Click here to return to the home page.
Image of a road.
Who's Online Now
21 registered members (Fuel.inj, ewn, M3W55, BLUE+4, Rog G, JoeSpeetjens, bmgermany, HeadlessBlue, Julian BB, sbarracl, Themorganeer, Hamwich, KR200, John Winn, gaston, RedThree, DirkM, B3MOG, JohnMat, petemog, John07), 185 guests, and 13 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
+8Rich 242
Hamwich 134
John V6 115
Image 113
Newest Topics
How much !!!
by CooperMan. 20/02/20 06:27 PM
Roadster 3.7 silencers
by hugo. 20/02/20 04:54 PM
Euro 4 and Ultra Low Emission Zones
by Quicksilver. 20/02/20 07:46 AM
Shooting nr Frankfurt
by +8Rich. 19/02/20 11:22 PM
Engine trouble
by Obie. 19/02/20 09:57 PM
Grill Removal (Plus 4)/Powdercoating?
by Nostalgiajohn. 19/02/20 11:49 AM
Retromobile Paris 2020
by nestor59310. 18/02/20 10:52 PM
Latest Photos
well..
Today at Krazy Horse
Mild winter en Provence
A few more NZ pics
Travels in New Zealand
Newest Members
Tipracer, George Okuda, Alice, ahdguy, Colin725
6829 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics37,289
Posts605,933
Members6,829
Most Online1,033
Dec 28th, 2019
Today's Birthdays
Boshly
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Diesel banned #612541
15/01/20 12:58 PM
15/01/20 12:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,550
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Gambalunga Offline OP
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline OP
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,550
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
At the moment we have a period of high pollution due to the lack of rainfall in some of Italy's major cities. As a sopp to the followers of the "Thunderbug" they have stopped the circulation of all diesel powered cars including Euro 6 in Milan and Rome. Given that all Euro 6 cars have particle filters and AddBlue they are possibly less polluting than some petrol cars and certainly produce less CO2.

It stinks to high heaven of a political decision without any scientific basis.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Diesel banned [Re: Gambalunga] #612543
15/01/20 01:19 PM
15/01/20 01:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,503
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,503
Köln Germany
I've just read about Rome, too. The politicians don't want knowledge and they want cheap praise from people who also don't have knowledge. The fact that modern diesel is cleaner than ever and does not emit any particles does not fit into the world view of medieval do-gooders who preach doom at the same time.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Diesel banned [Re: Gambalunga] #612545
15/01/20 01:26 PM
15/01/20 01:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,628
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Talk Morgan Sage

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,628
Hampshire
Never let a good fact get in the way of a good tweet/press byte eh ?

Yet they don't understand why they no longer get any respect from the public.


Just time to burn a little more petrol before dinner.
Re: Diesel banned [Re: Gambalunga] #612550
15/01/20 02:05 PM
15/01/20 02:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 206
Aberdeenshire
Image Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Image  Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 206
Aberdeenshire
Politicians have limited levers to influence society towards the unrealistic goals many climate activists demand without economic impact leading to 'France plus' civil unrest and their removal.... We can expect to see more of this sort of PR stunt as they try to pretend they're doing something valid..... My view is that doing nothing will, at the least, lead to environmental degradation on a massive scale (with the resulting economic/social harm).... And just blindly doing what the shoutiest of 'Activists' demands will lead to economic and social upheaval that will cause deaths on a world war scale.... Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.... We need proper input from scientists and engineers to policy (and real ones.... Not the media-mouthpiece 'experts' who have bought that term into such disrepute) to at least juggle the harm to its minimum!

K

Re: Diesel banned [Re: Gambalunga] #612556
15/01/20 02:41 PM
15/01/20 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,611
howard Offline
Part of the Furniture
howard  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,611
Never mind the diesel ban, I envy you the lack of rain. Here in Wales its been pi55ing down for weeks. Literally. The country is a sea of mud.

Re: Diesel banned [Re: Gambalunga] #612566
15/01/20 03:53 PM
15/01/20 03:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 305
Bristol
M
MJF Offline
Learner Plates Off!
MJF  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
M

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 305
Bristol
Is this discussion actually confusing the issue of air quality in cities (caused by particulates and NOx) with climate change largely caused by Methane and CO2 emissions. They are different issues.

When cities are faced with poor air quality ( which has nothing to do with Greta Thunberg or climate change) it is a reflection of increased NOx and particulates. If you compare like for like size cars - say a BMW 3 series EU6 with a 2 litre diesel or a 2 litre petrol engine the facts are that the petrol engine produces less NOx and Particulates than a diesel engine and is therefore having a lesser impact on air quality.

Whilst I may be biased because I have just got shot of my last diesel car, I can see the logic of banning diesel vehicles if you are trying to improve air quality in a city.

Re: Diesel banned [Re: Gambalunga] #612572
15/01/20 04:30 PM
15/01/20 04:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 253
Lancashire
RobCol Offline
Learner Plates Off!
RobCol  Offline
Learner Plates Off!

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 253
Lancashire
Not all Euro 6 have Ad blue.

I have 2016 and 2018 Mini & BMW's both Euro 6 and eligible for the London ULEZ and neither have Adblue.


Rob

2012 4/4 Sport Grey

Paint Code GLASURUT SA285.75
Re: Diesel banned [Re: MJF] #612574
15/01/20 05:05 PM
15/01/20 05:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 206
Aberdeenshire
Image Offline
L - Learner Plates On
Image  Offline
L - Learner Plates On

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 206
Aberdeenshire
Climate change is completely conflated with subsidiary issues... Veganiism, vehicle emissions and, for many activists, political reform being some ..... Inner city pollution is most definitely seen as a climate related issue in view of it being greenhouse gas emissions..... Certainly, for politicians fearful of bad press and lost votes they will be treated as the same thing for all real purposes.... Most environmental activists are not so strictly focused on the phrase 'climate change' as Ms Thunberg and their protests are far wider ranging.... I agree they're two separate issues on some level.... But in politics they're indivisible for any practical purpose.... Two ends of the same stick politicians don't want to be beaten with come election time! :-)

K

Re: Diesel banned [Re: MJF] #612622
15/01/20 09:38 PM
15/01/20 09:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,550
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Gambalunga Offline OP
Member of the Inner Circle
Gambalunga  Offline OP
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,550
Mandello del Lario, Lake Como,...
Originally Posted by MJF
Is this discussion actually confusing the issue of air quality in cities (caused by particulates and NOx) with climate change largely caused by Methane and CO2 emissions. They are different issues.

When cities are faced with poor air quality ( which has nothing to do with Greta Thunberg or climate change) it is a reflection of increased NOx and particulates. If you compare like for like size cars - say a BMW 3 series EU6 with a 2 litre diesel or a 2 litre petrol engine the facts are that the petrol engine produces less NOx and Particulates than a diesel engine and is therefore having a lesser impact on air quality.

Whilst I may be biased because I have just got shot of my last diesel car, I can see the logic of banning diesel vehicles if you are trying to improve air quality in a city.

The fact is that the NOx emissions of Euro 6 diesels is negligible as are the fine carbon particles with the filters that have become obligatory with diesel engines. What the legislators have not yet realised is that many of the direct injection petrol engines produce more fine carbon particles than some of the dirtiest diesels.
The legislators also completely ignore the fact that most commercial and public transport engines are polluting without any serious control and also ignore the fact that many heating systems are still highly polluting. Also conveniently ignored is the fact that there are many other sources of fine carbon including, above all, the colouring material that is used to make rubber black. They will tell you that the particles are different but they are still fine carbon particles. Any Euro 6 diesels are a drop in the ocean.


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: Diesel banned [Re: Gambalunga] #612636
15/01/20 10:53 PM
15/01/20 10:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 305
Bristol
M
MJF Offline
Learner Plates Off!
MJF  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
M

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 305
Bristol
From work I have done in the past I don't think legislators fully understand the impact of particulate size on the human body as we do not have sufficient history yet, of long term population exposure to the small particulates (nano particles) created by the relatively new technology. There is a view though that the human body is better able to pass through large particles but retains the smaller nano particles which are carcinogenic and mutagenic.

There is also the possibility that newer engines producing smaller particles may actually be producing a similar mass of particles as older dirty engines but just a lot more little ones as opposed to a smaller number of big ones with current automotive industry measuring techniques not having sufficient resolution to capture the population of the nano particles.The work I carried out required us to use measuring equipment from the Atomic Energy authority as it had a much higher resolution than is normally used in the automotive industry, which suggested that this might be the case. Particulate Mass is defined in exhaust gas by measuring the mass of PM10 and PM2.5 particles. Nano particles are defined as being less than PM0.1 which is not a measure used in defining vehicle exhaust gas.

If I am driving in town as a matter of routine, I switch my aircon system to recirculate the air rather than drawing it in from outside.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Aeroman, Simon 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1