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Starter Motor - which one #618665
23/02/20 06:32 PM
23/02/20 06:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 150
Salisbury, England
D
DaveK Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
DaveK  Offline OP
L - Learner Plates On
D

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 150
Salisbury, England
I'm going to start putting the MOG back together and my thinking has turned to my starter motor. The MOG is fitted with a Crossflow engine. It currently has a classic
'Bendix ' style starter motor with a separate starter solenoid. The problem with this is that it is bolted onto the bulkhead. Can I fit a 'Actuated' which has the solenoid built onto thar the starter motor. Is it possible to get a updated starter? If yes does anyone out in Talk Morgan world know which one?


Navy Dave
1976 Morgan 4/4
Re: Starter Motor - which one [Re: DaveK] #618668
23/02/20 06:46 PM
23/02/20 06:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 737
A
Arwyn Williams Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
Arwyn Williams  Offline
Talk Morgan Regular
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 737
I've recently changed the starter motor from inertia to pre engagedon my 1971 4/4 following a 5 speed gearbox conversion.

The ring gear on my inertia starter ring gear (105 teeth) was pretty chewed up plus the face was a bit scored.

In my spares pile I had a late Crossflow flywheel of the right weight but with a 135 teeth pre engaged ring gear.

I was able to get an upgraded Sierra/Capri pre engaged starter motor for less than £80 quid from AAP in Oldham

I left the solenoid on the bulkhead and ran a wire from the starter motor feed to the starter motor solenoid with absolutely no problems!

Drop us a PM and I'll send a couple of photos to explain!

Arwyn

Re: Starter Motor - which one [Re: DaveK] #618670
23/02/20 07:08 PM
23/02/20 07:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Richard Wood  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
If changing over to pre-engaged piggy back solenoid style starter it's far better to remove the old remote solenoid if only electrically. If you don't you have an extra unnecessary link in the high current chain, increasing unreliability from extra connections and undoubtedly causing a volt drop of some degree.

When adding cable for solenoid trigger ensure its around 5-6mm2, as the solenoid alone takes around 30 amps.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom
Re: Starter Motor - which one [Re: DaveK] #618671
23/02/20 07:12 PM
23/02/20 07:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 723
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Luddite Offline
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Luddite  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 723
Been a long time since I messed with an old style starter, though the bendix engages from the gearbox side of the ring gear which as best as I can I remember the teeth had chamfered edges to match a similar chamfer on the bendix. Changing to a pre-engage starter would perhaps equate to the starter dog meeting square edged teeth and thus perhaps inducing a bit of wear...?

Re: Starter Motor - which one [Re: Luddite] #618675
23/02/20 07:29 PM
23/02/20 07:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 737
A
Arwyn Williams Offline
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Arwyn Williams  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 737
I don't think its possible to run a standard Ford pattern pre engaged starter motor on an inertia ring gear.

My bad - a standard Ford crossflow ring gear with an inertia starter has 110 teeth, pre engaged types have either 132 or 135 teeth.

At best the damage will be to the starter motor pinion, at worst to the ring gear, which means an engine out job to change

I doubt the solenoid on my new starter motor draws as much as 30 amp. I know, I checked when I span the engine over on the starter to get the oil pressure up prior to start up. The body of the motor got slightly warm but the solenoid trigger cable was unaffected.

Not too sure about the WOSP type starters!

Arwyn

Last edited by Arwyn Williams; 23/02/20 07:36 PM.
Re: Starter Motor - which one [Re: DaveK] #618688
23/02/20 08:19 PM
23/02/20 08:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,112
Northants, UK
TBM Online NoMood
Has a lot to Say!
TBM  Online NoMood
Has a lot to Say!

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,112
Northants, UK
This will do the job, but at a price....

Powerlite Starter


1972 4/4 4 seater
Too many ratty motorbikes
Re: Starter Motor - which one [Re: DaveK] #618689
23/02/20 08:27 PM
23/02/20 08:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,204
Powick
tmg513 Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
tmg513  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,204
Powick
https://www.burtonpower.com/parts-b...ation/starter-motors.html?appl_engine=17

I fitted a Burtonpower item about a dozen years ago.


1972 4/4 2 Seater
Re: Starter Motor - which one [Re: Arwyn Williams] #618702
23/02/20 09:18 PM
23/02/20 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Richard Wood Offline
Talk Morgan Expert
Richard Wood  Offline
Talk Morgan Expert

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,390
East Harling, Norfolk UK
Originally Posted by Arwyn Williams
I don't think its possible to run a standard Ford pattern pre engaged starter motor on an inertia ring gear.

My bad - a standard Ford crossflow ring gear with an inertia starter has 110 teeth, pre engaged types have either 132 or 135 teeth.

At best the damage will be to the starter motor pinion, at worst to the ring gear, which means an engine out job to change

I doubt the solenoid on my new starter motor draws as much as 30 amp. I know, I checked when I span the engine over on the starter to get the oil pressure up prior to start up. The body of the motor got slightly warm but the solenoid trigger cable was unaffected.

Not too sure about the WOSP type starters!

Arwyn


The piggy back solenoid has in fact two coils. One to engage starter pinion against return spring and a second to hold the engagement whilst maintaining current to starter motor itself. I just wanted to make clear that the current required by the solenoid is not insignificant and benefits from having a heavier than elsewhere gauge cable.

Regarding the loop from main starter feed to trigger, whilst this works it's bad practice for reasons given. My Land Rover when converted to diesel by a previous owner had similar mod, now corrected.


Richard

2018 Roadster - Red/Magnolia - "Morton"
1966 Land Rover series 2a SWB
1960 Velocette Venom

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