exemptions and would need to match all current safety and environmental requirements, which if achievable would ramp the costs up.


Brian
Jersey and Spain
Re: Reflections on a possible PlusFour [Re: Gambalunga] #612528
15/01/20 11:05 AM
15/01/20 11:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,103
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Guru

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,103
Hampshire
I can see that being a good plan, I was wondering where the blocking points in Low Volume were these days thank you.

1000 cars with

Better fit and finish due to design integration
Lower warranty issues
Higher customer satisfaction (whisper it)
Better final retained margin/profit
Better workforce usage to keep it in the UK
Better dealer relations as a result

All seems like a smart move I guess.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
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