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Finally I have a smooth steering. #615088
02/02/20 06:14 PM
02/02/20 06:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,687
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline OP
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Offline OP
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,687
Köln Germany
Now the steering functions largely smoothly and evenly. I thought about the fact that due to the height adjustment of the steering wheel there must still be a Ujoint in the driver's compartment. This Ujoint is existing and it was not in line with the connection of the second shaft. Here there is no forced guidance of the two shafts. So you can put them together wrongly twisted if you do not care.

First UJ behind steering wheel.
[Linked Image]

Together with this second UJ the forks must be in line.
[Linked Image]

The following shaft has twisted forks and this must be the case because it is a combined W-Z configuration. With this shaft, its twisted forks are deliberately forcibly guided - pressed at one end and at the other end on a rail that dictates the centering, you can't go wrong with this shaft performing its function.
See picture 3 below.
[Linked Image]

Here is the full explanation.
https://www.elbe-group.de/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/service/Wartungshinweise_e.pdf

This „twisted forks“ shaft is connected to the last shaft which leads to the steering gear. This connection has to be adjusted again so that the forks match (in other words also here you have to pay attention to the same fork orientation because it is freely rotatable when you plug it together).

I suspect that the factory did not pay attention to the alignment of the fork of the first shaft from the steering wheel to the fork of the second shaft. That's why the peaks of the force which lead to increased wear and tear. You just have to connect it correctly and at the end you have to put the steering wheel in a new alignment. Now I am happy. It is worth to check the aligment if you think you have an edgy steering feel.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615090
02/02/20 06:20 PM
02/02/20 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12,239
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 12,239
Salisbury, UK
Interesting...
I hope that the need to get the UJs properly aligned is fully understood at the factory, but wonder if this makes its self through to QC?

Now I have to go and check Tarka!


Peter,
Tarka the 'Otter Mog
2014 Plus 8


Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615098
02/02/20 06:55 PM
02/02/20 06:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,687
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline OP
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Offline OP
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,687
Köln Germany
Here is some maths re the shaft angles.
https://www.elbe-group.de/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/service/Konstruktionsrichtlinien_e.pdf

Peter, I don't want to imply it, but it's possible that they didn't think about the consequences of not aligning shaft 1 to shaft 2 when they added the adjustable steering wheel height about 12 years ago or so. Before that there was no need to pay attention to the first shaft. Or it was just bad luck in my case.




'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615103
02/02/20 07:44 PM
02/02/20 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 677
Manitoba, Canada
BertL Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
BertL  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 677
Manitoba, Canada
Great sleuthing Heinz!.... sherlock and an excellent outcome. thumbs
Presumably your efforts will also be of significant benefit to other owners and/or interested parties. cheers


Bert & B1800
"Tis well enough to know how much to know; and when to know, not to know, too much."
Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615112
02/02/20 08:19 PM
02/02/20 08:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 219
Germany, Rhein-Main Area
X
xc68anc Offline
L - Learner Plates On
xc68anc  Offline
L - Learner Plates On
X

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 219
Germany, Rhein-Main Area
WOW! I've read it the whole time and with great interest.

Great that's cured now and we all can see what was wrong.

René

Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615130
02/02/20 10:41 PM
02/02/20 10:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 22,768
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
Member of the Inner Circle
+8Rich  Offline
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 22,768
Devonshire
Thanks for that Heinz that is a fascinating bit of deduction there and cure for your lumpy steering, maybe others have the same symptoms also.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1994 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615159
03/02/20 10:56 AM
03/02/20 10:56 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 946
Sumerset
Rog Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Rog  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 946
Sumerset
Well spotted Heinz. My previous 4/4 had an MOT advisory once regarding a stiff spot with the steering. The mechanic said that it was most likely the u-joints in the linkage. I will check my new car now.


Roger
2011 Plus 4
Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615174
03/02/20 01:28 PM
03/02/20 01:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,847
Yorkshire
CooperMan Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
CooperMan  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,847
Yorkshire
Heinz, I have been following your previous thread on this & your conclusion is very interesting & I assume easily missed during build, thanks for posting thumbs


Jon M
Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615916
07/02/20 07:09 PM
07/02/20 07:09 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,657
Hill Head, Hampshire, Uk
Frank 4x4 Offline
Green & Grown Up
Frank 4x4  Offline
Green & Grown Up
Talk Morgan Addict

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,657
Hill Head, Hampshire, Uk
Hello Heinz,

A very very interesting topic which I shared with members of the Roadster 100 Register, drawing out one comment from a member with unsatisfactory steering on his Roadster..

As a result I have published a Technical Blog Page for our Register Members which also now includes my own observations, photos and understandings.

Here is the link to that Blog Page, which I hope the content is acceptable to you.

Frank

Blog Link


http://franks4x4-solograndetour.blogspot.co.uk/
Combat Stress-http://www.justgiving.com/Roadster100
Re: Finally I have a smooth steering. [Re: Heinz] #615931
07/02/20 08:18 PM
07/02/20 08:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,687
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline OP
Part of the Furniture
Heinz  Offline OP
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,687
Köln Germany
Frank, you forwarded my post correctly, thank you very much.

Since I'm not a professional expert, please read the following without guarantee of accuracy.

Regarding the text in the blog in front of my post:
I did not think so far that when the wheels are in a straight position, it is absolutely necessary that the cardan shafts are horizontal - in relation to the wheel position. In my opinion it is important that the forks of each cardan shaft and in connection to the next cardan shaft must be "in line" as described in my post. And exactly this as also in the text in front of my post in the blog was not the case with my car when you consider the first UJoint behind the steering wheel.

The job of the correctly connected cardan shafts is that the angular speed vs. the torque are evenly balanced/compensated so that the movement is smooth at any point of turning the wheel. For this reason the movement is always even, regardless of whether the forks of the first shaft are aligned exactly horizontally when the wheels are running straight. I hope I am able to write this in a reasonably understandable way.
On the other hand it is not a deterioration if you pay attention to the alignment of the Ujoints when the wheels are running straight. Maybe there is something I didn't pay attention to. But I think it should not make a difference. The important thing is that the Ujoints are all correctly connected to each other as a whole system, regardless of any initial alignment in terms of wheel position.
Edited:
(When I took the photos of the first and second Ujoint the front wheels were not exactly straight ahead. It was a coincidence that the forks were horizontal).

Last edited by Heinz; 08/02/20 12:31 AM.

'14 4/4 graphite grey
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