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3 Write-Offs? #617425
15/02/20 03:25 PM
15/02/20 03:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,203
London
MOG 615 Offline OP
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London
Guys

I admit I am an interloper in this forum , being firmly a trad +8 man , but I have noticed 3 recent highly damaged +6s coming up.

The demo car in Holland was well reported and perhaps just someone trying a bit too hard without getting the feel of the car first?

Then there was one in Poland which had been imported from Germany that came up on a Facebook Group.

Now another on eBay which is obviously a UK car.

Are these +6s really that fast that they are catching drivers out, or is it just test drives with the clients expecting all the electronic aids to get them out of trouble?

Be interested in your views


Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617431
15/02/20 03:50 PM
15/02/20 03:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 895
Lancashire
RobCol Offline
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Lancashire
Other than Plus 6's being auto gearboxes the only reason I can think that Plus 6's are being crashed is that every Morgan dealer has them and are maybe giving test drives too freely to overambitious test pilots who then run out of talent.

The Plus 8 which wasn't available for test drives doesn't seem to have suffered the same problem.

Last edited by RobCol; 15/02/20 04:04 PM.

Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617432
15/02/20 04:05 PM
15/02/20 04:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 3,318
L
Luddite Offline
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Unusual for me, but I will keep this one short..(-: I have no real knowledge to work with, thus using nothing other than logic while contemplating the horse power ratings of modern sports cars and the many digitally operated systems to keep them out of the hedges, if the nut behind the wheel presses the loud pedal harder than the programming thinks he should, his actions may be over-ridden by one means or another...? I know little to nothing of the Morgans in question but I wonder if the +6 might have similar degrees of ...err...sophistication...?

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617447
15/02/20 05:08 PM
15/02/20 05:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 971
I
IcePack Offline
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IcePack  Offline
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Posts: 971
Somewhat different, but maybe a similar thing. I had a range rover some years back, that when pulling away from a T junction used to hesitate a little. This had the tendency to make you put the accelerator down a little more especially if you were cutting it a bit tight with a car coming. At this point the auto box would say "who me" & surge forward trying its
best to put you in the opposite hedge. I wonder if the auto box on the plus six, whilst not hesitating as such does not quite respond as expected initially, resulting in too much throttle with some steering input on. Light Car it will want to swap ends almost immediately. Just a thought
.


4/4 Ivory 4.1:1 axle, Jaguar XE R-Sport.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: RobCol] #617451
15/02/20 05:26 PM
15/02/20 05:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,203
London
MOG 615 Offline OP
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MOG 615  Offline OP
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London
Originally Posted by RobCol


The Plus 8 which wasn't available for test drives doesn't seem to have suffered the same problem.


My understanding is that Aero +8 also suffered a larger number of write-offs than is the case with trads, but perhaps they were not quite so public?

Again it is outside my area of expertise but i was informed this was due to the very short rear overhang (compared to the other Aero 8 variants) which made the tail end VERY tricky to catch when on the limit. All I know was that when I drove a demo car (the white one with a Union flag on the bonnet) I was really surprised when the VANOS system suddenly "dumped" a whole load of extra torque to the rear wheels at about 4.000 rpm. Luckily I was going up hill on a straight road at the time, otherwise it would have been a very different story to tell.

Last edited by MOG 615; 15/02/20 05:27 PM. Reason: poor proofreading

Andy G
1999 +8 , Indigo Blue.
Ex-John McKecknie/Mike Duncan 1955 +4 racer.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617456
15/02/20 05:36 PM
15/02/20 05:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 20,826
South Yorkshire
DaveW Offline
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Whatever the reason, The Plus Six is one to treat with respect.


DaveW
'05 Red Roadster S1
'16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: DaveW] #617459
15/02/20 05:39 PM
15/02/20 05:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
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Shropshire
Originally Posted by DaveW
Whatever the reason, The Plus Six is one to treat with respect.



Agreed!


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617482
15/02/20 07:41 PM
15/02/20 07:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,304
UK (up north)
D
Dean-Royal Offline
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UK (up north)
They had the same issue with the Aero's when first born, to much power and unfamiliarity.

Last edited by Dean-Royal; 15/02/20 07:43 PM.

www.generalpaint.biz/color.php Problem with your Colour, we offer TM members impartial advice.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Dean-Royal] #617494
15/02/20 08:58 PM
15/02/20 08:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,996
NE Scotland
Ewan Offline
miles of smiles
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NE Scotland
Originally Posted by Dean-Royal
They had the same issue with the Aeros when first born, too much power and unfamiliarity.



The more I read of the bad boy reputation, the more I want to have a go!

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Ewan] #617509
15/02/20 10:53 PM
15/02/20 10:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,145
Llanelli
Ray Offline
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Ray  Offline
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Posts: 5,145
Llanelli
Originally Posted by ewn
Originally Posted by Dean-Royal
They had the same issue with the Aeros when first born, too much power and unfamiliarity.



The more I read of the bad boy reputation, the more I want to have a go!
me to.


.+8 Now gone for a 1800 4/4. Duratec in bright yellow.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617532
16/02/20 07:33 AM
16/02/20 07:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 879
Germany, Rhein-Main Area
X
xc68anc Offline
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Posts: 879
Germany, Rhein-Main Area
At my last visit at BHM in 2019 Keith give me the chance for a testride in the PlusSix Demonstrator.

My answer: oh, no. Too much respect about the power and doesn't fit my feet. (To heavy...).

We speak about the car and that there are no "electronic helpers". I told Keith: if we wait some time and some Americans and heavy feeted Germans throw the car away, the factory will fit some more electronic.

René


2018 plus4 (sports green)
with a homemade really shiny red tinted dash…
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617536
16/02/20 08:53 AM
16/02/20 08:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,645
H
howard Offline
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Lets see what the magazine test reports bring up when they get past their normal " this is new and therefore the greatest" approach obligatory in first tests.

I wrote a long article on here a while back when I tested and compared an Aero 8, an Evora and ( I think) an F type. To me it was clear then that the Aero 8 was a point and squirt machine not up to scratch when it came down to poor british surfaces and bends - great fun in a straight line but not in the same world as the Lotus. Dont think my comments were that well received amongst this group of Morgan groupies but it was my honest opinion. And it wasnt surprising given the level of technical resources available to MMC. They had done as well as they could with what they had.

The Plus 6 is clearly better. But I wonder how well MMC have done, how much resource they can throw at this sort of development. After all they havent got the resources or tech skills of a consultancy like Lotus. And its worth adding that they dont have the ability to tailor the engine utput which BMW will have designed to suit a fully electronified car. So what we see might be a modern version of the early Porsche Turbo issues - sudden surge of power as it comes on boost??

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: howard] #617543
16/02/20 09:13 AM
16/02/20 09:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,587
East Anglia
madmax Offline
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Posts: 5,587
East Anglia
Originally Posted by howard
Lets see what the magazine test reports bring up when they get past their normal " this is new and therefore the greatest" approach obligatory in first tests.

I wrote a long article on here a while back when I tested and compared an Aero 8, an Evora and ( I think) an F type. To me it was clear then that the Aero 8 was a point and squirt machine not up to scratch when it came down to poor british surfaces and bends - great fun in a straight line but not in the same world as the Lotus. Dont think my comments were that well received amongst this group of Morgan groupies but it was my honest opinion. And it wasnt surprising given the level of technical resources available to MMC. They had done as well as they could with what they had.

The Plus 6 is clearly better. But I wonder how well MMC have done, how much resource they can throw at this sort of development. After all they havent got the resources or tech skills of a consultancy like Lotus. And its worth adding that they dont have the ability to tailor the engine utput which BMW will have designed to suit a fully electronified car. So what we see might be a modern version of the early Porsche Turbo issues - sudden surge of power as it comes on boost??



There's no way MMC was competing with Lotus or Porsche with the Aeros or plus 6 , its not a handling car , not designed for the track , nice GT car though for bumbling along listening to a lovely sound . I don't think there is a car that Morgan competes against , its totally different from anything else which is why people buy it ! goodnight


Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .


Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617559
16/02/20 10:22 AM
16/02/20 10:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,710
Köln Germany
Heinz Offline
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Posts: 6,710
Köln Germany
I don't know the driving experience in the new Plus 8 or the Plus Six. But traditional Morgan can be very competitive on the race track. Against the same brand as you can see impressively in the 4/4 Williams videos but also against other brands in their performance class. They are archaic cars but the basic data and the weight distribution is correct.
Sorry for thread drift but I had to say that. Those days are over. If it is true that a nowadays Morgan is fast and modern but you have to be afraid to step on the gas or take a fast turn then I agree that a new Morgan is in this sense not any longer competitive.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: howard] #617571
16/02/20 11:54 AM
16/02/20 11:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,641
Oreton, Shropshire
Shooter Offline
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Shooter  Offline
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Oreton, Shropshire
Originally Posted by howard
Lets see what the magazine test reports bring up when they get past their normal " this is new and therefore the greatest" approach obligatory in first tests.

I wrote a long article on here a while back when I tested and compared an Aero 8, an Evora and ( I think) an F type. To me it was clear then that the Aero 8 was a point and squirt machine not up to scratch when it came down to poor british surfaces and bends - great fun in a straight line but not in the same world as the Lotus. Dont think my comments were that well received amongst this group of Morgan groupies but it was my honest opinion. And it wasnt surprising given the level of technical resources available to MMC. They had done as well as they could with what they had.

The Plus 6 is clearly better. But I wonder how well MMC have done, how much resource they can throw at this sort of development. After all they havent got the resources or tech skills of a consultancy like Lotus. And its worth adding that they dont have the ability to tailor the engine utput which BMW will have designed to suit a fully electronified car. So what we see might be a modern version of the early Porsche Turbo issues - sudden surge of power as it comes on boost??



Well, I spent the day at Millbrook with a professional instructor with the GTN testing the car to the limit. It was a first Aero for him and he was surprised at how good it was. The Aero platform does seem to work and handle better the faster it is going and bends aren't the issue Howard suggests but I agree it doesn't like poor road surfaces.


Aero 8 GTN. #10

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Ray] #617572
16/02/20 11:54 AM
16/02/20 11:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,405
Lancashire, England
Stewart S Offline
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Posts: 11,405
Lancashire, England
Originally Posted by Ray
Originally Posted by ewn
Originally Posted by Dean-Royal
They had the same issue with the Aeros when first born, too much power and unfamiliarity.



The more I read of the bad boy reputation, the more I want to have a go!
me to.

And me

Must book in a test crash

Er
Sorry

Meant ‘test drive’


2008 XXVII Platform, Bugatti Blue Roadster 4 Seater
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: howard] #617576
16/02/20 12:18 PM
16/02/20 12:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 465
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pete757 Offline
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[quote=howard}...So what we see might be a modern version of the early Porsche Turbo issues - sudden surge of power as it comes on boost??[/quote]

Howard. There is not a sudden surge of power as it comes on boost... early Porsche Turbo's were huge and took a while to 'spin-up'... hence the 'sudden surge of power' that you refer to! But from my drive in December, I recall that it's a very linear power and torque delivery, very predictable. This BMW engine has had huge amounts of R&D behind it to make it feel almost normally aspirated in it's power delivery. However it's a lot of power/torque to put though a light rear end with no traction control, especially on wet roads. A good driver will learn how to respect and master this quickly... but it's not something an inexperienced driver could jump straight into and then firewall the right boot!


Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617585
16/02/20 01:32 PM
16/02/20 01:32 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 33
Lincoln.
T
The Flitting Offline
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Lincoln.
Where as I don't know the cause of these unfortunate crashes one of the;issues' I am experiencing with my Plus 6 is the relationship between the brake and accelerator pedal. The brake pedal has a fair travel distance before the brakes start being applied, this mean that the brake pedal is below the height of the accelerator before the brakes come one which can result that in the narrow cockpit (and with size 11 feet) it so very very easy for your braking foot to push down on the of of the accelerator as well as apply the brakes if your foot is not exactly square onto the brake pedal.

In an emergency braking situation it would be so easy to apply the accelerator as well as the brakes if you foot is even lightly off square. I can only imagine the consequences in a car with so much power and torque

Did a test on my and neighbours cars yesterday and found that on all of them the brakes were full applied before the brake pedal went below the top of the accelerator pedal. Have dropped a note to Morgan about this and hope a fix is found a.s.a.p

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: pete757] #617586
16/02/20 01:45 PM
16/02/20 01:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,916
Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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Suffolk, England
Originally Posted by pete757
[quote=howard}...So what we see might be a modern version of the early Porsche Turbo issues - sudden surge of power as it comes on boost??


Howard. There is not a sudden surge of power as it comes on boost... early Porsche Turbo's were huge and took a while to 'spin-up'... hence the 'sudden surge of power' that you refer to! But from my drive in December, I recall that it's a very linear power and torque delivery, very predictable. This BMW engine has had huge amounts of R&D behind it to make it feel almost normally aspirated in it's power delivery. However it's a lot of power/torque to put though a light rear end with no traction control, especially on wet roads. A good driver will learn how to respect and master this quickly... but it's not something an inexperienced driver could jump straight into and then firewall the right boot!
[/quote]
Fully agree , that was my impression. The car had more power than I felt safe to apply on a test drive. It seemed in control but there was a sense it could all easily go so wrong.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: John V6] #617587
16/02/20 02:01 PM
16/02/20 02:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,646
West Paris, France
pandy Offline
Needs to Get Out More!
pandy  Offline
Needs to Get Out More!

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,646
West Paris, France
How does that saying go ?

"With great power comes great responsibility".

I remember having a chat a few years ago with a chap in an Aero Plus 8 as we waited for a ferry in Dieppe.

He told me that he liked the car, but had a constant feeling that it was trying to kill him, which was not a sentiment he'd ever experienced with the Plus 4 he had owned beforehand.....

Massive power, light weight, short wheelbase, zero driver aids. It's not a hugely difficult equation to understand, but certainly a package which requires respect and circumspection from the person behind the wheel.


Giles. Mogless in Paris.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: The Flitting] #617588
16/02/20 02:02 PM
16/02/20 02:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 32,429
Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Devonshire
Originally Posted by The Flitting
Where as I don't know the cause of these unfortunate crashes one of the;issues' I am experiencing with my Plus 6 is the relationship between the brake and accelerator pedal. The brake pedal has a fair travel distance before the brakes start being applied, this mean that the brake pedal is below the height of the accelerator before the brakes come one which can result that in the narrow cockpit (and with size 11 feet) it so very very easy for your braking foot to push down on the of of the accelerator as well as apply the brakes if your foot is not exactly square onto the brake pedal.

In an emergency braking situation it would be so easy to apply the accelerator as well as the brakes if you foot is even lightly off square. I can only imagine the consequences in a car with so much power and torque

Did a test on my and neighbours cars yesterday and found that on all of them the brakes were full applied before the brake pedal went below the top of the accelerator pedal. Have dropped a note to Morgan about this and hope a fix is found a.s.a.p

That is a very good pointer from an owners perspective, thanks for that and may it serve as a timely warning for any trial jockeys at the dealers.
I guess these days everyone is use to one foot operation of these cars and tuck the left foot out of the way as I do on automatics.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617602
16/02/20 02:42 PM
16/02/20 02:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,716
Northamptonshire UK
S
SBM Offline
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SBM  Offline
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S

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Posts: 6,716
Northamptonshire UK
Or, you could simply move the braking foot a centimetre to the left in use..


Steve
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: SBM] #617607
16/02/20 02:53 PM
16/02/20 02:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,390
Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Graham, G4FUJ Offline
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Cheltenham, Glos. UK
Originally Posted by Stringers Best Mate
Or, you could simply move the braking foot a centimetre to the left in use..

Something I have to do in the MINI.
OK I'm not wearing driving shoes in that, but there is a decided lack of space between the two pedals and the brake actuation height is lower than the throttle pedal.


Graham (G4FUJ)

D8921 L44FOR '93 4/4 Giallo Fly 2 seat smile
'90 LR 90 SW
'09 Alfa Romeo MiTo
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617609
16/02/20 03:11 PM
16/02/20 03:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,293
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nick w Offline
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Originally Posted by MOG 615
Originally Posted by RobCol


The Plus 8 which wasn't available for test drives doesn't seem to have suffered the same problem.


My understanding is that Aero +8 also suffered a larger number of write-offs than is the case with trads, but perhaps they were not quite so public?

Again it is outside my area of expertise but i was informed this was due to the very short rear overhang (compared to the other Aero 8 variants) which made the tail end VERY tricky to catch when on the limit. All I know was that when I drove a demo car (the white one with a Union flag on the bonnet) I was really surprised when the VANOS system suddenly "dumped" a whole load of extra torque to the rear wheels at about 4.000 rpm. Luckily I was going up hill on a straight road at the time, otherwise it would have been a very different story to tell.

Strangely I had the opposite experience. On a factory demo day I drove an Aero Supersports, the roads were a little greasy, and it started to go sideways when I applied power. I had to be very careful. I then went out in an Aero +8 and it was altogether much more predictable and stable.
But with any (especially rear wheel drive) car with this sort of power a great deal of respect is required isn't it. I'm pretty sure a young person driving my Series one Roadster would get into trouble very quickly (or very quickly get into trouble). I think my age group were lucky. When we were young drivers the cars just weren't powerful enough so when I lost the MG Midget on a bend there was plenty of time to catch it and correct it. Thus we were eased into more powerful cars as time went on.
Nick

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: The Flitting] #617622
16/02/20 04:06 PM
16/02/20 04:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 488
Hertfordshire
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Obie Offline
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Hertfordshire
Originally Posted by The Flitting
Where as I don't know the cause of these unfortunate crashes one of the;issues' I am experiencing with my Plus 6 is the relationship between the brake and accelerator pedal. The brake pedal has a fair travel distance before the brakes start being applied, this mean that the brake pedal is below the height of the accelerator before the brakes come one which can result that in the narrow cockpit (and with size 11 feet) it so very very easy for your braking foot to push down on the of of the accelerator as well as apply the brakes if your foot is not exactly square onto the brake pedal.

In an emergency braking situation it would be so easy to apply the accelerator as well as the brakes if you foot is even lightly off square. I can only imagine the consequences in a car with so much power and torque

Did a test on my and neighbours cars yesterday and found that on all of them the brakes were full applied before the brake pedal went below the top of the accelerator pedal. Have dropped a note to Morgan about this and hope a fix is found a.s.a.p


Not saying this is the case with your vehicle but some cars have a brake throttle override system where the power is cut or reduced when braking.
Easy to test by left foot braking while on the gas, gently of course, don't want any more accidents!

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617641
16/02/20 05:28 PM
16/02/20 05:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,223
TheCustomer Offline
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I did wonder when the EVO coty year video includes them unintentionally spinning a Plus 6 - that's professional drivers, on a circuit they've been driving in multiple cars, in consistent conditions.

There was some talk in early road tests of the Plus 6 setup not quite being sorted. Morgan has form here, having not quite sorted the Aero 5 setup - being the first with anti-roll bars you'd have thought they would have wanted to get it spot on - but apparently left the setup team a week short of the time they needed. Maybe they cut the same corner on the Plus 6?

Will

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617646
16/02/20 05:38 PM
16/02/20 05:38 PM
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Posts: 244
returned OggieMogger
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Roady Offline
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Posts: 244
returned OggieMogger
A 'soft' brake feel and long travel were a couple of the things that put me off the P6.

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: The Flitting] #617651
16/02/20 06:00 PM
16/02/20 06:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,725
Staffordshire
IvorMog Online content
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Originally Posted by The Flitting
Where as I don't know the cause of these unfortunate crashes one of the;issues' I am experiencing with my Plus 6 is the relationship between the brake and accelerator pedal. The brake pedal has a fair travel distance before the brakes start being applied, this mean that the brake pedal is below the height of the accelerator before the brakes come one which can result that in the narrow cockpit (and with size 11 feet) it so very very easy for your braking foot to push down on the of of the accelerator as well as apply the brakes if your foot is not exactly square onto the brake pedal.

In an emergency braking situation it would be so easy to apply the accelerator as well as the brakes if you foot is even lightly off square. I can only imagine the consequences in a car with so much power and torque

Did a test on my and neighbours cars yesterday and found that on all of them the brakes were full applied before the brake pedal went below the top of the accelerator pedal. Have dropped a note to Morgan about this and hope a fix is found a.s.a.p


I find that, if one drives the car often enough, one quickly gets used to the pedal positions no matter how awkward they might feel at first.


Bob

2009 Black Roadster
1999 4/4 2 litre Zetec
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617654
16/02/20 06:12 PM
16/02/20 06:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,950
Norfolk
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The pedals in the MX5 are the worst positioned I have ever driven, the Alfa Stelvio brake pedal has no feel for about a quarter of the travel then bites abit too hard but you soon get used to these things and adapt. The Plus 8's pedals are perfect so I'm sure MMC can get them right on the Plus 6 with a little tinkering.

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617657
16/02/20 06:31 PM
16/02/20 06:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 857
Hampton Hill, Middx.
DavidR Online NoMood
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Just my thoughts, most of us are so cosseted by modern cars, they are comfortable, smooth and with all the electronic wizardry can correct our silliness before we even know we have reached it!

I'm sure the majority of performance car owners would have no problem, whereas some of the new target audience for the +6 have hopped straight out of their electronically moderated safety box and excpect the same from the new Mog.


David
Aero S4
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: DavidR] #617667
16/02/20 07:27 PM
16/02/20 07:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 320
West Dorset
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rid967 Offline
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R

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Originally Posted by DavidR
Just my thoughts, most of us are so cosseted by modern cars, they are comfortable, smooth and with all the electronic wizardry can correct our silliness before we even know we have reached it!

I'm sure the majority of performance car owners would have no problem, whereas some of the new target audience for the +6 have hopped straight out of their electronically moderated safety box and excpect the same from the new Mog.


Agree entirely. Perhaps Morgan need to revisit the lack of such aids. The Porsche Turbo from the 80s unfortunately acquired the reputation and label of “Widow Maker” due to its propensity to end up wrapped around trees due to unskilled drivers not having the right balance of speed and control. If there are more incidents with the Plus 6 and, dare I predict, major injuries, then it may give rise to a similar label being applied to the Morgan brand. The pending launch of the Plus 4 with a manual box and less BHP might address the problem as the combination of the auto box with all that power and no “aids” is a recipe for more disasters.


3.7 Roadster
Porsche 964 C2
JCW Mini Cooper S Cab
BMW F750GS
+4 4 1995-2002 / LM 62 +8 2002-07
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617670
16/02/20 07:33 PM
16/02/20 07:33 PM
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Posts: 10,279
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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I have never found the S2 or the Coupe to be vicious. The lighter weight over the back axle on the S2 means it slides earlier and more gently than the Coupe with the extra bodywork. This is a litytle masked as you can feed the power far more efficiently with the manual box in the S2.

If anything I find the nanny-tronics in the ML63 with 600+bhp far more annoying.
If you come off a cambered roundabout onto a main road in the wet (under power) the camber changes makes the damn thing think it has lost it and it cuts all power. Anyone following close behind suddenly has the sun blotted out and gets to see the supplier details on my number plate.

Accelerator pedals are not binary.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: rid967] #617671
16/02/20 07:42 PM
16/02/20 07:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,102
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
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Originally Posted by rid967
Perhaps Morgan need to revisit the lack of such aids.


Yes, given that the age demographic of P6 purchasers pretty much guarantees that their physical condition will not be tip top in terms of physical agility and reaction times, the apparent strategy of manufacturing cars which require advanced driving skills to avoid crashing does seem a bit counter productive.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Hamwich] #617681
16/02/20 08:43 PM
16/02/20 08:43 PM
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Posts: 1,996
NE Scotland
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I don’t really think the age of the owner has anything to do with it, the best drivers in the world are from all age groups. There’s a lot to be said for practicing beyond the limit driving now and then, just to see where those limits are.

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Stewart S] #617705
16/02/20 11:12 PM
16/02/20 11:12 PM
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Lancashire
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Originally Posted by Stewart S
Originally Posted by Ray
Originally Posted by ewn
Originally Posted by Dean-Royal
They had the same issue with the Aeros when first born, too much power and unfamiliarity.



The more I read of the bad boy reputation, the more I want to have a go!
me to.

And me

Must book in a test crash

Er
Sorry

Meant ‘test drive’


You'll be wanting a crash course then Stewart smile


Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Ewan] #617714
17/02/20 07:03 AM
17/02/20 07:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,102
Gloucestershire, UK
Hamwich Offline
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Originally Posted by ewn
I don’t really think the age of the owner has anything to do with it, the best drivers in the world are from all age groups. There’s a lot to be said for practicing beyond the limit driving now and then, just to see where those limits are.



It must just be me, then. I was never in anything like 'best drivers in the world' category, but I've noticed that my car handling skills are not as good now as they were when I was in my 40s. These days I compensate by slowing down a bit and giving myself more time, but that's quite handy for my licence anyway smile

I agree with practicing 'beyond the limit' driving, and that's exactly why (money aside) I wouldn't buy a P6. I can chuck my 4/4 all over the place with no concern that it's going to bite me in the bum if I'm millimetrically out of place with the throttle.


Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Hamwich] #617735
17/02/20 09:35 AM
17/02/20 09:35 AM
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Posts: 3,293
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nick w Offline
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Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by ewn
I don’t really think the age of the owner has anything to do with it, the best drivers in the world are from all age groups. There’s a lot to be said for practicing beyond the limit driving now and then, just to see where those limits are.



It must just be me, then. I was never in anything like 'best drivers in the world' category, but I've noticed that my car handling skills are not as good now as they were when I was in my 40s. These days I compensate by slowing down a bit and giving myself more time, but that's quite handy for my licence anyway smile

I agree with practicing 'beyond the limit' driving, and that's exactly why (money aside) I wouldn't buy a P6. I can chuck my 4/4 all over the place with no concern that it's going to bite me in the bum if I'm millimetrically out of place with the throttle.

I completely agree with this post Tim. I feel exactly the same.
Nick

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: The Flitting] #617739
17/02/20 09:48 AM
17/02/20 09:48 AM
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Posts: 6,017
People's Republic of South Yor...
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Originally Posted by The Flitting
Where as I don't know the cause of these unfortunate crashes one of the;issues' I am experiencing with my Plus 6 is the relationship between the brake and accelerator pedal. The brake pedal has a fair travel distance before the brakes start being applied, this mean that the brake pedal is below the height of the accelerator before the brakes come one which can result that in the narrow cockpit (and with size 11 feet) it so very very easy for your braking foot to push down on the of of the accelerator as well as apply the brakes if your foot is not exactly square onto the brake pedal.

In an emergency braking situation it would be so easy to apply the accelerator as well as the brakes if you foot is even lightly off square. I can only imagine the consequences in a car with so much power and torque

Did a test on my and neighbours cars yesterday and found that on all of them the brakes were full applied before the brake pedal went below the top of the accelerator pedal. Have dropped a note to Morgan about this and hope a fix is found a.s.a.p


Very interesting observation & could indeed be the cause of at least one of the recent PlusSix crashes


Jon M
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: nick w] #617745
17/02/20 10:29 AM
17/02/20 10:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,561
Northern Germany
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Originally Posted by nick w
Originally Posted by Hamwich
Originally Posted by ewn
I don’t really think the age of the owner has anything to do with it, the best drivers in the world are from all age groups. There’s a lot to be said for practicing beyond the limit driving now and then, just to see where those limits are.



It must just be me, then. I was never in anything like 'best drivers in the world' category, but I've noticed that my car handling skills are not as good now as they were when I was in my 40s. These days I compensate by slowing down a bit and giving myself more time, but that's quite handy for my licence anyway smile

I agree with practicing 'beyond the limit' driving, and that's exactly why (money aside) I wouldn't buy a P6. I can chuck my 4/4 all over the place with no concern that it's going to bite me in the bum if I'm millimetrically out of place with the throttle.

I completely agree with this post Tim. I feel exactly the same.
Nick



Also my thoughts about the Power (and the money)
woohoo


2005 4/4 1800ccm Duratec and a lot of HONDA CX500.......
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Alistair] #617863
17/02/20 06:25 PM
17/02/20 06:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,544
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Alistair
I have never found the S2 or the Coupe to be vicious. The lighter weight over the back axle on the S2 means it slides earlier and more gently than the Coupe with the extra bodywork. This is a little masked as you can feed the power far more efficiently with the manual box in the S2.
Accelerator pedals are not binary.


With the old ZZ3s it was quite easy to get the back end to step out a bit, I never felt that it was going to "bite" by going further than i wanted.
But since I put the MP Sport 4s on it feels as if it is glued down and I fear that if it goes it will "snap". I need an airfield to find out. At Castle Combe I was going as fast as I felt comfortable and the car felt glued to the track.

Talking to Henry Williams about the Plus 6 he felt that the car would need a revised suspension setup and different tyres to be a good track car, Morgan had tried to make it a civilised GT Road Car, not a sports car.
My feeling is that the known crashes all seem to have happened early into a drive, on cold, damp roads. So I think it needs all season or full winter tyres as well as a high level of understanding by the driver.

I was in the local Mercedes dealer today, chatting to Matt: he is one of the sales team and I've worked with him for close to 15 years. Mercedes has their new EQC demonstrator and it has been close to being wrecked twice. In each case the test driver has mashed the throttle, not understanding that the torque is instant and powerful and came close to ramming the vehicle in front. They are now much more wary who they let drive it. It is 402 hp and 490 lb-ft., 2.6 tons and 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. Unlike the equivalent GLC the initial acceleration is very rapid, then it tails off, the reverse of a ICE engine.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617900
17/02/20 09:10 PM
17/02/20 09:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,279
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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That is a good comparison point Peter.

If you put each of these cars (Aero8, P6 and EQC) on a rolling road and looked at the power and torque shapes it would show what I suspect is the root issue.

The P6 is lightweight, RWD, the autobox programming (is it reprogrammed from the BMW install?)

The V8 will have a traditional climbing curve left to right.
The P6 will have an almost vertical climb from 1200-1800 rpm followed by a software controlled flat torque plateau until 4000-5000.
The EQC will have a ramp starting at zero and going down from there with a single speed box.

In all cases you have to adapt. As a more mature audience our baseline is what we have had before. I figure the people growing up now will have learnt on hybrids and BEV's and so be used to the torque characteristics. I learnt on normal petrol/carb cars with flat spots then had to adapt the Renault 5 GT Turbo with a 2 second lag! That was a laugh on roundabouts.

Torque is what breaks traction with a bump. That's why I fitted the Cup2 tyres to the back of the Coupe. I wanted to give the backend a better grip level than the front to balance out the tendency to slide before the front starts to get a little nervous. It has improved it but it has also highlighted the lack of communication between the front and back if you push on hard. Road speed is not an issue and that's where I love the Aero's. The big lazy smooth torque curve makes it feel like a luxury. Track side it is just to soft.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617955
18/02/20 12:59 PM
18/02/20 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 931
Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
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Shropshire
As I have said before - with a Turbo powered car - keep the rev's above 3,000rpm - the torque curve is then flat.

This can be achieved even with an Auto box....


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Alistair] #617959
18/02/20 01:17 PM
18/02/20 01:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,544
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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These two images show just how different the +8 and Plus 6 are....

Let's start with the new Straight 6. Peak torque at 1380 rpm, then flat to 5000.
The power rises steadily, but is already significant at 2000 rpm.
[Linked Image]

Now the lazy N62 V8: nothing much below 2500 rpm, it isn't until 3000 or so that it "gets on the cam" and peaks at over 4000 rpm. Power rises steadily, but it isn't until around 5000 rpm that the engine is truly bonkers.

[Linked Image]

It is hard to imagine how anyone could get themselves into trouble, without trying, but the Plus Six will bite, hard, from 2000 rpm, which is all too easily found.
The Plus Four, when it arrives, will have a similar performance characteristic, just less of it.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #617978
18/02/20 04:28 PM
18/02/20 04:28 PM
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Posts: 1,950
Norfolk
PeterG Offline
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Both seem good fun to me

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: PeterG] #617990
18/02/20 06:16 PM
18/02/20 06:16 PM
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Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
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Originally Posted by PeterG
Both seem good fun to me


laugh2 laugh2


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Hamwich] #618005
18/02/20 08:34 PM
18/02/20 08:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,996
NE Scotland
Ewan Offline
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I don’t know where the limit might be for the plus 6, but I found out the hard way where they were on my Lotus, lesson well and truly learned.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618030
18/02/20 10:46 PM
18/02/20 10:46 PM
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Shropshire
MDS61 Offline
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Nasty bump, hope all involved were OK?


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618038
18/02/20 11:29 PM
18/02/20 11:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,143
South Yorks
Clipper Offline
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Learnt with the Aero it must be straight and steady after a turn before applying too much power or it will fishtail.


2021 Lapis Blue Plus 6 evil You know it makes sense! thinking





Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Ewan] #618052
19/02/20 07:21 AM
19/02/20 07:21 AM
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P
pete757 Offline
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Ouch!

Curiously, I sold my Lotus Evora to move into Morgan ownership!

I always thought the Evora was a stunning handling 'big Lotus Elise'. Very predicable even with 400 BHP! Yet on the same damp roads, that had me 'clenching' when I took the P6 out for a test drive!

I thought the P^ was a very light rear ended tail happy machine! GREAT fun in the right hands/dry roads I am sure... mine are no longer up to the task however! innocent

Last edited by pete757; 19/02/20 07:22 AM.

Dark Red 4/4 80th Anniversary
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618083
19/02/20 10:38 AM
19/02/20 10:38 AM
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Posts: 15,544
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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I learnt all about fishtailing in 1987 in Florida.
When we collected the rental car at Orlando airport the agent looked at my licence and said "you are from England, can you manage a stick shift?" Yes, I replied, why?
She said "I've got a car for you that I think you will enjoy".

Walked out to the carpark to find an almost new white Ford Mustang GT.
5.0L, 225 bhp, 300 ft lbs and a 4 speed box.
It was a hoot, just the right amount of power to get it to fishtail anywhere, especially if the road was a bit damp.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Peter J] #618087
19/02/20 11:08 AM
19/02/20 11:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,946
Surrey. UK
Neilda Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter J


It is hard to imagine how anyone could get themselves into trouble, without trying, but the Plus Six will bite, hard, from 2000 rpm, which is all too easily found.
The Plus Four, when it arrives, will have a similar performance characteristic, just less of it.


Interesting Peter - I feel sure that's the main issue.

Some here will know I had a nasty accident in my boat a few years ago.... the accident was caused by my inexperience at the helm of an extremely powerful boat - entirely my fault. The throttle went from 'peaceful' to 'nuclear Armageddon' in about 3 inches of travel. I hadn't had a boat previously and basically bought the equivalent of a Lamborghini as my first entree into boating. What could possibly go wrong?! Thankfully it was only me that was injured. I sold the boat.

With cars I gradually moved up from a a lowly 3 series to a Ford GT - so I knew to be gentle after years of slowly increasing performance.

If a new buyer purchases any high performance car, it is hoped they will have had something quick previously and know that throttle response is instant.

As you say, the Aero 8's are pussycats that only growl when poked hard.


+8 4.8
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618095
19/02/20 12:27 PM
19/02/20 12:27 PM
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Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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I thought I'd try to find performance curves for the engine Mercedes use in the AMG A35, this is a 2.0L twin scroll turbo, normal power output is 306 bhp, peak torque is 400mn at 3000 rpm.

The red lines are as standard, the blue a "Stage 1" re-map offered by an after market supplier. Tempting...

BUT the key point I wanted to make is that the torque curve shows a much more "traditional" shape, unlike the almost vertical one of the BMW. This makes the car easier to manage and the 4WD makes all the power more usable.

Take a look....

[Linked Image]


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618100
19/02/20 01:31 PM
19/02/20 01:31 PM
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Posts: 10,279
Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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I can feel your wallet twitching from here!


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Alistair] #618244
20/02/20 10:29 AM
20/02/20 10:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,544
Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Alistair
I can feel your wallet twitching from here!


Is it that obvious?

The local MB dealership that supplied the car is also the Brabus distributor for the south.
I've asked for pricing as Brabus do a similar package, approved by MB and without any impact on the warranty.

Some real temptation here...

https://www.brabus.com/en/tuning/overview/p/a-klasse/w-177/amg-a-35.html

The exhaust and spoiler are rather rasty....


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: The Flitting] #618305
20/02/20 05:38 PM
20/02/20 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,645
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howard Offline
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Originally Posted by The Flitting
Where as I don't know the cause of these unfortunate crashes one of the;issues' I am experiencing with my Plus 6 is the relationship between the brake and accelerator pedal. The brake pedal has a fair travel distance before the brakes start being applied, this mean that the brake pedal is below the height of the accelerator before the brakes come one which can result that in the narrow cockpit (and with size 11 feet) it so very very easy for your braking foot to push down on the of of the accelerator as well as apply the brakes if your foot is not exactly square onto the brake pedal.

In an emergency braking situation it would be so easy to apply the accelerator as well as the brakes if you foot is even lightly off square. I can only imagine the consequences in a car with so much power and torque

Did a test on my and neighbours cars yesterday and found that on all of them the brakes were full applied before the brake pedal went below the top of the accelerator pedal. Have dropped a note to Morgan about this and hope a fix is found a.s.a.p


I remember just that from my first test of a Roadster, the initial cars with the narrow footwell. I dont have long feet but I do have very wide ones ( G or H fitting shoe) so every time I applied the breake I also applies the accelerator. If that issue in a Plus 6 is combined with a BMW engine designed to develop torque lower down than a NA engine plus a light back end, then you can imagine what might happen.

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: howard] #618321
20/02/20 08:15 PM
20/02/20 08:15 PM
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Shropshire
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Shropshire
Originally Posted by howard
Originally Posted by The Flitting
Where as I don't know the cause of these unfortunate crashes one of the;issues' I am experiencing with my Plus 6 is the relationship between the brake and accelerator pedal. The brake pedal has a fair travel distance before the brakes start being applied, this mean that the brake pedal is below the height of the accelerator before the brakes come one which can result that in the narrow cockpit (and with size 11 feet) it so very very easy for your braking foot to push down on the of of the accelerator as well as apply the brakes if your foot is not exactly square onto the brake pedal.

In an emergency braking situation it would be so easy to apply the accelerator as well as the brakes if you foot is even lightly off square. I can only imagine the consequences in a car with so much power and torque

Did a test on my and neighbours cars yesterday and found that on all of them the brakes were full applied before the brake pedal went below the top of the accelerator pedal. Have dropped a note to Morgan about this and hope a fix is found a.s.a.p


I remember just that from my first test of a Roadster, the initial cars with the narrow footwell. I dont have long feet but I do have very wide ones ( G or H fitting shoe) so every time I applied the breake I also applies the accelerator. If that issue in a Plus 6 is combined with a BMW engine designed to develop torque lower down than a NA engine plus a light back end, then you can imagine what might happen.



Hi Howard, I don't think (with any modern car) certainly a BMW, you can now accelerate and brake at the same time, the electronic's "kick-in" so that only braking occurs.

I have tired with my current BMW.....obviously I am "assuming" the electronics are just transferred from BMW to Morgan, so this would not be possible??

I can 100% brake and accelerate with my Roadster...done it several times!!


Honesty means doing it right, even when no one is looking!

2004 Roadster S1 3.0 V6 gone!

Mark
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618884
24/02/20 08:24 PM
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Forget BHP - history is littered with high torque/low rpm cars being made available to the public with the same results pretty much every time.

Whilst I’ve not driven the P6 - there will be additional factors like - throttle butterfly speed, with throttle by wire, throttle butterfly speed in many cases is not matching the peddle (ie. closing slower in comfort mode). Gearbox programming for auto’s, the propensity to drop a cog or rev-hang in gear.... even with throttle peddle off I’ve been in other cars where they will actually speed up not slow down.

That’s before you get to the mechanical grip of tyres and suspension set-up.

As for Aero’s....... having tracked my S1.... it’s considerably better on a track pushed hard than on the road. What let’s it down is the Engine and Gearbox. The engine runs out of puff and does not have enough revs to play with and the gearbox is designed for a heavy saloon.




Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618914
25/02/20 08:00 AM
25/02/20 08:00 AM
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Worcestershire
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I’ve driven the plus-6 a number of times now and each time I get out I am more and more impressed and confident with its ability.

The issue is simple, the turbo unit boosts relatively early so you are getting pretty much max torque in an instant as opposed to torque building lineally in the NA units. That instant torque and low gear ratios of the 8 speed box, plus probably not the best tyre combo, easily over powers the rears giving wheel spin. With no traction control or a LSD the car quickly becomes a handful. The immediate reaction is to jump off the accelerator which then can make the car snatch and throw you in the opposite direction which is what I think has happened to some of those cars. The brave and more experienced keep the foot in and control the slide which is entirely possible as it’s a well sorted chassis.

As someone says above, it’s a car that’s needs respect but as you get to know the car it is a beauty and exhilarating not to engage with.


2012 M3W
2011 Aero Coupe
2018 Aero GT 8/8

Jon
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: vww1l] #618919
25/02/20 08:21 AM
25/02/20 08:21 AM
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East Anglia
madmax Offline
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Originally Posted by vww1l
I’ve driven the plus-6 a number of times now and each time I get out I am more and more impressed and confident with its ability.

The issue is simple, the turbo unit boosts relatively early so you are getting pretty much max torque in an instant as opposed to torque building lineally in the NA units. That instant torque and low gear ratios of the 8 speed box, plus probably not the best tyre combo, easily over powers the rears giving wheel spin. With no traction control or a LSD the car quickly becomes a handful. The immediate reaction is to jump off the accelerator which then can make the car snatch and throw you in the opposite direction which is what I think has happened to some of those cars. The brave and more experienced keep the foot in and control the slide which is entirely possible as it’s a well sorted chassis.

As someone says above, it’s a car that’s needs respect but as you get to know the car it is a beauty and exhilarating not to engage with.



A plus 6 isn't on your list of cars below your post so you don't own one ? Sounds like you are quite keen to drive them though ? Are you thinking of getting one ? From your comment about the drive experience it does sound a bit of a crazy torque laden car , one wonders how owners are coping with this ?


Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .


Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618938
25/02/20 10:26 AM
25/02/20 10:26 AM
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Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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Well if they have parted with their own money my guess is that they will learn not to ram the loud pedal into the fresh carpet hard in one go. Self preservation of the wallet has always worked well for me.
The power curves shown are with an open throttle so it does not HAVE to be that brutal in power on characteristic does it? Feed the pedal in smoothly and consider the usual aspects?

Tyre temp
Road temp and slime/diesel/rain coating
Drift angle
Room and impact absorbency of item in direct path of sideways travel!
Cost of insurance premium and NCB...

I guess we are all a bit over-coddled by the modern cars and 4WD experience so when something fruity does appear it comes as a bit of a shock.

Maybe Morgan could offer a one day circuit driving course to let new owners experience the sticky bit of the edges up front prior to handing the car over.
I always think you learn a lot about a car by overstepping the mark and driving badly so that when you then drive normally you are at least a little ready for the slime covered road.
It would be good for Morgan to include this a bit like AMG does for the first owner of one of it's nutter-wagons.


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Alistair] #618946
25/02/20 11:27 AM
25/02/20 11:27 AM
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Salisbury, UK
Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by Alistair
..................... a bit like AMG does for the first owner of one of it's nutter-wagons.


Gosh, we have a Morgan Plus 8 and 2 nutter wagons...

Does that mean I'm completely nuts? somestick


Hope so... hide


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618947
25/02/20 11:31 AM
25/02/20 11:31 AM
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Bristol
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I have always found that my short legs provided a higher degree of protection compared with electronic aids - especially when combined with a long travel throttle pedal.

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #618982
25/02/20 03:30 PM
25/02/20 03:30 PM
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Hampshire
Alistair Offline
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Not saying anything - just leaving this here.....

[Linked Image]


Everyone loves a Morgan. Even me, unless it's broken again.
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Alistair] #619042
25/02/20 10:13 PM
25/02/20 10:13 PM
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Mandello del Lario
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Mandello del Lario
Originally Posted by Alistair
Not saying anything - just leaving this here.....

[Linked Image]

Yummm!

Though could you post one with dark chocolate next time wink


Peter

[Linked Image]
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: madmax] #619048
25/02/20 11:25 PM
25/02/20 11:25 PM
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Worcestershire
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No I don’t own one but have spent a couple of weeks driving some of the early factory cars. I’m more of an aero kind of guy and an NA addict but I do respect the plus 6 a bit more each time I drive one. It’s an absolute rocket ship. That said, it only goes as fast as you ask it and will happily tootle along in a big gear at sensible speeds also. Just be very ready if you poke it. Someone else mentions the fact most of us are used to driver aids now and modern cars are inherently easy to drive but the tech underneath is doing all the work to keep you in a straight line. What I love about my Morgan’s Ian it’s just you doing that job. I am sure it’s a car you will learn to trust and get lots of performance out of.


2012 M3W
2011 Aero Coupe
2018 Aero GT 8/8

Jon
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #619482
28/02/20 10:10 AM
28/02/20 10:10 AM
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Llanelli
sospan Online happy
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Llanelli
The biggest “danger” is the driver. As I posted elsewhere, who the **** jumps into a previously untried car , especially one with power, and drives it “like you stole it” from the word go? Pistonheads driving gods would.
Surely you treat it with respect and build up confidence?
I changed from a 1993 4/4 to a 2002 Plus8. The test drive started gently and gradually, as the feel increased, it was tested. BUT, not to the extreme. Gears moved through, revs explored, response on leaving bends tested. After buying it it took a while to get out of the torque experience and driving in an “auto mode “ manner to one where it was DRIVEN . When testing a car you get a feel for it and stops short of buttock clenching moments realising there is more to come with EXPERIENCE.
So, the Plus6 has had crashes on test drives? I blame the driver and salesman. Unfortunately ability often fails to match reality. A driver who can’t empathise with a car should consider staying away. Perhaps the Plus4 would be a better option for many but still need care?
I am itching to try a Plus6.
£££££££ is the pre test barrier though. If the Plus4 £ falls within sensible( !!!) man maths territory then a test would possibly clinch it depending on how it compares to my Plus8.


Red Plus8
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #620397
03/03/20 08:24 PM
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P Dron Offline
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Does anyone have any information on the insurance ratings of the new CX cars? It seems to me that while the Trads can often be cobbled back together after an accident, the likelihood of a write-off is substantially greater with the new chassis.

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #620682
04/03/20 10:00 PM
04/03/20 10:00 PM
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Devonshire
+8Rich Offline
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Give Hiscox a call they'll know.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #622217
11/03/20 10:05 PM
11/03/20 10:05 PM
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Posts: 270
Devon, UK
vincentvg Offline
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Met a very pleasant gent today, having some minor tweaks to his gleaming new Plus 6 at Berrybrook. Asked him how he liked it - whereupon he remarked that it was "his second Plus 6". I said "Oh, you had a Roadster previously you mean?" Whereupon he confided that he wrote the first +6 off. Apparently it happened on a straight road in the wet: he reckons he accelerated to join a dual carriageway from the slip road (as I understand it), in the wet, and the 'box jumped down 2 gears and that was the end of that!

"Gobsmacked" hardly covers my surprise! Think his must be the silver write-off pictured on another thread here. Poor chap!

I wouldn't be looking forward to my next insurance renewal much if it was me!


Nick
Connaught Green Roadster S3 V6
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #638927
20/05/20 09:05 PM
20/05/20 09:05 PM
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No mention of any real problems with the CX cars yet , some of them must be clicking up the miles (k's) by now so it appears that the factory has done a good development job on them. Or are the owners not TM types ?


99 plus 8 indigo
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #638938
20/05/20 09:37 PM
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+8Rich Offline
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Nobody has been allowed anywhere really for a couple of months Murray which is when the garage queens come out to play so maybe not representative as yet, wait till they get unleashed and I for one am hoping they will take the new customers out on a familiarisation drive as a minimum as it's been bad PR thus far.


Regards Richard

1999 Indigo Blue +8
2009 4/4 Sport Green prev
1993 Connaught Green +8 prev





Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #638942
20/05/20 10:06 PM
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Co Wexford, Ireland
Robbie Offline
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I think a lot of the development was done either by BMW or by Morgan under their watchful eye - at least as far as I heard, the plus six and plus four were at BMW’s test location for over 6 months!!


Robbie
2021 Plus Four -- Helga
211-WX-1433

"Fettlebodge"--A chief of the PaddyMogs
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: P Dron] #639107
21/05/20 04:20 PM
21/05/20 04:20 PM
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Peter J Offline
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Originally Posted by P Dron

Does anyone have any information on the insurance ratings of the new CX cars? It seems to me that while the Trads can often be cobbled back together after an accident, the likelihood of a write-off is substantially greater with the new chassis.


No greater than the Aero platform, I'd have thought....
I pay £560 for the Plus 8, based on an agreed value of £69,000 and 5000 miles a year, with me only as the driver.
A new Plus Six will be more, because of the value, a new Plus Four a bit less.


Peter,
66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S
No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...

Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Peter J] #639115
21/05/20 04:41 PM
21/05/20 04:41 PM
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Devon, UK
vincentvg Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by P Dron

Does anyone have any information on the insurance ratings of the new CX cars? It seems to me that while the Trads can often be cobbled back together after an accident, the likelihood of a write-off is substantially greater with the new chassis.


No greater than the Aero platform, I'd have thought....
I pay £560 for the Plus 8, based on an agreed value of £69,000 and 5000 miles a year, with me only as the driver.
A new Plus Six will be more, because of the value, a new Plus Four a bit less.

...unless you happen to be on your 2nd Plus Six - in which case they might want a little more next renewal innocent


Nick
Connaught Green Roadster S3 V6
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: Peter J] #639134
21/05/20 05:36 PM
21/05/20 05:36 PM
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Kent & Dorset, UK
twotribes Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter J
Originally Posted by P Dron

Does anyone have any information on the insurance ratings of the new CX cars? It seems to me that while the Trads can often be cobbled back together after an accident, the likelihood of a write-off is substantially greater with the new chassis.


No greater than the Aero platform, I'd have thought....
I pay £560 for the Plus 8, based on an agreed value of £69,000 and 5000 miles a year, with me only as the driver.
A new Plus Six will be more, because of the value, a new Plus Four a bit less.


That's logical Peter - but since when did insurance underwriters put logic above claims data as it emerges?

I suspect the new CX chassis cars will have a worse initial claims history than the Aero-chassis cars due to the subtly different ownership demographic - the "I always promised myself one of these" buyers who find they are unwittingly sitting in the most powerful thing they've ever driven, compared with (and I generalise) an Aero owner who probably has more powerful toys in the stable, or has done in the past.


Stuart
"There's no skill substitute like cubic inches."
Re: 3 Write-Offs? [Re: MOG 615] #639143
21/05/20 06:18 PM
21/05/20 06:18 PM
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Suffolk, England
John V6 Offline
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£280 for my 3l Roadster with agreed value, legal cover & Morgan rescue.


JohnV6
2014 Brooklands Edition Roadster "Brookland's Belle" #5 of 50
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