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Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617900
17/02/20 09:10 PM
17/02/20 09:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,273
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Alistair  Offline
Smile, it confuses them
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,273
Hampshire
That is a good comparison point Peter.

If you put each of these cars (Aero8, P6 and EQC) on a rolling road and looked at the power and torque shapes it would show what I suspect is the root issue.

The P6 is lightweight, RWD, the autobox programming (is it reprogrammed from the BMW install?)

The V8 will have a traditional climbing curve left to right.
The P6 will have an almost vertical climb from 1200-1800 rpm followed by a software controlled flat torque plateau until 4000-5000.
The EQC will have a ramp starting at zero and going down from there with a single speed box.

In all cases you have to adapt. As a more mature audience our baseline is what we have had before. I figure the people growing up now will have learnt on hybrids and BEV's and so be used to the torque characteristics. I learnt on normal petrol/carb cars with flat spots then had to adapt the Renault 5 GT Turbo with a 2 second lag! That was a laugh on roundabouts.

Torque is what breaks traction with a bump. That's why I fitted the Cup2 tyres to the back of the Coupe. I wanted to give the backend a better grip level than the front to balance out the tendency to slide before the front starts to get a little nervous. It has improved it but it has also highlighted the lack of communication between the front and back if you push on hard. Road speed is not an issue and that's where I love the Aero's. The big lazy smooth torque curve makes it feel like a luxury. Track side it is just to soft.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617955
18/02/20 12:59 PM
18/02/20 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
MDS61  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
As I have said before - with a Turbo powered car - keep the rev's above 3,000rpm - the torque curve is then flat.

This can be achieved even with an Auto box....


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Alistair] #617959
18/02/20 01:17 PM
18/02/20 01:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,543
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,543
Salisbury, UK
These two images show just how different the +8 and Plus 6 are....

Let's start with the new Straight 6. Peak torque at 1380 rpm, then flat to 5000.
The power rises steadily, but is already significant at 2000 rpm.
[Linked Image]

Now the lazy N62 V8: nothing much below 2500 rpm, it isn't until 3000 or so that it "gets on the cam" and peaks at over 4000 rpm. Power rises steadily, but it isn't until around 5000 rpm that the engine is truly bonkers.

[Linked Image]

It is hard to imagine how anyone could get themselves into trouble, without trying, but the Plus Six will bite, hard, from 2000 rpm, which is all too easily found.
The Plus Four, when it arrives, will have a similar performance characteristic, just less of it.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617978
18/02/20 04:28 PM
18/02/20 04:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,950
Norfolk
PeterG Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
PeterG  Offline
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,950
Norfolk
Both seem good fun to me

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: PeterG] #617990
18/02/20 06:16 PM
18/02/20 06:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
MDS61  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
Originally Posted by PeterG
Both seem good fun to me


laugh2 laugh2


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Hamwich] #618005
18/02/20 08:34 PM
18/02/20 08:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,996
NE Scotland
Ewan Offline
miles of smiles
Ewan  Offline
miles of smiles
Talk Morgan Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,996
NE Scotland
I don’t know where the limit might be for the plus 6, but I found out the hard way where they were on my Lotus, lesson well and truly learned.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618030
18/02/20 10:46 PM
18/02/20 10:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
MDS61  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
Nasty bump, hope all involved were OK?


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618038
18/02/20 11:29 PM
18/02/20 11:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,143
South Yorks
Clipper Offline
Part of the Furniture
Clipper  Offline
Part of the Furniture

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,143
South Yorks
Learnt with the Aero it must be straight and steady after a turn before applying too much power or it will fishtail.


2021 Lapis Blue Plus 6 evil You know it makes sense! thinking





Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Ewan] #618052
19/02/20 07:21 AM
19/02/20 07:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 465
P
pete757 Offline
Learner Plates Off!
pete757  Offline
Learner Plates Off!
P

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 465
Ouch!

Curiously, I sold my Lotus Evora to move into Morgan ownership!

I always thought the Evora was a stunning handling 'big Lotus Elise'. Very predicable even with 400 BHP! Yet on the same damp roads, that had me 'clenching' when I took the P6 out for a test drive!

I thought the P^ was a very light rear ended tail happy machine! GREAT fun in the right hands/dry roads I am sure... mine are no longer up to the task however! innocent

Last edited by pete757; 19/02/20 07:22 AM.

Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618083
19/02/20 10:38 AM
19/02/20 10:38 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,543
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Peter J  Offline
Formerly known as Aldermog
Member of the Inner Circle

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,543
Salisbury, UK
I learnt all about fishtailing in 1987 in Florida.
When we collected the rental car at Orlando airport the agent looked at my licence and said "you are from England, can you manage a stick shift?" Yes, I replied, why?
She said "I've got a car for you that I think you will enjoy".

Walked out to the carpark to find an almost new white Ford Mustang GT.
5.0L, 225 bhp, 300 ft lbs and a 4 speed box.
It was a hoot, just the right amount of power to get it to fishtail anywhere, especially if the road was a bit damp.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

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